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jordan peterson phenomena - Page 4

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RiKD    United States. May 16 2018 00:59. Posts 5417


  On May 15 2018 06:28 Loco wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +




I never understood the seemingly widely held claim that Marx led to millions of deaths. How do they go around saying that as if it were fact? The Russian and Chinese governments were responsible for millions of deaths. Poor leadership was responsible for millions of deaths. Guess what the Russian and Chinese government is still responsible for murder today. I don't even know the full history of it so maybe I shouldn't comment too much but how do they get away with this? There has to be actual intellects like philosophy professors willing to debate until the cows come home. Yeah, that was the other thing. How these guys are crowned these renegade intellectuals. Give me a fucking break. Maybe if you've never read a fucking book in your life.

 Last edit: 16/05/2018 01:00

Loco   Canada. May 16 2018 01:17. Posts 19729

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b2gsct

Listening to this right now, it's a pretty good round table discussion. Peterson gets some push back on the most problematic parts of his book. The part about stereotypical masculinity leading to mental health issues, which I've brought up before, is infuriating, he claims there is not "one shred of evidence" for it. He didn't bother to look for it at all.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. (Mencken) 

Loco   Canada. May 16 2018 01:21. Posts 19729


  On May 15 2018 23:59 RiKD wrote:
Show nested quote +



I never understood the seemingly widely held claim that Marx led to millions of deaths. How do they go around saying that as if it were fact? The Russian and Chinese governments were responsible for millions of deaths. Poor leadership was responsible for millions of deaths. Guess what the Russian and Chinese government is still responsible for murder today. I don't even know the full history of it so maybe I shouldn't comment too much but how do they get away with this? There has to be actual intellects like philosophy professors willing to debate until the cows come home. Yeah, that was the other thing. How these guys are crowned these renegade intellectuals. Give me a fucking break. Maybe if you've never read a fucking book in your life.




For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. (Mencken)Last edit: 16/05/2018 01:31

RiKD    United States. May 16 2018 01:28. Posts 5417


  On May 15 2018 18:37 Loco wrote:
Show nested quote +



That's anybody's guess. If I'm honest, I just keep up with it out of habit now. It's not just him though, he's just one of the big players who have a role in the current significant cultural shift towards right-wing ideology, largely because they dominate social media platforms and the algorithms reinforce people's narrow perceptions of what is actually happening in the world.

I think you can make a strong argument that they are a major obstacle in the way of allowing people to focus on the important issues, because they actively oppose the very idea that they are important. Peterson himself is a "climate skeptic" so he's not just a distraction but an actual enemy. His whole MO is that we should focus on our own little person, our personal achievements and our families, we shouldn't concern ourselves with global/societal problems. If this narrative gets no push back at all, it's pretty clear that we are screwed. It is at the moment in fact getting a lot of push back though, so it's fair enough to ignore him entirely if you want to.


The earth is not a small place now that we have the internet. It is also our only reasonable home at the moment. It is just so classic right to be like "oh, let me just make this million right quick. Climate change doesn't effect me therefore it is not real." It is like Michael Jordan in game 6 denying that he was seriously ill. Michael Jordan is an asshole. I reduced him to that because I don't have the time to write about all the heinous shit he's done. Nike is a gaudy god of horribleness which isn't as bad as the US govt. which isn't as bad as the Russian govt. which isn't as bad as the Chinese govt. which isn't as bad as the North Korean govt. It's overwhelming at times. Where do we even start?

It makes me think that focusing on our own little person, our personal achievements and our families makes sense but damn a lot of sentient beings are suffering and disasters are impending.


RiKD    United States. May 16 2018 01:37. Posts 5417


  On May 16 2018 00:17 Loco wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b0b2gsct

Listening to this right now, it's a pretty good round table discussion. Peterson gets some push back on the most problematic parts of his book. The part about stereotypical masculinity leading to mental health issues, which I've brought up before, is infuriating, he claims there is not "one shred of evidence" for it. He didn't bother to look for it at all.



"Take responsibility for everything in your control."

And what exactly is in our control?

It's such an important point that we never talk about.


RiKD    United States. May 16 2018 01:41. Posts 5417

Well, I think we talk about it on here some but go to Texas and it's all God, free-will, and bootstraps.


Stroggoz   New Zealand. May 16 2018 04:43. Posts 4217

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/opinion/intellectual-dark-web.html

The 'dark web intellectuals' portraying themselves as persecuted when on the left:

norman finkelstein got refused a positon at every university for exposing a book on israel/palestine as a fraud. also got denied tenure and kicked from a university for exposing alan dershowitz as a plagiarist.
chris hedges got fired from new york times for criticizing the invasion of iraq in 2003.
noam chomsky's first volume on the political economy of human rights got suppressed from being published by pressure from parent companies to smaller publishers.

https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/05/the-real-dangerous-ideas

I was GTO in 2007 -wobbly_auLast edit: 16/05/2018 04:43

Loco   Canada. May 16 2018 07:23. Posts 19729

Nathan writes so much lol how did he put out a similar piece the day just before? https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/05/pretty-loud-for-being-so-silenced

His video on Ben Shapiro is really great too.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. (Mencken)Last edit: 16/05/2018 07:31

RiKD    United States. May 16 2018 16:58. Posts 5417

Nice articles guys. There is a lot there with all the links. Somewhat overwhelming.


RiKD    United States. May 16 2018 19:42. Posts 5417

I think I might pass on the Ben Shapiro vid. I have no idea who he is besides that atrocious snippet on Hegel in one of the videos here.


Loco   Canada. May 16 2018 20:02. Posts 19729

One of his first links, which you might not be clicking on due to the overwhelming nature of the piece, is: https://www.currentaffairs.org/2018/01/meat-and-the-h-word

It's extremely well written, and goes deep into the nature of the denialism and moral failings of our culture with regards to the way we treat most other animals. In it he argues that no matter how improper or even insulting it sounds, using the word "holocaust" to describe what we are systematically doing is an impossible-to-avoid conclusion, if we are being honest enough.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. (Mencken)Last edit: 16/05/2018 20:03

RiKD    United States. May 16 2018 20:19. Posts 5417

~7 million Jews
56 billion farmed animals per year not including fish and sea creatures

So, the badmouse capitalism video was talking about 8 million deaths per year due to capitalism. I am unsure if socialist anarchy would fix all of those deaths but it also doesn't include the sickness capitalism can cause. And, of course, with the topic at hand 56 billion farmed animals per year not including fish and sea creatures. So, the aggregate of the systems today are causing more people to die in 1 year than in the holocaust which was over years. Obviously, it is in a little bit different light. It is pretty plain to see that systematically capturing, torturing, and killing millions of Jewish people is evil. Our current culture is so fucked that it is really that easy to turn a blind eye on 56 billion farmed animals and 8 million of the most unfortunate humans to be born into this world.


Spitfiree   Bulgaria. May 16 2018 23:10. Posts 8708

Isn't there heavy research on lab-grown meat past few years, with some success? It might come to the point where we don't use animals for meat anymore but actually "grow" it. That would be pretty cool, after that we just need to find a new efficient way for energy and we've solved the incoming overpopulation crisis.

 Last edit: 16/05/2018 23:11

Loco   Canada. May 17 2018 05:10. Posts 19729

There are already multiple companies producing "clean meat" and some projections that it will be available in restaurants as early as 2020, but it won't be able to compete with the heavily subsidized meat products. It's not going to slow down the trends of more animal foods being consumed throughout the Western world. China's not waiting for that though, they have decided to cut meat consumption in half by 2030. (Of course, it has nothing to do with concern for those animals, though.)

And yeah, I find the entire focus on "how many people died" comparison problematic in the badmouse videos. It's not accounting for many things that impoverish life under capitalism and slowly kill you. Still, he's aware of those things and he does a pretty terrific job debunking the status quo idea that we shouldn't even be asking the question because of those black book numbers, which are very likely not even accurate. Two historians who worked on the book themselves are critical of it:


  In the introduction, the editor, Stéphane Courtois, used a ‘rough approximation, based on unofficial estimates’ to come up with a figure that approached 100 million, a number far greater than the 25 million victims he attributes to Nazism (which does not, conveniently, include those killed as a result of the Second World War). Courtois equated communism with Nazism, and argued that the ‘single-minded focus on the Jewish genocide’ had impeded the accounting of communist crimes.

Painting the communists as worse that the Nazis based on a questionable body count raises alarm bells

The Black Book stoked controversy from its first publication in France. As soon as it hit the shelves, two of the prominent historians contributing to the volume, Jean-Louis Margolin and Nicolas Werth, attacked Courtois in the pages of Le Monde. Margolin and Werth distanced themselves from the volume, believing that Courtois’s obsession with reaching the number of 100 million led to careless scholarship.



I highly recommend reading the whole article here: https://aeon.co/essays/the-merits-of-taking-an-anti-anti-communism-stance

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. (Mencken)Last edit: 17/05/2018 05:16

Loco   Canada. May 17 2018 10:16. Posts 19729

And this is why being a centrist gets you into trouble. The latest on Jordan Peterson's best buddy whom he's touring with. Bought and paid for by the world's richest men for one purpose only.





And here is some classic Thatcherism:

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. (Mencken) 

Santafairy   Korea (South). May 17 2018 13:57. Posts 1429

talk show host I don't like has sponsor

It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen 

Loco   Canada. May 17 2018 19:29. Posts 19729

The full story is that Dave Rubin left TYT (fyi, I don't like/support TYT) based on personal disagreements with Cenk, mostly over the Harris/Islam stuff. He then went on to brand himself as this free thinker who is just exploring topics that were deemed "dangerous" by Cenk, and he said that freedom was granted to him by "us" -- by his Patreons. That's what it was when I followed him: he was free to be an unbiased show host. There was nothing to dislike about it, so I listened to him until I realized he did in fact have a clear agenda. Now it turns out we have proof he's a shill, but it's understandable that you'd want to defend him since he's a shill on your side of things. You have to admit it is pretty funny that the "regressive left" narrative only comes out after this same left has helped him secure his gay marriage rights and the Koch brothers started placing checks in his pockets.

For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. (Mencken)Last edit: 17/05/2018 19:32

cariadon   Estonia. May 17 2018 20:19. Posts 4008


  On May 15 2018 17:11 RiKD wrote:
"carbohydrates are basically poisonous" "The most good in the most efficient way possible"

Peterson could shut up and meditate. That would probably be best for the world. Like anxiety attacks and dread every morning is really an indicator that one is living their life well. Yeah, I want THAT. Work until exhaustion so I can find my MAX efficiency. Yeah.... ok. So, I can get a "pay raise" hopefully somewhat inline with inflation. Fucking joke. "Oh yeah, we got a 3% pay raise".... "Inflation 4%."

My last job my boss was all proud in giving me a "raise." Well, he fucking took tip share away so even with a raise to my base pay I was being paid less. The fact that he called it a raise and to act as if he was doing me a solid fucking infuriated me. It was enough pay that I wasn't going to leave over it though so mission accomplished on his part. That's all it fucking is.

At my other job same fucking thing. I was hourly banking on overtime because we were over fucking worked of course but I was getting them impossible business. Still, they were doing everything they could to get me on salary. This was like all the way up the chain to the VP of Sales. Finally, I was like fuck this I'll go on salary and just cruise because fuck this. So, I did. My alcoholism worsened and since I was salary I got short term and long term disability. Suckas. Not really though because that was the most anguish and suffering I have went through in my life thus far. Oh yeah, they promised me a new company car which didn't materialize and I couldn't really leave because they manipulated me into signing a confidentiality agreement. The thing is I am not a fucking lawyer but corporations are lawyered the fuck up. Making me wait for an hour in the waiting room and then giving me a 10+ page contract to read and pressuring me every 10 min. if I am done reading it yet. It's all bullshit negotiations and manipulations. Yeah, maybe I should be better at negotiating but all these guys are like in there 50s and have been doing it there whole life. I am not a fucking contract lawyer. What the fuck am I supposed to make of all of this?

So, practice hyper efficiency until exhaustion???

Yeah, if you want anxiety attacks, dread, high blood pressure, and sickness in return for a raise somewhat in line with inflation. It's a fucking horrible message. Everything a corporation does is to get more return on sales, more profit. Hyper efficiency will move someone up the chain eventually depending on factors. Until someone finds themselves in a job above their heads. All for what? So, they can buy a new couch or send Billy to the private university? Well, maybe I want to dress up in a dress shirt, nice pants, and a pair of expensive shoes and go to that place where I can buy $50 fried chicken and brag to my friends about it. Everyone will be dressed the same. Then we will go into the office the next day and everyone will be dressed the same. What did you do yesterday Thomas? Oh man, I went to Tusk and had $50 fried chicken. It was the best fried chicken ever. Then me and Louise went home drank wine and melded into that lovely, expensive couch we could barely afford but something about it made me feel like I could travel to a 4th dimension while being hit with mind anesthesia in the form of reality tv shows.

I just pictured the Peterson family going grocery shopping. They just go right to the butcher and ask for 9 lbs. of ground beef. "MAKE SURE IT'S GRASS FED!!!" Do they even plate it or just throw it all in a big sauté pan and eat it with their hands?



Thanks. I approve of this message 100%.


Spitfiree   Bulgaria. May 17 2018 22:10. Posts 8708

practice hyper efficiency till exhaustion sounds like something a corporate butcher would say


GoTuNk   Chile. May 18 2018 04:39. Posts 2797

"me and 10 other dudes with youtube channels are grilling the left, the democratic party, and the media"

https://youtu.be/Xfu1yBeP8O8

 Last edit: 18/05/2018 04:40

 
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