Real Conspiracy(healthcare bill) - Page 3

On December 21 2009 07:10 SakiSaki wrote: Show nested quote + On December 21 2009 05:10 Baal wrote: Your current economy cannot withstand it, it is going to collapse that is certain. quoting for future inyourfacements

To me? when it doesnt collapse?

Lol what, the government has spent around 2 trillion in the last years, it doesnt even need the extra trillion they are about to spend to collapse, the inflation effect of the bailouts hasnt fully kicked in yet, inject another trillion out of nowhere and the worth of the dollar will plummet.

You as people who hold large quantities in dollar should be really against another trillion inflation hit, or just watch ur bankroll loose half its value in a few weeks.

This conspiracy has to be true because its real. Apparently.

On December 21 2009 02:44 Xenocidegs wrote: Passing this healthcare bill is essential to improving and fixing healthcare in America today. At the moment our healthcare system is a completely and utterly broken for profit system that puts profit in front of the overall welfare of the American people. While I would like to eventually see a mandatory public healthcare system put into place due to the efficiency and cost effectiveness that such a plan would generate, the fact remains that lobbyists who are paid for by the profits of the health care industry harness far too much power in controlling both political and public opinions to get such a plan passed. However, the bill that is about to be passed will be an enormous first step in ultimately fixing the horrible practices that our health care industry currently participates in and I, for one, am glad it is getting passed even if it is being forced through the senate on party lines alone. Edit: The only reason this bill is being forcefully passed in such a manner is because of the insane filibuster rule in the first place that allows someone to waste EVERYONES time by talking until people give up on even voting in the damn bill in the first place. If it were not for the filibuster this bill would have been passed without nearly as much effort and would not have been subject to so many compromises and nitpickings that have caused public support to shift in the first place.

Agreed.

On December 21 2009 14:24 Sicks Macks wrote: Show nested quote + On December 21 2009 14:13 asdf2000 wrote: anyone who is against public health care is basically a horribly selfish person Or they believe that the efficiency/incentive gains from a private health care system trump the importance of covering every single person.

I hope we can both agree that they only think this because they or someone they love isn't in such a position.

On December 21 2009 04:18 woodbrave1 wrote: Show nested quote + On December 21 2009 03:18 Xenocidegs wrote: Woodbrave your youtube video fails to address issues such as pre-existing healthcare conditions that people must live with and would bankrupt the average american citizen such as Diabetes, Cancer, any sort of unexpected major surgery. I agree that healthcare costs are way above what they should be but I don't believe a free market system for healthcare is optimal for society. If you compare average healthcare costs around the world you would find that most public health systems are actually very efficient and have much lower average costs for one primary reason that people overlook: preventative healthcare. Having regular checkups and physical exams allows medical professionals to catch many diseases or complications early and stop or prevent any further symptoms that would cost tens of thousands of dollars in the future if neglected. One other point I would like to address is the fact that health insurance started in the first place due to workers in high risk job environments recognizing a serious injury would financially ruin them and thus pooled their money and thus spread out cost amongst themselves so they could "insure" that their livelihood would not be ruined in the event of physical misfortune. I view public healthcare as an extension of this belief that social welfare is greatly improved when everyone shares the overall cost of healthcare since disease and physical accidents can happen to anyone and without warning. One should not have to bankrupt their life savings because they were unable to acquire insurance due to a pre-existing condition that they were unfortunate enough to be born with or because some freak accident caused them to break their back, etc. do you have like some sick person in your family, you don't want to pay for so you want gov healthcare so they can get it for free, but not really free, just cheaper than it would of cost you?

Have you like, ever even had to use healthcare beyond going to the doctor with the flu? Like, do you just sit there and think that the system works perfectly because you yourself have never had to actually rely upon it for your life?

we have public healthcare in the UK and it rules! I seen what other countries have and it SUCKS. sucks bad.

you Americans complaining are just trying to reason your selfishness and lack of caring for fellow human beings.

the discussion is not whether it is a good think for people or not imo, its just that how is it that a bankrupt country will afford all of this... lol this is madness, they can only be deliberately trying to fuck the world over which supposedly is in their agendas to do so

Have a Canadian residency, and just go to US hospitals. Canada will still cover the tab and you won't have the wait right?

only ignorant americans can be happy with this measure seeing as they wont even benefit from it because the army will be on the streets before they know it

On December 21 2009 17:25 tapatapaz wrote: the discussion is not whether it is a good think for people or not imo, its just that how is it that a bankrupt country will afford all of this... lol this is madness, they can only be deliberately trying to fuck the world over which supposedly is in their agendas to do so

Exactly why does Travis keeps replying to dumb post and totally ignores my multiple posts saying that it is absolutely stupid to start a 1 trillion project on the worst crisis in 80 years.

On December 21 2009 17:29 tapatapaz wrote: only ignorant americans can be happy with this measure seeing as they wont even benefit from it because the army will be on the streets before they know it

prove it
u know we do have taxes here, right?
so show me your statistics to back up what you are saying.

prove me it wont? ..
this is common sense, when someone is in A LOT of debt they dont raise their houses spending, they cut it

edit: IF they want to make things ok

On December 21 2009 17:34 Baal wrote: Show nested quote + On December 21 2009 17:25 tapatapaz wrote: the discussion is not whether it is a good think for people or not imo, its just that how is it that a bankrupt country will afford all of this... lol this is madness, they can only be deliberately trying to fuck the world over which supposedly is in their agendas to do so Exactly why does Travis keeps replying to dumb post and totally ignores my multiple posts saying that it is absolutely stupid to start a 1 trillion project on the worst crisis in 80 years.

What I have read is that if there is a small raise in taxes to support the health care bill, it will help many low income families in that they will have to spend less on these taxes than they would on medical bills in the first place.

And rich people are rich, they can afford it.

On December 21 2009 17:44 asdf2000 wrote: Show nested quote + On December 21 2009 17:34 Baal wrote:   On December 21 2009 17:25 tapatapaz wrote: the discussion is not whether it is a good think for people or not imo, its just that how is it that a bankrupt country will afford all of this... lol this is madness, they can only be deliberately trying to fuck the world over which supposedly is in their agendas to do so Exactly why does Travis keeps replying to dumb post and totally ignores my multiple posts saying that it is absolutely stupid to start a 1 trillion project on the worst crisis in 80 years. What I have read is that if there is a small raise in taxes to support the health care bill, it will help many low income families in that they will have to spend less on these taxes than they would on medical bills in the first place. And rich people are rich, they can afford it.

Do you live in a cave or something?, The american economy is fucked and its not getting better, Obama instead of cutting the overblown expenses is spending even at a higher rate than George Bush you are several trillions in debt to the FED and you cant even afford the interests anymore, you are also still spewing hundreds of billions in Irak and will spew some more in Afghanistan soon, the US economy is very shaky to say the least and ur only still standing because China hasnt "panicked" and decided to cut their losses selling the dollars they have, cuz if one day they choose to, u will pretty much be the next Iceland

its a never ending argument both systems have major flaws, public will prevail though in america eventually though since its more equal really.

Like asdf said.

It should all be covered by a tax raise and not be a 1 trillion project. Works fine everywhere, so simple.

its not about the flaws of the systems its about the god damn economy, stop posting the same thing.

Also how can people claim that people defend the private system because of personal interests and not realize the same happens for the public healthcare system, first of all get this straight, none of those sides give a flying fuck about your health, its about their wallets.

baal you don't seem to be acknowledging what i am saying

accoridng to wikipedia the federal budget of the U.S. is around 3 trillion
so then we are going to pay another 1 trillion in taxes

this means that low and maybe middle class families may actually save money. they will be paying less money in taxes than they would for their health care anyways. the ones that probably wouldn't save money are the wealthy, but they can afford it.

On December 21 2009 17:43 tapatapaz wrote: prove me it wont? .. this is common sense, when someone is in A LOT of debt they dont raise their houses spending, they cut it edit: IF they want to make things ok

Common sense is that people still pays just less if they want to choose the government option and that to me is an income source. That's a common sense to me. I would ideally choose a single payer option if it's there. I think that is the best shot at getting the debt down apart from pulling from Iraq and other random wars.

American people spent 3 trillion dollars in 2008 to private health care companies and made those corporation rich while they refuse to cover you if you have preexisting conditions, or if you are above certain age with certain diseases, and many other BS restrictions. I would rather that this 3 trillion goes to the government option that ways at least if they don't cover you - they are easier to hold accountable.

The Office of the Actuary (OACT) of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services publishes data on total health care spending in the United States, including both historical levels and future projections.[34] In 2007, the U.S. spent $2.26 trillion on health care, or $7,439 per person, up from $2.1 trillion, or $7,026 per capita, the previous year.[35] Spending in 2006 represented 16% of GDP, an increase of 6.7% over 2004 spending. Growth in spending is projected to average 6.7% annually over the period 2007 through 2017. Health insurance costs are rising faster than wages or inflation, and medical causes were cited by about half of bankruptcy filers in the United States in 2001.

On December 21 2009 17:57 asdf2000 wrote: baal you don't seem to be acknowledging what i am saying accoridng to wikipedia the federal budget of the U.S. is around 3 trillion so then we are going to pay another 1 trillion in taxes this means that low and maybe middle class families may actually save money. they will be paying less money in taxes than they would for their health care anyways. the ones that probably wouldn't save money are the wealthy, but they can afford it.

You are totally clueless if you believe the truly wealthy is going to pay shit, its going to be the higher mid class that is going to shallow this and its the most productive in non-parasitic ways (unlike the truly wealthy) social class.

But why am i going into details, if you think right now, in the midst of this huge crisis that is worsening is the right time to apply a trillion dollar social program, then you have no idea what you are talking about.

It doesnt matter where the money comes from, it will never come from the people it should (bankers, big CEOs etc), the least thing your country needs right now is spend more, you need to spend less and reduce the size of your retarded huge government, failing to do is proving to be the downfall of your empire