NL100 - trips on river, overbet? - Page 2

basically when most villains 3 bet here and check this flop they're either thinking "fuck i have AKo and this board helps this dudes calling range a ton so i'll just check to give up" or "looks like i've got away with 3 betting 67,87,910 etc., I'll check call this flop this flop because some turns strengthen my range and I don't want to get blown off if i have the best hand."
So most of the times when you bet, villain is going to fold because he checked to give up, or call down with a marginal hand with SD value. By not betting the flop you miss the chance to win a larger size pot if villain was planning on calling down on all safe looking cards.

But hey I could be wrong, and be getting owned by villain doing some fancy play syndrom...but not likely.

This is a good spot to bet the flop,turn and river. As played dont overbet the river, the guy has a weak range that is very hard for him to call even a small bet, much less an overbet.

On February 04 2010 02:58 EvilSky wrote: This is a good spot to bet the flop,turn and river. As played dont overbet the river, the guy has a weak range that is very hard for him to call even a small bet, much less an overbet.

That implies that we will be over betting 100% with a weak hand right?

On February 04 2010 04:26 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Show nested quote + On February 04 2010 02:58 EvilSky wrote: This is a good spot to bet the flop,turn and river. As played dont overbet the river, the guy has a weak range that is very hard for him to call even a small bet, much less an overbet. That implies that we will be over betting 100% with a weak hand right?

as i said, taking this kind of line w AQ wouldnt be to terrible vs a normal nit reg

but an overbet isnt even needed on the riv w an airball

On February 04 2010 04:26 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Show nested quote + On February 04 2010 02:58 EvilSky wrote: This is a good spot to bet the flop,turn and river. As played dont overbet the river, the guy has a weak range that is very hard for him to call even a small bet, much less an overbet. That implies that we will be over betting 100% with a weak hand right?

Fuck no, why would it imply that¿?

On February 04 2010 04:51 EvilSky wrote: Show nested quote + On February 04 2010 04:26 LemOn[5thF] wrote:   On February 04 2010 02:58 EvilSky wrote: This is a good spot to bet the flop,turn and river. As played dont overbet the river, the guy has a weak range that is very hard for him to call even a small bet, much less an overbet. That implies that we will be over betting 100% with a weak hand right? Fuck no, why would it imply that¿?

Well if you don't expect a call when you overbet (You said that he is much less likely to call an overbet) , then why not do it?

You don't value overbet because he never calls, but you wouldn't bluff overbet? Please elaborate.

On February 04 2010 05:48 LemOn[5thF] wrote: Show nested quote + On February 04 2010 04:51 EvilSky wrote:   On February 04 2010 04:26 LemOn[5thF] wrote:   On February 04 2010 02:58 EvilSky wrote: This is a good spot to bet the flop,turn and river. As played dont overbet the river, the guy has a weak range that is very hard for him to call even a small bet, much less an overbet. That implies that we will be over betting 100% with a weak hand right? Fuck no, why would it imply that¿? Well if you don't expect a call when you overbet (You said that he is much less likely to call an overbet) , then why not do it? You don't value overbet because he never calls, but you wouldn't bluff overbet? Please elaborate.

Apart from the fact it would be grossly imbalanced there is another reason why that wouldnt be optimal, just think about it, imagine you were deeper.

its obv a gross imbalanced play but after playing flop like he did and with a bad/aggro image I think shove will get called by some players. I just don't think his calling range changes much from a psb to shove (hes usually folding) if hes out to get leveld

rep being tilted and make this work

ok fuck i admit its terrible but i just figured disregarding balance might as well be opportunistic with the rivered nuts if this guy might station up on a shove a decent % of the time he would have called a regular bet

On February 04 2010 06:00 EvilSky wrote: Show nested quote + On February 04 2010 05:48 LemOn[5thF] wrote:   On February 04 2010 04:51 EvilSky wrote:   On February 04 2010 04:26 LemOn[5thF] wrote:   On February 04 2010 02:58 EvilSky wrote: This is a good spot to bet the flop,turn and river. As played dont overbet the river, the guy has a weak range that is very hard for him to call even a small bet, much less an overbet. That implies that we will be over betting 100% with a weak hand right? Fuck no, why would it imply that¿? Well if you don't expect a call when you overbet (You said that he is much less likely to call an overbet) , then why not do it? You don't value overbet because he never calls, but you wouldn't bluff overbet? Please elaborate. Apart from the fact it would be grossly imbalanced there is another reason why that wouldnt be optimal, just think about it, imagine you were deeper.

don't think it would be an optimal bluff cause you could get similar or even more folds out of a standard bet or slight overbet.... but what about being deep that doesn't have to do with balance? shitting on urself if he rivered a straight (!?!wtf? doubt it) or just calls with w/e. i mean shove gets worse and worse the deeper you get if it doesn't fold out more hands the more u put in

bet 16 flop 32 turn then shove river.

Im a tourney player trying to move into cash games which has been a bit rough for me in the past im not used to the deep stack play. Also new to poker forums. In my experience and in my research I dont understand why you would want to make a huge pot of this hand. On the flop I would have had to bet. But if you run down the hands that this guy might have had to reraise you pre flop barring complete bs then what may he have? Any pair AK AQ KQ?(Maybe a little loose on the last 2).

That flop looks pretty good for low pairs and he did check into you after the being the aggressor post flop. But betting the flop and checking the turn could slow him down and limit the size of the pot if he is holding a big pair AA KK QQ or if he flopped his set. 99 88 66. So I would think the wisest thing to do would be since you re in position, want to get AK or AQ out and half of the pairs out have you beat at this point.

REMEMBER YOU ONLY HAVE A PAIR OF JACKS so far.

Bet 3/4 up to the pot on the flop, charge the draws and see where he stands.

If called check the turn, dont make a huge pot out of a pair, you re leaning towards committing yourself if he does have you smashed at this point. You are either barely ahead or way behind.

So flop 22$ bet of 16-20$ called. ( 62 Blinds in the pot now, getting kind of big for only a middle pair, any pair for that matter.)

Check turn.

And yay river you outdrew any hand you could have pinned your opponent on. Had you not caught your jack you would have to play this street very cautiously and let it go for a big bet.

But you got lucky and caught a big hand, if he has a straight at this point then he got there in a weird way have to pay him off.

62 bets out there you have about 87 at this point and he 130 something, too lazy to scroll up. If he bets into you you can push it all in and if he check you can still get the majority of your chips in there, say a bet of 3/4 - Full pot again. push 50 and you controlled this pot from getting out of hand with just a pair and still get paid when you make it on the river.

... Thats my take on it atleast im far from experienced in cash games though.

Oh God, why does everyone think it's ok to thrash a guy as soon as Tom does?

Yea sure Tom is right on all accounts and the hand is played badly (although, I don't feel that the flopcheck is as bad as some people says, but it's still fairly bad). However, a lot of the comments here are as dumb or dumber then the original hand.

On February 06 2010 06:05 DustySwedeDude wrote: Oh God, why does everyone think it's ok to thrash a guy as soon as Tom does? Yea sure Tom is right on all accounts and the hand is played badly (although, I don't feel that the flopcheck is as bad as some people says, but it's still fairly bad). However, a lot of the comments here are as dumb or dumber then the original hand.

Mob mentallity. I hope my comments wen't interpreted as trashing :0 I'm very critical of a lot of hands, I think a lot of people play the hand like hero did, I see these kind of line very often - people betting half pot and then overbetting the river, and it's always some tight player with the nuts

On February 06 2010 06:05 DustySwedeDude wrote: Oh God, why does everyone think it's ok to thrash a guy as soon as Tom does? Yea sure Tom is right on all accounts and the hand is played badly (although, I don't feel that the flopcheck is as bad as some people says, but it's still fairly bad). However, a lot of the comments here are as dumb or dumber then the original hand.

It doesn't really matter if it's Tom; it's the second anyone that isn't at microstakes says, "LOL RUSRS"