https://www.liquidpoker.net/


LP international Poland    Contact            Users: 174 Active, 0 Logged in - Time: 08:49

Gambling sucks, video games suck, and poker really sucks - Page 2

New to LiquidPoker? Register here for free!
Forum Index > General
  First 
  < 
  1 
 2 
  3 
  > 
  Last 
  All 
Loco   Canada. Jan 08 2018 13:46. Posts 20963


  On January 07 2018 21:44 Silver_nz wrote:
Show nested quote +



Yes, when we started poker this was the best opportunity. Even though we were hurting others and not really advancing ourselves long term, we did make money in the short term. In this way it is alot like any predator in nature - the prey doesn't want to be eaten. The gazelle has meat. Both the lion and a gazelle want the meat, the lion to eat it for calories, and the gazelle for moving around to graze and mate. We developed the fangs playing starcraft, so we might as well use them, For the successful hunter himself it is a good thing.



I think that's a clearly flawed analogy. First, the game is played consensually in a civilized environment, upon agreed rules. Secondly, the predator-prey relationship in the wild is inflexible and the winner is predictable given specific circumstances. And if the lion doesn't have a fruitful hunt, he still hasn't lost anything to the prey animal. In poker we use the analogy of the shark and the fish but the shark can always lose to the fish and the shark can become its own worst enemy at any given moment. He needs to be vigilant to avoid that. The poker shark is was not hardwired to be a winner, he turned himself into one through study and perseverance. In fact in most cases he was the fish at some point.

I agree with you on gaming furthering the inability to see far ahead and to plan for a future self because you are too used to pursue instant gratification. But when I'm talking about opportunities, I'm also including this fact as something that stood in the way of you pursing what you can now see, in retrospect, as missed opportunities. In reality you could not have chosen differently given those facts, you only have the feeling right now that you could have done differently, but this is an illusion.


  Isn't it clear that, at least in terms of the base meaning that got us here in the first place - that is: surviving and reproducing - poker and competitive gaming is maladaptive?



If you're using "maladaptive" in the context of natural selection, it doesn't really apply to individuals or make sense here. What you're concerned with is that it affects your chances at happiness, not that it reduces your chances of reproducing (it doesn't). This is not a major driving force in modern society in the first place (and it's not the only mechanism that got us here).

fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccountLast edit: 08/01/2018 14:32

Loco   Canada. Jan 08 2018 13:46. Posts 20963


  On January 07 2018 21:57 Baalim wrote:
Show nested quote +



It is also the only constructive drive in nature


An outdated view of nature.

fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccountLast edit: 08/01/2018 13:57

RiKD    United States. Jan 08 2018 16:33. Posts 8431

Open, borderless, de-centralized networks over centralized, hierarchies. It is the future. It's why ISIS is such a pain. Why bitcoin is bitcoin. ISIS will likely be held to a certain percentage and bitcoin may just be regulated to near death but this idea of cooperative networks is viable. We already have the internet. All we need is more Wikileaks to pop up. Turn the surveillance around. There should be a Wikileaks for every network news show.


Floofy   Canada. Jan 08 2018 19:26. Posts 8708


  On January 08 2018 07:40 bigredhoss wrote:
Show nested quote +



I basically think people should do what they want including playing poker, but your analogies are off. It's impossible for a mediocre chess or starcraft player to believe he can become one of the best in the world without being dispelled of that notion very quickly. But there's hundreds of thousands of mediocre or worse poker players who have held the belief that they were the 2nd coming of phil ivey after going on a heater. Some go through a lot of suffering and pointless struggle chasing that idea. Also - while there are surely exceptions - being obsessed with martial arts or chess generally doesn't have the same level of detriment to someone's life that being an obsessed losing poker player does.


I think you missed my point. The point of the guy in the video overall is "Spending time at competitive games is a waste of time, do constructive real life stuff instead".
Of course, more poker players are "harmed" by playing the game than people playing chess. But i think its unfair to blame this on the better poker players.

I left poker a few years ago, and as far as i know, i don't think i suddenly saved the live of people... people losing to money to me are still losing money lol

james9994: make note dont play against floofy, ;( 

Smuft   Canada. Jan 08 2018 20:15. Posts 633

https://twitter.com/RichardHeartWin

this guy is literally shilling affiliate links for crypto exchanges and has a daily involvement in the market

wtf?


Floofy   Canada. Jan 08 2018 23:21. Posts 8708


  On January 08 2018 19:15 Smuft wrote:
https://twitter.com/RichardHeartWin

this guy is literally shilling affiliate links for crypto exchanges and has a daily involvement in the market

wtf?



Sometimes, the best person to tell you something sucks is people who actually do it xD
Its like a drug addict advising you to never do drugs. Makes sense imo

james9994: make note dont play against floofy, ;( 

CamilaPunt   Brasil. Jan 09 2018 01:37. Posts 2422


  On January 07 2018 20:20 NMcNasty wrote:
I agree with the general sentiment that too much problem-solving talent is being spent on games of some sort as opposed to issues of critical importance like the environment, but overall the video is pretty bad.

Some things:

He mainly mentions poker, and seems to have a relatively accurate idea of what it entails, to start off his rant. Then he mentions the stock market kind of as an afterthought. The poker brain drain is a complete joke compared to Wall Street. There are probably 1,000 people wasting talent in some sort part of the financial services industry for every professional poker player.

Inventing something that helps the environment is a ridiculously high standard. Sorry I'm not a Nobel prize winning biochemist.

He's a hypocrite. He has a ton of videos about bitcoin.

The idea that when you tackle environmental/societal issues you aren't competing against other humans is wrong. Other humans spend billions of dollars lobbying for policies that harm the environment.

He goes out of his way to say that poker actively harms people as opposed to being value-neutral. Yes, when you win money from someone else they lose money, but when you spend the money you won, someone else gets that money, it does not disappear from society. When you pay your taxes on your winnings I think its pretty clear you're even a net benefit to society since that money might have just been hoarded otherwise.

+1 to Loco's post

Read comments in the video. Doug Polk




in other news - god damn your terran timing push was friggin annoying


NMcNasty    United States. Jan 09 2018 17:02. Posts 2039


  On January 09 2018 00:37 CamilaPunt wrote:
in other news - god damn your terran timing push was friggin annoying



Been watching Flash's youtube channel lately, he has this sweet marine/tank with vulture drop in the back push that he's using to crush random ladder players. Makes me want to play again.


Minsk   United States. Jan 09 2018 22:11. Posts 1558

This is mostly nonsense.

 Last edit: 09/01/2018 22:13

bigredhoss   Cook Islands. Jan 09 2018 23:59. Posts 8646


  On January 08 2018 18:26 Floofy wrote:
Show nested quote +



I think you missed my point. The point of the guy in the video overall is "Spending time at competitive games is a waste of time, do constructive real life stuff instead".
Of course, more poker players are "harmed" by playing the game than people playing chess. But i think its unfair to blame this on the better poker players.

I left poker a few years ago, and as far as i know, i don't think i suddenly saved the live of people... people losing to money to me are still losing money lol



I watched like 20 seconds of the video, I was only replying to your comments.

Truck-Crash Life 

whammbot   Belarus. Jan 10 2018 08:41. Posts 517

8billion people , some gotta do some weird shit like poker. We cant all be elon musk or oprah


Santafairy   Korea (South). Jan 10 2018 15:23. Posts 2224

yeah this guy is not bright

not everyone is going to cure cancer and not everyone is even able to contribute to the effort

the human condition is not as narrow as he has been led to believe

there is a huge psychological basis for play

It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen 

deathstar   United States. Jan 11 2018 17:49. Posts 111

I like his jacket.


casinocasino   Canada. Jan 16 2018 17:09. Posts 3343

Had to stop listening when he said "its not hard to play poker, theirs guide books on it"


Stroggoz   New Zealand. Jan 17 2018 05:31. Posts 5289

He may be clueless about how to learn poker, but we shouldn't dismiss him, he still has some valid points.

One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beings 

Silver_nz   New Zealand. Jan 26 2018 06:22. Posts 5647


  On January 08 2018 08:11 MezmerizePLZ wrote:
List of things to cut out of life so that we can help humanity optimally?

1. Milkshakes, they're really not worth it, even if you're spending money at a restaurant, they're pretty annoying to make and you probably negatively impacted the worker compared to ordering an iced tea, which is more healthy so you can live longer and benefit humanity better.

2. Fashion, in the future once we have all figured out that helping humanity is optimal, there will be no need for it. It's really pretty much just self serving to look cool, even if you're a designer, you should probably start designing things that can actually help people. Maybe like a new sweet hot tub or something.

3. Alcohol, you may think that it's fun, or that its helping you make connections, but really its just damaging ur brain cells which could be used to help humanity.

4. Any type of sports, pretty much just zero sum games, in the future no one will watch sports anyway cuz its -EV compared to helping humanity, so you won't be able to go pro anyway. Potentially good for health so maybe this one shouldn't be on here WHO KNOWS

etc. etc.

I mean I listened to the whole thing and I don't really get his point, obviously poker is not that great of a thing humanity wise, but there is a market for it where playing poker for a living is substantially more +EV for certain people than the alternatives of trying to work up through a 9-5 or risk starting their own business for god knows what. When that happens then people will play poker over their other options. I definitely think there are a lot of people who are just barely surviving in poker that would benefit from switching to something more stable/enjoyable for them. He seems to think its more important to be productive than to be happy, or maybe hes arguing that being productive will make you more happy? idk





Heh, you are still a master of humour-lubed persuasion Mez. Milkshakes and fashion do have value, I saw the point as being a comparison to what you could have done instead of poker-for-5-years. Could have been creating cutting-edge artisan milkshakes for example. Or could have been building a professional career for 5 years, or building a really nice house in the woods, or using your natural talents to entertain as a standup comic, or to lead a game design team to create games more compelling than poker which also improve lives rather than ruin them (as most modern games are just aimed at addicting the player to wring as much money as possible from him: examples - Candy crush, WOW, downloadable content etc, a game that is both compelling and aids people in understanding the world could have big value).

Over the 5 year period, some of these things might have had a higher payoff (in whichever metric you choose to measure value; money, status, health, number of babies produced etc). And your payoff from 5 years at a focused long term goal that is not poker might be significantly higher, like 10x higher AND they would almost certainly continue to pay off over the rest of your life too - e.g. the house you can live in, the career you still get asked to do high paid contracts, the milkshakes are immortalized in the National Food museum

I think it was Phil Galfond who said "if you are smart enough to make money at poker you are smart enough to make much more money doing something else"


Silver_nz   New Zealand. Jan 26 2018 06:23. Posts 5647


Stroggoz   New Zealand. Jan 26 2018 06:56. Posts 5289

hmm, if im smart enough to make money at poker im smart enough to make more at something else? could certainly be true, lots of mit graduates get job rejections from goldman sachs tho, and poker has the value of letting you be a free person. Freedom is highly underated, imo!

One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beings 

Silver_nz   New Zealand. Jan 27 2018 03:43. Posts 5647


  On January 26 2018 05:56 Stroggoz wrote:
hmm, if im smart enough to make money at poker im smart enough to make more at something else? could certainly be true, lots of mit graduates get job rejections from goldman sachs tho, and poker has the value of letting you be a free person. Freedom is highly underated, imo!



This is true, being able to start and stop when you like, no one to answer to not even customers, relying only on your own objective skill (i.e. no "faking-it" or favoritism); is quite an unusual situation in the modern world. Very similar to being a hunter-gatherer.

Anything else you did would be just as highly specialized, but likely involve talking and socializing with some kind of customer, and that means deadlines and obligations to fulfill, and being a trustworthy and stable entity. Certainly a cost to the lifestyle.


Baalim   Mexico. Jan 27 2018 06:51. Posts 34246

Being paid for defeating others in a game of wit and emotoinal control is just amazing.

Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online 

 
  First 
  < 
  1 
 2 
  3 
  > 
  Last 
  All 



Poker Streams

















Copyright © 2024. LiquidPoker.net All Rights Reserved
Contact Advertise Sitemap