I have this weird thing where I think I can't do much of anything for an hour after eating food. No showers, no laying down in bed... That might be it really but I like to read lying down in bed.
PORNOGRAPHY
So, since I can't do something great like read I do something to fill in the gaps like go to LP or pornography. I don't know what I am doing just sitting there enjoying the show. It all looks to be the same after a while. Until I got to Kendra Sunderland. I think I like really large breasts in pornography for the viewership but it doesn't really make much of a difference for me in real life (not true OBV!). I dated this woman who had virtually no breasts. She had great eyes and great conversation. That is a pretty great combination. I am staring at these beautiful eyes have meaningful conversation one can just get lost in it all. She didn't need breasts.
Anyways, I really should be asking myself if this is how I want to spend my day off?
Watching pornography and writing bullshit. I went and risked a handjob in the bathroom for ole Kendra Sunderland. When I was done it hit me... Oh shit, how will I get out? It was kind of a fun handjob. That may not be said for most. I think I am building up a pretty solid pornography addiction (again?). Nah, it's not really causing problems yet. It is just not really something I should be spending much time on. Probably, similar to this blog, my entire blog catalog, this website. Laugh out loud.
I was talking to my therapist today and she thinks I should just continue focusing on getting a social circle out here. See how that goes. See if I like it. Don't worry so much about getting a new job and moving out and getting an apartment. I feel pretty content right now. I am not ashamed of living with my parents. It is fun meeting new people and getting to know people better.
I started reading "Tree of Knowledge" by Maturana. We should all read it and get a discussion going so it will be more fun. Otherwise, I think Martin Amis "Money" is going to beat it out for reading preference. Loco says "Tree of Knowledge" can be a life changing book. I liked the first chapter. Maybe I will go read that.
I think this is a rough one. Today has been a day where I just threw on some sweatpants and I am sweatpantsin' the day away. They are not even cool sweatpants. Just some ok sweatpants without the laces for the waist band because they took them out when I was in the psych ward those bastards. It's nice to not be in there though. It's nice to have my meds down pretty well. I want another wank to my girl Kendra. I could get it on my phone. That is better than reading of course....
I don't want to have children or maybe I DO want to have children in the same way I really DO want to eat a burger tonight even though I know it to be ethically wrong. It pulls on the heartstrings those babies and burgers.
I want a healthy female. That is what I am attracted to.
Anyways, I am out of the sweatpants. Good riddance. I have a modified Steve Jobs that I wear every day. It's just how it ended up. Steve was pretty smart in a lot of ways.
Black Bread and Boxer relaxed fit t-shirt
501 custom taper jeans
Brooks Ghost shoe
I don't actually wear it every day but it is my favorite thing to wear. I might be better off if I wear it everyday.
If everyone in the world did not eat meat the world would be a better place.
To go further. We are all biased so no veils of ignorance exist but go watch Cowspiracy and Earthlings.
I am complicit in the pain, abuse, and suffering of uncountable animals. All because I like and am addicted to burgers. Burgers, fries and some ice cream. I need that density of food and taste in my life. I don't really but I don't change.
I mean I get the arguments, I just prefer to eat that tasty stuff and be viewed as an insane person or an asshole by vegans I guess. I have no moral problems eating any type of animal meat as long as its delicious tbh and dogs are heavily overrated regarding their intelligence. People mistook their loyalty and dedication for intelligence, which is actually contradictory.
I've never eaten dogs or cats, but thats cause of the society around me, would probably change if I went to China for example. I actually have no problem trying out all animal meet, which is the exact other end of the vegan spectrum.
I'd change the conditions under which those animals are bred if I had the power, but I would certainly not give up meat to do so. I know - I'm a part of the problem.
1
Stroggoz New Zealand. Nov 28 2017 21:31. Posts 5296
shouldn't we force suicide all of the animals in the world to reduce the amount of suffering they endure anyway? Didn't you argue that for humans once. Do you think that applys for animals or not. That would be an easy way to make everyone a vegetarian/vegan as well. I don't actually take the above argument seriously for humans or animals, just wondering if you would for both.
what about the argument:
1) too busy to deal with these issues, since i have finite time to deal with problems in the world, i will focus on the greater problems of war/global warming instead, and i feel far more strongly about this than animal abuse, since i prioritise human suffering over animal suffering.
I dislike that many vegans have the opposite prioritisation from me, but i think their arguments are fine and we should do something about animal abuse.
One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beings
On November 28 2017 11:26 iop wrote:
Hows your crossfit / training going?
It's not. I keep procrastinating. I switched to day shift now so that is good but now I have to psych myself up to go into the zoo of the after work crowd to try and get some training in. I also have this thing in my mind if they don't have a proper deadlift setup or some kettlebells I refuse to go to that place. That knocks out a lot of gyms. I need to do something. I don't even get my walks in anymore.
On November 27 2017 23:48 Spitfiree wrote:
Wait how is eating a burger morally wrong?
it is not if the animal was threated with respect (I acctually quoted a norwegian philosopher here)
Yeah, the quote is great and all and from a real Norwegian philosopher but virtually no animals are treated with respect. Even that blowhard Joe Salatin or whatever his name is loves to toot his own horn about how great he treats the animals but that is not the whole truth and yes he eventually murders them.
Fuck, I did not want to start this with you but I have some time to kill so just responded with out thinking about that.
I mean I get the arguments, I just prefer to eat that tasty stuff and be viewed as an insane person or an asshole by vegans I guess. I have no moral problems eating any type of animal meat as long as its delicious tbh and dogs are heavily overrated regarding their intelligence. People mistook their loyalty and dedication for intelligence, which is actually contradictory.
I've never eaten dogs or cats, but thats cause of the society around me, would probably change if I went to China for example. I actually have no problem trying out all animal meet, which is the exact other end of the vegan spectrum.
I'd change the conditions under which those animals are bred if I had the power, but I would certainly not give up meat to do so. I know - I'm a part of the problem.
Such a weird post. You are taking it the other way all the way in a weird way. It's not cool to eat animals. It does not make you more of a man. I mean if you want to go around eating cats that have been euthanized at no kill shelters be my guest. It is the background, the story, the lofty abuse. Lofty abuse does not even cover it. Every cat and dog should be spade and neutered. As many as possible. It's the same with all animals. That is how to change the breeding. Let them go extinct.
shouldn't we force suicide all of the animals in the world to reduce the amount of suffering they endure anyway? Didn't you argue that for humans once. Do you think that applys for animals or not. That would be an easy way to make everyone a vegetarian/vegan as well. I don't actually take the above argument seriously for humans or animals, just wondering if you would for both.
what about the argument:
1) too busy to deal with these issues, since i have finite time to deal with problems in the world, i will focus on the greater problems of war/global warming instead, and i feel far more strongly about this than animal abuse, since i prioritise human suffering over animal suffering.
I dislike that many vegans have the opposite prioritisation from me, but i think their arguments are fine and we should do something about animal abuse.
Mass suicide is an option. There is obviously a difference between suicide and just not coming into existence. I am with Benetar in that suicide is bad but still permissible under certain circumstances. Many of the conditions in these concentration camps might qualify. They might not though. I would be against mass suicide for both humans and animals but for not breeding anymore for both. I think an animal has to be in a lot of incurable pain or deep illness to euthanize it and hopefully that is done painlessly (as harmful as a shot of whatever it is vets and no kill shelters use).
Cows are the biggest contributor to global warming.
I don't know if vegans have opposite prioritization. The animal suffering is one part. It is very difficult to be a vegan and not think about human suffering too. I'm sure many care more about animals but I know when I looked at it it blew my mind how many animals were suffering. There are 19 billion chickens on the planet. Nearly all of them is in a shitty position. Out of the 7 billion people on the planet how many are living the equivalent of cramped up in cages in there own shit? Chickens are literally in a shitty position. 1.4 billion cows are fucked. 1 billion sheep are fucked. 1 billion pigs are fucked. All we would have to do is stop eating them. That really seems monumental typing that out but if we just stop eating them the suffering goes away. Not all suffering of course. The ones that continue to live will still suffer because life is suffering but if we just let that cow graze around a field until it dies of natural causes no one can tell me that that is not the right thing to do.
I tried the vegan diet a while ago, paleo and other stuff. Ethically, I was with it for a while and I absolutely respect Vegans choice and their heartfelt respect for all life forms. However, I think we've got an identity crisis as human beings and ethics have came into what was a natural choice in the past: hunt, harvest from or slaughter weaker animals, prey on them and nourish yourself. Ethically, vegans and vegetarians flat out call this murder and claim it's wrong. I respect that point of view but it's not an objective truth. Murdering another animal for food is one of the most natural occurrences in the animal kingdom. We're predators in every aspect of our lives and I believe there's nothing wrong with it, we should embrace what we are and respect that some people feel differently. Obviously, to function as a society, some predatory actions shouldn't happen and imo there are too many people on the planet, it's a real problem but at this point I've pretty much accepted our self-destruction (whole other topic). Ultimately though, each view point on diet is just a stance at one particular moment in time and part of a journey, I see Loco seems to be fully vegan right now and I'm very glad it's working out for him. From a weight(health?)-conscious perspective, lb/kg/goals mean more than time. I wouldn't say I've found the perfect diet for me, I even did 30 days on a vegan diet recently as an experiment and tried my best to really do it and eat well but I felt very weak after 3-4 weeks, still completed the challenge but my conclusion was that I learned how to feed myself better than I did in the past with animal products and missing them I felt weak and unsatisfied. Just my 2 cents
if poker is dangerous to them i would rank sports betting as a Kodiak grizzly bear who smells blood after you just threw a javelin into his cub - RaiNKhAN
On November 27 2017 23:48 Spitfiree wrote:
Wait how is eating a burger morally wrong?
it is not if the animal was threated with respect (I acctually quoted a norwegian philosopher here)
That's only true if it's a matter of survival, which it isn't for everyone posting on this website. Philosophers from every normative ethical theories (virtue ethics, deontology, consequentialism (utilitarianism) have extremely strong ethical arguments against the killing of animals for pleasure or profit.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
I mean I get the arguments, I just prefer to eat that tasty stuff and be viewed as an insane person or an asshole by vegans I guess. I have no moral problems eating any type of animal meat as long as its delicious tbh and dogs are heavily overrated regarding their intelligence. People mistook their loyalty and dedication for intelligence, which is actually contradictory.
I've never eaten dogs or cats, but thats cause of the society around me, would probably change if I went to China for example. I actually have no problem trying out all animal meet, which is the exact other end of the vegan spectrum.
I'd change the conditions under which those animals are bred if I had the power, but I would certainly not give up meat to do so. I know - I'm a part of the problem.
I guess I just don't understand why you even bother to ask the question "how is eating meat immoral?" if you have no interest in ethics? It's like, why bother if you're just going to justify it by saying "yeah I know I have no moral justifications for doing it". Unless you think cultural relativism is the argument -- it's not clear that you think that, but you sort of are saying "what's good/acceptable in my culture is good for me". If that's the case, that's by far one of the worst arguments to justify anything. Anyway...
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
shouldn't we force suicide all of the animals in the world to reduce the amount of suffering they endure anyway? Didn't you argue that for humans once. Do you think that applys for animals or not. That would be an easy way to make everyone a vegetarian/vegan as well. I don't actually take the above argument seriously for humans or animals, just wondering if you would for both.
what about the argument:
1) too busy to deal with these issues, since i have finite time to deal with problems in the world, i will focus on the greater problems of war/global warming instead, and i feel far more strongly about this than animal abuse, since i prioritise human suffering over animal suffering.
I dislike that many vegans have the opposite prioritisation from me, but i think their arguments are fine and we should do something about animal abuse.
It's really weird how even intelligent people like you just can't wrap their heads around antinatalism. I mean, the word says it, it's being anti-birth. It doesn't say pro-murder or pro-suicide.
I've argued that we should consider that it would be in our best interest to pursue a sort of graceful extinction, and I think that this is logical conclusion given a few premises that many people actually hold to be true without realizing it. It's not something I advocate for, it's just an hypothetical, obviously there is no chance on earth people would ever be on board with that. I do argue for a kind of local antinatalism on other grounds though.
It's the same deal with other sentient animals. Vegans are not interested in killing animals, except maybe less than 0.05% who are hard line utilitarians. Most of us just argue that it's wrong to keep breeding them. There are utilitarian arguments about wild life intervention however, like, say if you could sterilize wild animals with the help of a harmless chemical in the air or water, that it would be the moral thing to do, when you carefully look at how much suffering they undergo in the wild, making their existences a net negative. This is a view that I sympathize with, but it faces similar impossibilities as the extinction scenario, it's not sociologically credible and it's also ecologically problematic. It seems only possible in a distant transhumanistic future through ecoengineering with things like CRISPR-Cas9.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
I only eat animals that lived a happy life and I only eat eggs from happy chickens. This is very important for me. Here in Norway the farmers are very kind to animals in 99.9% of cases. I spoke with a farmer and he told me that you really have to love animals to even consider being a farmer here because any other job would pay better for the amount of hours put in. If he did not care for animals he would quit today he said. What I am against is the fur business with mink here.
I would pay extra for meat from Uruguay. They have it sometimes here... I forgot the name of the animal, but they live freely outdoors their entire life until slaughter (which is done in the most humane way possible)
I think the way to go would be to fight against animal cruelty and getting the population to switch out some of their meals to vegan meals. I do not think the way to go is to attack everyone that eat a non-vegan hamburger. (like some vegans are doing). And the no egg thing, this will never happen... Just forget about it. People will eat eggs forever and its fine if they come from happy chickens. I think it is going in the right direction because vegan products are all extremly popular here. This cruel "dog festival" or what it is called in China is very small now compared to a few years ago, hopefully in a few years it will not exist anymore. So I think a lot of things are going in the right direction (there are many more examples than this)
I don't think anyone would disagree that reducing or eliminating suffering in the way animals are farmed is a positive thing but I don't believe it actually matters all that much. It's a distasteful subject. If you were out hunting, the happiness of the animal doesn't really even enter your mind. If you saw an extremely large chicken but god damn it looked unhappy, would you look for another? Physically, it looks fantastic, but for some reason you can just tell by looking at it that mentally it's unhappy. So do you leave the chicken so it can find some zen-like state where it's perfectly happy being murdered in the future? No, you would simply kill and eat the juicy chicken. Even if it was chronically unhappy or miserable? The answer is still yes, you need to eat. This concept of happiness in relation to our food comes from the thought that humans are abusive towards animals in feed lot or slaughter house scenarios but in their natural wild state, animals are perfectly happy. That if an animal is happy, somehow it takes away the responsibility you have in it's death and it's therefore "guilt free" food. It's just a distraction from the reality and ultimately on the consumer level, irrelevant marketing. In mass farming situations, it's true, that definitely exists to varying degrees but it doesn't truly matter to people. They value the meat above the happiness of their prey. It's not really spoken about because in language it can't really be reasoned in an emotionally digestible way for most people but they know they're drawn to eat meat and survive as a group. In modern society, we believe we're above that reality but it's pervasive in our attitudes each day, it's only with the luxury of choice that some small percentage of us make these kinds of decisions. Economically, it's not even possible for a lot of people.
if poker is dangerous to them i would rank sports betting as a Kodiak grizzly bear who smells blood after you just threw a javelin into his cub - RaiNKhAN
shouldn't we force suicide all of the animals in the world to reduce the amount of suffering they endure anyway? Didn't you argue that for humans once. Do you think that applys for animals or not. That would be an easy way to make everyone a vegetarian/vegan as well. I don't actually take the above argument seriously for humans or animals, just wondering if you would for both.
what about the argument:
1) too busy to deal with these issues, since i have finite time to deal with problems in the world, i will focus on the greater problems of war/global warming instead, and i feel far more strongly about this than animal abuse, since i prioritise human suffering over animal suffering.
I dislike that many vegans have the opposite prioritisation from me, but i think their arguments are fine and we should do something about animal abuse.
It's really weird how even intelligent people like you just can't wrap their heads around antinatalism. I mean, the word says it, it's being anti-birth. It doesn't say pro-murder or pro-suicide.
I've argued that we should consider that it would be in our best interest to pursue a sort of graceful extinction, and I think that this is logical conclusion given a few premises that many people actually hold to be true without realizing it. It's not something I advocate for, it's just an hypothetical, obviously there is no chance on earth people would ever be on board with that. I do argue for a kind of local antinatalism on other grounds though.
It's the same deal with other sentient animals. Vegans are not interested in killing animals, except maybe less than 0.05% who are hard line utilitarians. Most of us just argue that it's wrong to keep breeding them. There are utilitarian arguments about wild life intervention however, like, say if you could sterilize wild animals with the help of a harmless chemical in the air or water, that it would be the moral thing to do, when you carefully look at how much suffering they undergo in the wild, making their existences a net negative. This is a view that I sympathize with, but it faces similar impossibilities as the extinction scenario, it's not sociologically credible and it's also ecologically problematic. It seems only possible in a distant transhumanistic future through ecoengineering with things like CRISPR-Cas9.
right, i knew you put forth the idea of a graceful extinction. i forgot to put the difference in when i made my post, haha.
the reason i said 'forced' is because you can never convince an animal, it would result in some sort of force. I didn't think you want to force any humans of course.
yeah it seems to me like the best way to reduce animal suffering is to stop breeding so many of them. There are so many cattle/chicken, ect compared to every other animal. I havn't researched it at all, but that seems like the most obvious course of action to reduce large amounts of animal suffering. The political economy of food is very messed up as well. It has a lot to do with how capitalists pursue profit, and making it as miserable for animals as you possibly can is a side effect of cutting costs.
One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beings
I tried the vegan diet a while ago, paleo and other stuff. Ethically, I was with it for a while and I absolutely respect Vegans choice and their heartfelt respect for all life forms. However, I think we've got an identity crisis as human beings and ethics have came into what was a natural choice in the past: hunt, harvest from or slaughter weaker animals, prey on them and nourish yourself. Ethically, vegans and vegetarians flat out call this murder and claim it's wrong. I respect that point of view but it's not an objective truth. Murdering another animal for food is one of the most natural occurrences in the animal kingdom. We're predators in every aspect of our lives and I believe there's nothing wrong with it, we should embrace what we are and respect that some people feel differently. Obviously, to function as a society, some predatory actions shouldn't happen and imo there are too many people on the planet, it's a real problem but at this point I've pretty much accepted our self-destruction (whole other topic). Ultimately though, each view point on diet is just a stance at one particular moment in time and part of a journey, I see Loco seems to be fully vegan right now and I'm very glad it's working out for him. From a weight(health?)-conscious perspective, lb/kg/goals mean more than time. I wouldn't say I've found the perfect diet for me, I even did 30 days on a vegan diet recently as an experiment and tried my best to really do it and eat well but I felt very weak after 3-4 weeks, still completed the challenge but my conclusion was that I learned how to feed myself better than I did in the past with animal products and missing them I felt weak and unsatisfied. Just my 2 cents
To be honest I don't have a problem with responsible hunting. I mean I do because it is murder but as long as it is within wildlife conservation and the hunter is a good shot and then eats that meat, freezes that meat, whatever it is far less of a problem than factory farming and that stuff ending up in the supermarket. The thing is would I be for hunting starving Africans as long as they were one shot killed and their flesh eaten?
Pretty soon we start looking for slightly marbled specimens with pronounced skull features. We start hunting linebackers and offensive linemen. There is overpopulation. It is simply wildlife conservation. Then the new currencies are AK-47s and gold. I'll stop but why should that deer not be allowed to hop around the forest gathering it's food for an extra 4 years or so? If it is going to starve to death or do something crazy like run across the freeway sure let the hunters hunt. I think it can be a form of euthanasia if done responsibly. To be honest, wild fed deer is quite delicious. It would be best for us to not fetishize our food. The point is 6 million deer killed in deer hunting in the US is far better than the 39 million cattle kept in gulags and murdered in the US.
One thing I think is funny is how many of you looked up Kendra Sunderland.
I would if I were you.
Oh, how far away I am from the guy who was against porn and didn't masturbate for 7 months. Actually, not that far. I have just found myself hooked.
Ethics of pornography?
I can talk about what I think are positives and negatives. One of the real negatives I think about is how I look at women as objects. Once they talk I can snap out of it but if I am watching a lot of porn I fear I am looking at women like a juicy steak or something. Porn trains you to gaze at the ass at the breasts at the legs at the shape. That's not their only value. I may be putting too much into this.
Should we all abstain from pornography and why?
Handjobs can typically be a lot more fun with pornography.
Should we all abstain from handjobs and why?
Although I think we have already had the ladder discussion. Once I get into a steady diet of handjobs I really need that pornography to spice things up. I typically get a bit of a mood change. Some endorphins. Not the worst way to fill some time. I can't always be at the gym or making money or reading BUT BUT BUT what if I am content to have a wank when I could be going on dates with beautiful women who also want to take their clothes off and have actual sex?!?!? The plot thickens. I am here thinking I am banging all these super attractive bimbos when in reality I am just some dude by myself having a cheeky handjob. No fap power online dating is the only true way!!! Then I end up banging some chubby girl with a toddler I took out to Chick Fil A. Fuck. Fucking some ok looking emo chick because we both like Sartre. I shouldn't sit here judging. I really should be through with judging. Fucking chubby women, women with kids, not great looking women could be great for me. It might be all I get now a days. I just hate the idea of that really. I don't want to settle. I like a lot of different types of women. I have just been thinking about doing an early online experiment. I don't quite have my money right, I live with my parents. Just those two facts are going to put me at a big disadvantage but when are those things ever going to be completely right? Why don't I hit the gym and get a better job? Fair enough. Why don't I just be content with meeting people and hanging out with people? That is really the best answer right now. Continuing to meet people and get to know the people I know better. I am starting to get to know some really cool people and it is making me happy.
I think part of this is this newcomer strolls into the meeting looking like a flat out streetwalker. A sexy streetwalker at that but she is just swaggering around spraying her pussy vapors all over the place. For the ending prayer she makes a beeline for me and we are holding hands. My penis is saying yes, yes, yes. My brain is saying oh dear. Oh dear. She's smart and funny too but it is not going to happen but it is situations like this that scream at me I need to have options. A newcomer with less than 30 days sober is just not an option even if it may seem tempting but it is not tempting at all if I have OTHER OPTIONS. I have spoken enough on this. I think it is clear or maybe it isn't yet but the progression has to be:
Friends, Gym (diet)
Dating
At the moment I don't want to wait to date until I get my money perfectly right or move out of my parents house. Fucking who cares if the date is at a cool french cafe for coffee or chipotle. I have this idea in my mind that I have to go to some cool, sexy lounge and have drinks or some well known restaurant. I think online dating is a different animal. Probably more flaking. I don't know really. Getting some coffee and going for a walk sounds like an amazing date to me. I have to like reprogram myself in some ways here.
On November 29 2017 17:41 VanDerMeyde wrote:
By happy chickens I mean free-range chickens.
If you love eggs so much why not buy your own chickens? That is the only way to know there is lacking in major suffering.
Because i dont have time or space (i live in the city) for that. Its not realistic to make people stop eating eggs. + its way too healthy to eat them for me to even consider that. But i dont like animals in cages so eggs from free range chickens only !
On November 29 2017 17:41 VanDerMeyde wrote:
By happy chickens I mean free-range chickens.
If you love eggs so much why not buy your own chickens? That is the only way to know there is lacking in major suffering.
Because i dont have time or space (i live in the city) for that. Its not realistic to make people stop eating eggs. + its way too healthy to eat them for me to even consider that. But i dont like animals in cages so eggs from free range chickens only !
Free range is essentially a scam. There is no such thing as happy chickens on farms that need to make a profit.
This is not UK, its Norway. We are way ahead in animal welfare. Yeah there are, we threat our animals very good here in Norway thanks. It is in the interest for the society to find those that are cruel to animals, because studies show people that are cruel to animals tend to also be violent to other humans (I would care anyway, but even for people that do not care about animals welfare it is in their interest to find and stop these people)
I just realized the eggs I eat are even better than the ones called "from free range chickens". I buy organic eggs and these chickens walk freely outdoors outside winter here in Norway.
I mean I get the arguments, I just prefer to eat that tasty stuff and be viewed as an insane person or an asshole by vegans I guess. I have no moral problems eating any type of animal meat as long as its delicious tbh and dogs are heavily overrated regarding their intelligence. People mistook their loyalty and dedication for intelligence, which is actually contradictory.
I've never eaten dogs or cats, but thats cause of the society around me, would probably change if I went to China for example. I actually have no problem trying out all animal meet, which is the exact other end of the vegan spectrum.
I'd change the conditions under which those animals are bred if I had the power, but I would certainly not give up meat to do so. I know - I'm a part of the problem.
I guess I just don't understand why you even bother to ask the question "how is eating meat immoral?"
No, don't get me wrong - I do. I'm just okay with the fact that it's immoral. There's no rational, reasonable argument for meat eaters imo. I don't like being a hypocrite either. I'm aware of how the industry operates for the most part and I still feel no guilt eating animals, don't think I'd make a self-forceful conscious decision of going vegetarian (I'd say veganism is just extreme as views)
On November 30 2017 12:47 VanDerMeyde wrote:
This is not UK, its Norway. We are way ahead in animal welfare. Yeah there are, we threat our animals very good here in Norway thanks. It is in the interest for the society to find those that are cruel to animals, because studies show people that are cruel to animals tend to also be violent to other humans (I would care anyway, but even for people that do not care about animals welfare it is in their interest to find and stop these people)
Not that this chronicle proved anything at all...
On November 30 2017 12:55 VanDerMeyde wrote:
I just realized the eggs I eat are even better than the ones called "from free range chickens". I buy organic eggs and these chickens walk freely outdoors outside winter here in Norway.
What about Swedish eggs? Because Swedes say the exact same thing and similarly take great pride in their eggs. I briefly worked at a Swedish egg farm (thankfully not dealing with hens) when I first moved there and "free range" meant that there was a 2-3 meter wide caged enclosure running the full length of the fully enclosed chicken-packed egg laying building with roughly 8 small portals in/out equidistant throughout the length. This building had multiple sections of feeding troughs and they were literally packed tight, eating this grain, breathing this horrible air, living in dark conditions and only a handful seemed to ever be outside, probably out of fear. The air was so thick and horrible, you could barely stand to be inside it and when you left, the smell stuck to your clothes and lungs to varying degrees depending on time spent inside. Every day, there were chickens that had died early for various reasons but all seemed relatable back to the conditions they lived in. With such a large "free range" place and how everyone working there regarded it as a high standard compared to other egg farms in Sweden, yet nobody wanted to work inside, I realised the whole industry was full of shit, similar to the UK and probably everywhere else in the world. The eggs did taste good though.
if poker is dangerous to them i would rank sports betting as a Kodiak grizzly bear who smells blood after you just threw a javelin into his cub - RaiNKhAN
On November 30 2017 12:47 VanDerMeyde wrote:
This is not UK, its Norway. We are way ahead in animal welfare. Yeah there are, we threat our animals very good here in Norway thanks. It is in the interest for the society to find those that are cruel to animals, because studies show people that are cruel to animals tend to also be violent to other humans (I would care anyway, but even for people that do not care about animals welfare it is in their interest to find and stop these people)
Not that this chronicle proved anything at all...
On November 30 2017 12:55 VanDerMeyde wrote:
I just realized the eggs I eat are even better than the ones called "from free range chickens". I buy organic eggs and these chickens walk freely outdoors outside winter here in Norway.
What about Swedish eggs? Because Swedes say the exact same thing and similarly take great pride in their eggs. I briefly worked at a Swedish egg farm (thankfully not dealing with hens) when I first moved there and "free range" meant that there was a 2-3 meter wide caged enclosure running the full length of the fully enclosed chicken-packed egg laying building with roughly 8 small portals in/out equidistant throughout the length. This building had multiple sections of feeding troughs and they were literally packed tight, eating this grain, breathing this horrible air, living in dark conditions and only a handful seemed to ever be outside, probably out of fear. The air was so thick and horrible, you could barely stand to be inside it and when you left, the smell stuck to your clothes and lungs to varying degrees depending on time spent inside. Every day, there were chickens that had died early for various reasons but all seemed relatable back to the conditions they lived in. With such a large "free range" place and how everyone working there regarded it as a high standard compared to other egg farms in Sweden, yet nobody wanted to work inside, I realised the whole industry was full of shit, similar to the UK and probably everywhere else in the world. The eggs did taste good though.
Fabric eggs... I would of course never consider eating that crap even thou its cheap. Thanks for pointing out the thing about "free range" chickens thou, but I buy ecologic eggs and they walk freely outdoor here outside winter. In the winter they have a lot more space and live a lot better indoor than the horrible conditions you describe. They cost a bit more, but thats should be fine. I think the quality should also be better + the chickens are truly happy chickens. I would never consider fabric chickens to be "free range", i guess my definition is different than the ones working for the fabrics. If anything, the eggs I buy are from farmers that truly care and protect them. And if so I see nothing wrong in eating eggs. If im wrong about ecologic eggs I have truly been deceived.
I mean I get the arguments, I just prefer to eat that tasty stuff and be viewed as an insane person or an asshole by vegans I guess. I have no moral problems eating any type of animal meat as long as its delicious tbh and dogs are heavily overrated regarding their intelligence. People mistook their loyalty and dedication for intelligence, which is actually contradictory.
I've never eaten dogs or cats, but thats cause of the society around me, would probably change if I went to China for example. I actually have no problem trying out all animal meet, which is the exact other end of the vegan spectrum.
I'd change the conditions under which those animals are bred if I had the power, but I would certainly not give up meat to do so. I know - I'm a part of the problem.
I guess I just don't understand why you even bother to ask the question "how is eating meat immoral?"
No, don't get me wrong - I do. I'm just okay with the fact that it's immoral.
This sentence is nonsensical. If morality has any meaning whatsoever, it's not possible to be okay with doing something immoral. The closest to "okay" would be, "I accept the facts, it's just that I don't have the motivation to act ethically". Don't get me wrong, I don't think it's despicable, unlike many of the ways people justify harming others, and I've been apathetic about it before as well due to depression, but it's just sad to me to think about how detached people are in this world to the point of literally funding torture knowingly, every day, and claiming to be ok with it. Weird times.
don't think I'd make a self-forceful conscious decision of going vegetarian (I'd say veganism is just extreme as views)
Long-term vegetarians are hypocrites and no less guilty of anything than omnivores. It's understandable to be vegetarian for some time in order to transition to veganism properly and that's it. What makes veganism extreme? I know it's socially extreme in most places, but we're talking about ethics here, appealing to the status quo doesn't have any value.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
I tried the vegan diet a while ago, paleo and other stuff. Ethically, I was with it for a while and I absolutely respect Vegans choice and their heartfelt respect for all life forms. However, I think we've got an identity crisis as human beings and ethics have came into what was a natural choice in the past: hunt, harvest from or slaughter weaker animals, prey on them and nourish yourself. Ethically, vegans and vegetarians flat out call this murder and claim it's wrong. I respect that point of view but it's not an objective truth. Murdering another animal for food is one of the most natural occurrences in the animal kingdom. We're predators in every aspect of our lives and I believe there's nothing wrong with it, we should embrace what we are and respect that some people feel differently. Obviously, to function as a society, some predatory actions shouldn't happen and imo there are too many people on the planet, it's a real problem but at this point I've pretty much accepted our self-destruction (whole other topic). Ultimately though, each view point on diet is just a stance at one particular moment in time and part of a journey, I see Loco seems to be fully vegan right now and I'm very glad it's working out for him. From a weight(health?)-conscious perspective, lb/kg/goals mean more than time. I wouldn't say I've found the perfect diet for me, I even did 30 days on a vegan diet recently as an experiment and tried my best to really do it and eat well but I felt very weak after 3-4 weeks, still completed the challenge but my conclusion was that I learned how to feed myself better than I did in the past with animal products and missing them I felt weak and unsatisfied. Just my 2 cents
Can you elaborate on the " We're predators in every aspect of our lives and I believe there's nothing wrong with it" part? It sounds outlandish to me at first glance.
There's two contradictory ideas in your post. One is that we'd be better off if we could go back to living "naturally", i.e. rewilding, but the other is an understanding that the population doesn't allow it -- and that we also prefer to live in a world that is civilized.
The first claim is dubious. We live longer than we have ever lived, and we know that we can live ridiculously long and healthy lives if we eat well on top of it (e.g. the Blue Zones). The second one seems to be a kind of dismissal of the problem through fatalism. Isn't that the surest way of making it a self-fulfilling prophecy, to say "we're self-destructive, we have to accept it and not try to do better"?
I'd like to hear more about your vegan diet experiment. What were you eating? Did you use Cronometer or something to track your nutrition? It sounds to me like you were maybe trying to lose weight? If so, that would explain why you would have felt weaker. I also wanted to lose weight when I started and I just focused on losing weight and after that I decided to gain weight (muscle). I had no problem doing both. It's a common thing people say when they try a vegan diet, but there is objectively nothing in animal products that would make you feel stronger if you're eating the same micros/macros as plant foods. It's just a matter of eating the right foods for that but most people assume it's the lack of animal products and they just give up altogether. I think there's some self-deception involved there because we really like the taste of those foods and we like to not be social outcasts (that's an understatement). Path of least resistance at work. I did that same mistake in the past and I'm glad I had the courage to try it again because it's been nothing but great for me.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On December 01 2017 14:48 Loco wrote:
This sentence is nonsensical. If morality has any meaning whatsoever, it's not possible to be okay with doing something immoral.
I disagree. In this case, it would take strong moral principles, which could easily relate to the top of Maslow's pyramid (self-fulfillment or whatever it was), while meat is more of a physiological need as I've been programmed to think that way - wouldn't be surprised if its passed genetically either. At this point, it would take too many efforts to accomplish close to nothing by throwing meat out of my nutrition thus I prefer to completely disregard it as an option. Obviously, this is all based on the fact that Maslow's pyramid is an axiom, which it isn't but proves to have been pretty accurate throughout time.
A bit further on the matter:
You'd need to make a large behavioral shift society on one of the deepest rooted necessity of our species, in order to make a change, which simply won't happen. I'd say pushing the antinatalism ideology is more likely than that. That being said, if large shifts in society should happen, we should probably first fix the issues of our species before thinking about saving the animals e.g. kid labor, discrimination of any sort, absolute poverty and etc.... I'd say the latter would come naturally after the former - pretty sure Stroggoz is hinting at that as well.
In all honesty, vegans are still passively helping the misery of animals whether they like it or not, by supporting the maximized profits model in their societies, which is basically the model of almost all societies atm... Most of the added suffering on any level is because of that model, but then again so is most of the progress.
I tried the vegan diet a while ago, paleo and other stuff. Ethically, I was with it for a while and I absolutely respect Vegans choice and their heartfelt respect for all life forms. However, I think we've got an identity crisis as human beings and ethics have came into what was a natural choice in the past: hunt, harvest from or slaughter weaker animals, prey on them and nourish yourself. Ethically, vegans and vegetarians flat out call this murder and claim it's wrong. I respect that point of view but it's not an objective truth. Murdering another animal for food is one of the most natural occurrences in the animal kingdom. We're predators in every aspect of our lives and I believe there's nothing wrong with it, we should embrace what we are and respect that some people feel differently. Obviously, to function as a society, some predatory actions shouldn't happen and imo there are too many people on the planet, it's a real problem but at this point I've pretty much accepted our self-destruction (whole other topic). Ultimately though, each view point on diet is just a stance at one particular moment in time and part of a journey, I see Loco seems to be fully vegan right now and I'm very glad it's working out for him. From a weight(health?)-conscious perspective, lb/kg/goals mean more than time. I wouldn't say I've found the perfect diet for me, I even did 30 days on a vegan diet recently as an experiment and tried my best to really do it and eat well but I felt very weak after 3-4 weeks, still completed the challenge but my conclusion was that I learned how to feed myself better than I did in the past with animal products and missing them I felt weak and unsatisfied. Just my 2 cents
Can you elaborate on the " We're predators in every aspect of our lives and I believe there's nothing wrong with it" part? It sounds outlandish to me at first glance.
There's two contradictory ideas in your post. One is that we'd be better off if we could go back to living "naturally", i.e. rewilding, but the other is an understanding that the population doesn't allow it -- and that we also prefer to live in a world that is civilized.
The first claim is dubious. We live longer than we have ever lived, and we know that we can live ridiculously long and healthy lives if we eat well on top of it (e.g. the Blue Zones). The second one seems to be a kind of dismissal of the problem through fatalism. Isn't that the surest way of making it a self-fulfilling prophecy, to say "we're self-destructive, we have to accept it and not try to do better"?
I'd like to hear more about your vegan diet experiment. What were you eating? Did you use Cronometer or something to track your nutrition? It sounds to me like you were maybe trying to lose weight? If so, that would explain why you would have felt weaker. I also wanted to lose weight when I started and I just focused on losing weight and after that I decided to gain weight (muscle). I had no problem doing both. It's a common thing people say when they try a vegan diet, but there is objectively nothing in animal products that would make you feel stronger if you're eating the same micros/macros as plant foods. It's just a matter of eating the right foods for that but most people assume it's the lack of animal products and they just give up altogether. I think there's some self-deception involved there because we really like the taste of those foods and we like to not be social outcasts (that's an understatement). Path of least resistance at work. I did that same mistake in the past and I'm glad I had the courage to try it again because it's been nothing but great for me.
I would say I felt stronger or at least better on a vegan diet. That could just be placebo because I wanted it to work but it could also be the fact that my nutrition was on point. For me I have to overcome the social outcast factor. I have never been able to do it. After about a week or two I stop missing a lot of the past high density tastes. I get urges or cravings but it is not really a big deal. I got to the point that going out to eat and ordering 3 sweet potatoes with out butter at a steakhouse was completely comfortable. I started working at a pizza shop and I just sort of slowly cracked up and once it rains it pours. I will eventually try again. There are a handful of meals a week that I eat vegan. Maybe more depending on the week. When I go out to eat or get fast food all bets are off. I could write more but I don't think it is necessary. Just sharing my experiences in relation to this. I want there to be more vegans in the world. I am happy we are having this discourse. It starts locally meaning myself but damn overcoming factory farming of animals is undeniably overwhelming. It feels like what is the harm of me having a burger a couple of nights a week if that? I am eating oatmeal, maple syrup, and almonds for breakfast now which is fantastic. A cheese pizza for lunch. Dinner is the wildcard. All it takes is for me to have a vegan pizza for lunch but I hate having to explain veganism to everyone at work. Dinner can be problematic if I am going out somewhere which I eat out often. The other nights it is whatever my mom is cooking and I love my mom's cooking. She is a vegetarian so butter is going to be in. It's better than fried chicken I suppose. It takes motivation to cook up soups like I used to. Oh well, this turned into quite a ramble. I am just figuring out where I failed in the past and how I could potentially make it work in the future.
On December 01 2017 18:19 VanDerMeyde wrote:
By the way Loco. My "temporarily weight loss" of 50 kg as you so called it. When will i gain it back ?
The way I see it you are headed for trouble. You are on an unsustainable diet. So then what do you do?
The weight loss is fantastic. You are in a really great position. Don't get cocky and blockheaded.
You are going to gain some of it back over the next 20 years almost surely. There is probably a fair chance that you gain it all back and then some.
Unsustainable ?
Man, there are many 1000's of people that succeds on this "unsustainable diet". And I also do intermittent fasting... There is no reason I will regain anything, acctually I just slowly lose the little fat I had less on by body.
But you and Loco seems to know that this one day will magically turn around :-) Dont hold your breath while waiting...
Acctually I think its more cocky to tell someone who had a lot of success that their diet is bullshit, that the people they listen to are scammers and their weight loss is "temporarily". Its fucking rude man I would never tell that to anyone, even if I disagreed with the way they did it. The normal thing would be to just congratulate him...Which you did - thanks !, but not Loco
According to a trend analysis conducted by leading sociologists, most Americans, rather than eating a series of meals with breaks in between, are now eating one continuous, uninterrupted meal throughout the day.
I wish one of your guys had children if I could kick them in the fucking head or stomp on their testicles so you can feel my pain because thats the pain I have waking up everyday -- Mike Tyson
On December 02 2017 12:32 VanDerMeyde wrote:
Here you have truly unsustainable:
According to a trend analysis conducted by leading sociologists, most Americans, rather than eating a series of meals with breaks in between, are now eating one continuous, uninterrupted meal throughout the day.
The opposite of what I do... But I am the crazy one, lol!!!
Quoting for post edit lulz
I wish one of your guys had children if I could kick them in the fucking head or stomp on their testicles so you can feel my pain because thats the pain I have waking up everyday -- Mike Tyson
On December 01 2017 18:19 VanDerMeyde wrote:
By the way Loco. My "temporarily weight loss" of 50 kg as you so called it. When will i gain it back ?
The way I see it you are headed for trouble. You are on an unsustainable diet. So then what do you do?
The weight loss is fantastic. You are in a really great position. Don't get cocky and blockheaded.
You are going to gain some of it back over the next 20 years almost surely. There is probably a fair chance that you gain it all back and then some.
Unsustainable ?
Man, there are many 1000's of people that succeds on this "unsustainable diet". And I also do intermittent fasting... There is no reason I will regain anything, acctually I just slowly lose the little fat I had less on by body.
But you and Loco seems to know that this one day will magically turn around :-) Dont hold your breath while waiting...
Acctually I think its more cocky to tell someone who had a lot of success that their diet is bullshit, that the people they listen to are scammers and their weight loss is "temporarily". Its fucking rude man I would never tell that to anyone, even if I disagreed with the way they did it. The normal thing would be to just congratulate him...Which you did - thanks !, but not Loco
You are a lucky one if your cholesterol and triglycerides don't get to unhealthy levels on a paleo diet. That is typically the first marker. It was for me. So then what. I went on a vegan diet and didn't gain any weight and my cholesterol and triglycerides got back to normal but that diet wasn't sustainable for me either so I went back to a Western/Southern diet anything goes. I gained all the weight back and then some. I went back on a vegan diet and lost most of the weight and then I stopped and gained it all back and then some. To not gain any weight back you would have stay on your current paleo diet and intermittent fasting. Which means you will have to not care about your heart health or increased risk of cancers. A one year diet is a flash in the pan really. Like I said you did a great job but true heroes go vegan. After seeing the facts it is difficult to acknowledge that vegan is not the best way to eat. Any big bad ass dieter should eventually funnel to that way. At least whole food, plant based if we are going to be blind on the ethics of it all.
On December 02 2017 12:32 VanDerMeyde wrote:
Here you have truly unsustainable:
According to a trend analysis conducted by leading sociologists, most Americans, rather than eating a series of meals with breaks in between, are now eating one continuous, uninterrupted meal throughout the day.
The opposite of what I do... But I am the crazy one, lol!!!
I would imagine you would like Ray Cronise. Check him out. I think he could be a guy to bridge you to the true way. Really interesting fasting guy. He was a NASA scientist that now spends all his time on diet/nutrition/weight loss. Got obsessed with cold therapies and weight loss which is another thing you might be interested in.
Kendra Sunderland does not have a very large, fruitful library on Pornhub. She is more about having a few stunners and likely saving the other good stuff for her website or other paid websites.
A really great orgasm is so great in that moment then it is like a bit of a fluttering maybe some mood change but like every other joy in this world it is so fleeting. Maybe we should cherish the moments. The butterfly saying hello, the sun saying goodbye. It's a matter of why don't I feel good? Make me feel good. Please make me feel good. We get caught in the gaps.
Back on the road again. Great... Off to a cozy meeting. I hope it makes me feel good. Drive back. Great... Read. Sleep. You ever have some nights that you just want to get a little wild? Have some raucous and rancor even if that is just in conversation? That is where I am at tonight. I am going to be disappointed and maybe resentful if that is what I am set on. Oh well, I have Tool for the ride up at least.
On December 01 2017 18:19 VanDerMeyde wrote:
By the way Loco. My "temporarily weight loss" of 50 kg as you so called it. When will i gain it back ?
The way I see it you are headed for trouble. You are on an unsustainable diet. So then what do you do?
The weight loss is fantastic. You are in a really great position. Don't get cocky and blockheaded.
You are going to gain some of it back over the next 20 years almost surely. There is probably a fair chance that you gain it all back and then some.
Unsustainable ?
Man, there are many 1000's of people that succeds on this "unsustainable diet". And I also do intermittent fasting... There is no reason I will regain anything, acctually I just slowly lose the little fat I had less on by body.
But you and Loco seems to know that this one day will magically turn around :-) Dont hold your breath while waiting...
Acctually I think its more cocky to tell someone who had a lot of success that their diet is bullshit, that the people they listen to are scammers and their weight loss is "temporarily". Its fucking rude man I would never tell that to anyone, even if I disagreed with the way they did it. The normal thing would be to just congratulate him...Which you did - thanks !, but not Loco
You are a lucky one if your cholesterol and triglycerides don't get to unhealthy levels on a paleo diet. That is typically the first marker. It was for me. So then what. I went on a vegan diet and didn't gain any weight and my cholesterol and triglycerides got back to normal but that diet wasn't sustainable for me either so I went back to a Western/Southern diet anything goes. I gained all the weight back and then some. I went back on a vegan diet and lost most of the weight and then I stopped and gained it all back and then some. To not gain any weight back you would have stay on your current paleo diet and intermittent fasting. Which means you will have to not care about your heart health or increased risk of cancers. A one year diet is a flash in the pan really. Like I said you did a great job but true heroes go vegan. After seeing the facts it is difficult to acknowledge that vegan is not the best way to eat. Any big bad ass dieter should eventually funnel to that way. At least whole food, plant based if we are going to be blind on the ethics of it all.
My good cholesterol is high and my bad cholesterol is low... Both values improved drastically since April I dont eat like what you would imagine I think.. I go in and out of ketosis. I dont mind vegan... i like vegan food, i have a few concerns about it but I would like to PM those to you I think.
On December 02 2017 12:32 VanDerMeyde wrote:
Here you have truly unsustainable:
According to a trend analysis conducted by leading sociologists, most Americans, rather than eating a series of meals with breaks in between, are now eating one continuous, uninterrupted meal throughout the day.
The opposite of what I do... But I am the crazy one, lol!!!
I would imagine you would like Ray Cronise. Check him out. I think he could be a guy to bridge you to the true way. Really interesting fasting guy. He was a NASA scientist that now spends all his time on diet/nutrition/weight loss. Got obsessed with cold therapies and weight loss which is another thing you might be interested in.
Aight I will check him out, thanks. I never heard about cold therapy before
On December 01 2017 18:19 VanDerMeyde wrote:
By the way Loco. My "temporarily weight loss" of 50 kg as you so called it. When will i gain it back ?
The way I see it you are headed for trouble. You are on an unsustainable diet. So then what do you do?
The weight loss is fantastic. You are in a really great position. Don't get cocky and blockheaded.
You are going to gain some of it back over the next 20 years almost surely. There is probably a fair chance that you gain it all back and then some.
Unsustainable ?
Man, there are many 1000's of people that succeds on this "unsustainable diet". And I also do intermittent fasting... There is no reason I will regain anything, acctually I just slowly lose the little fat I had less on by body.
But you and Loco seems to know that this one day will magically turn around :-) Dont hold your breath while waiting...
Acctually I think its more cocky to tell someone who had a lot of success that their diet is bullshit, that the people they listen to are scammers and their weight loss is "temporarily". Its fucking rude man I would never tell that to anyone, even if I disagreed with the way they did it. The normal thing would be to just congratulate him...Which you did - thanks !, but not Loco
You are a lucky one if your cholesterol and triglycerides don't get to unhealthy levels on a paleo diet. That is typically the first marker. It was for me. So then what. I went on a vegan diet and didn't gain any weight and my cholesterol and triglycerides got back to normal but that diet wasn't sustainable for me either so I went back to a Western/Southern diet anything goes. I gained all the weight back and then some. I went back on a vegan diet and lost most of the weight and then I stopped and gained it all back and then some. To not gain any weight back you would have stay on your current paleo diet and intermittent fasting. Which means you will have to not care about your heart health or increased risk of cancers. A one year diet is a flash in the pan really. Like I said you did a great job but true heroes go vegan. After seeing the facts it is difficult to acknowledge that vegan is not the best way to eat. Any big bad ass dieter should eventually funnel to that way. At least whole food, plant based if we are going to be blind on the ethics of it all.
My good cholesterol is high and my bad cholesterol is low... Both values improved drastically since April I dont eat like what you would imagine I think.. I go in and out of ketosis. I dont mind vegan... i like vegan food, i have a few concerns about it but I would like to PM those to you I think.
One could eat vegan and paleo at the same time. The thing about vegan is you can eat a bit more of the carbohydrates and feel really good and maintain weight or lose weight pretty easily. It's not like we are eating a bunch of sugar. No one can convince me that I should not be eating sweet potatoes. You don't have to just go full vegan. You don't have to do anything in the grand scheme of things. I am starting to trend back into vegan. I ate oatmeal with a little maple syrup and a handful of almonds for breakfast, lunch was bad because I was at work and the only thing to eat was a little bit of chicken tenders and fries, and for dinner I had a vegetable pizza. That looks like a nightmare for a ketosis guy and it is but you don't have to go that way. You could start with say some eggs in the morning and the avocado and whatever you said you liked to eat, then maybe like 4 oz of chicken with some roasted broccoli, and for dinner have a blue zones soup. Then you can move to vegetarian. Then you can move to full vegan and see how it goes. You can always revert back to the paleo. I would be happy to answer any questions over PM.
On December 02 2017 12:32 VanDerMeyde wrote:
Here you have truly unsustainable:
According to a trend analysis conducted by leading sociologists, most Americans, rather than eating a series of meals with breaks in between, are now eating one continuous, uninterrupted meal throughout the day.
The opposite of what I do... But I am the crazy one, lol!!!
I would imagine you would like Ray Cronise. Check him out. I think he could be a guy to bridge you to the true way. Really interesting fasting guy. He was a NASA scientist that now spends all his time on diet/nutrition/weight loss. Got obsessed with cold therapies and weight loss which is another thing you might be interested in.
Aight I will check him out, thanks. I never heard about cold therapy before
One of Ray's big things is that we are overfed and too warm. Winter never comes like it did for our ancestors. I've experimented with some of it. Like, leaving my windows open in the winter and using less covers, taking cold showers/contrast showers, swimming in cold water, the list is pretty long of things people do. Ray did a lot of work with that. There is stuff earlier in this thread. I know you don't like Loco but the video of him and Rhonda Patrick is really good. He was like 25 days into a fast and just completely normal. No problems. We don't have to eat. We schedule these lunches and dinners with people and overeat. We are fed for just about every waking hour and it's unnecessary. I could write more but I won't.
On December 01 2017 14:48 Loco wrote:
This sentence is nonsensical. If morality has any meaning whatsoever, it's not possible to be okay with doing something immoral.
I disagree. In this case, it would take strong moral principles, which could easily relate to the top of Maslow's pyramid (self-fulfillment or whatever it was), while meat is more of a physiological need as I've been programmed to think that way - wouldn't be surprised if its passed genetically either. At this point, it would take too many efforts to accomplish close to nothing by throwing meat out of my nutrition thus I prefer to completely disregard it as an option. Obviously, this is all based on the fact that Maslow's pyramid is an axiom, which it isn't but proves to have been pretty accurate throughout time.
A bit further on the matter:
You'd need to make a large behavioral shift society on one of the deepest rooted necessity of our species, in order to make a change, which simply won't happen. I'd say pushing the antinatalism ideology is more likely than that. That being said, if large shifts in society should happen, we should probably first fix the issues of our species before thinking about saving the animals e.g. kid labor, discrimination of any sort, absolute poverty and etc.... I'd say the latter would come naturally after the former - pretty sure Stroggoz is hinting at that as well.
In all honesty, vegans are still passively helping the misery of animals whether they like it or not, by supporting the maximized profits model in their societies, which is basically the model of almost all societies atm... Most of the added suffering on any level is because of that model, but then again so is most of the progress.
I don't understand the distinction between strong and weak moral principles. The number one definition for "principle" is "a fundamental truth or proposition that serves as the foundation for a system of belief or behavior or for a chain of reasoning." Once you've identified principles that improve your life and that of your community/others, you feel like you should strive to uphold them in every given situation. Thus, it's nonsensical to recognize a moral principle and say you're okay with violating it constantly. The reason you say you are okay with it, I think, is because you have not truly recognized the principle of not harming others for no good reason. Like most people, you almost exclusively think about what benefits you in any given situation, and you see no short term benefit of not exploiting animals.
The thing is that you are also wrong about that. You are wrong to think it wouldn't benefit you, it has great health benefits. You are just as wrong thinking that this is just some secondary matter. The way we exploit animals for food is the number one driving factor of climate change and environmental degradation, which impacts our species more than anything else. It's also a huge societal and economic issue, since it's the number one cause of self-brought chronic illness when combined with the overconsumption of processed foods.
"You'd need to make a large behavioral shift society on one of the deepest rooted necessity of our species, in order to make a change, which simply won't happen. I'd say pushing the antinatalism ideology is more likely than that. That "
Sorry, but there's so much wrong with these two sentences. This is an appeal to tradition and an appeal to futility. The fact that something is deeply rooted doesn't suggest that once you've recognized its immorality, you should dismiss the idea. You're saying the herd instinct drives your behavior entirely, and using that as justification for why it's futile to have moral principles in the first place. It's also not necessary at all, it's quite the contrary, animal foods are luxury foods, and our dependence on them has been nothing but damaging; if we keep doing it, we're screwed. Hence why we have people like Bill Gates investing fortunes in plant-based meats and lab-grown meats alternatives.
"while meat is more of a physiological need as I've been programmed to think that way"
This is a contradictory statement. Something that is culturally learned is by definition not a physiological need, but a mere habit. You're not a computer who has been programmed a certain way and is determined to repeat its programming forever.
P.S. Maslow's hierarchy of needs has been heavily criticized, I don't know why you're using it as some kind of justification, not that it has anything to do with your stance. I could just as easily use it for my own argument by saying that it is part of the last two levels for me (self-esteem and self-actualization), while it doesn't prevent anything on the below levels from being true. Though I'm aware that it's not everywhere in the world where you can easily do social dining with people as a vegan.
Vegans don't claim to live cruelty-free lifestyles, unless they are misinformed. They're trying to reduce the harm they cause, and the science is pretty clear that the two best ways to do that are by not having children and consuming a plant-based diet. I don't think it's fair to say they are passively supporting harm. No one chose the society they were born in, and many vegans are actively trying to push for a reform and sustainable living. It's also quite absurd to even consider these two things as equivalents, it's quite easy to choose bean burgers at the store instead of meat burgers. Not easy at all to reform society. You do what you can, and if a paradigm shift is on its way, you're on the forefront instead of waiting for society to tell you how to behave.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
You quoted the most famous news satire website as some kind of credible source of information to make a point. It just shows how gullible you are, hence why he quoted it, just in case you would want to remove it (since you often edit/remove stuff in your posts I guess). Little else needs to be said...
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
You quoted the most famous news satire website as some kind of credible source of information to make a point. It just shows how gullible you are, hence why he quoted it, just in case you would want to remove it (since you often edit/remove stuff in your posts I guess). Little else needs to be said...
I dont know about that source, it was posted on a huge norwegian facebook group about exercise/dieting, a general group. Anyway, you deny the point that americans eat too often ?
And you linked to some random blogger as "credible source of information to make a point" yourself LOL
Anyway, when will I regain my weight ? Im curious, you are such a great source of info... 2018 ? 2019 ? Im glad I disprove your bullshit every day i live <3 For this im gratefull
On December 02 2017 12:32 VanDerMeyde wrote:
Here you have truly unsustainable:
According to a trend analysis conducted by leading sociologists, most Americans, rather than eating a series of meals with breaks in between, are now eating one continuous, uninterrupted meal throughout the day.
The opposite of what I do... But I am the crazy one, lol!!!
I would imagine you would like Ray Cronise. Check him out. I think he could be a guy to bridge you to the true way. Really interesting fasting guy. He was a NASA scientist that now spends all his time on diet/nutrition/weight loss. Got obsessed with cold therapies and weight loss which is another thing you might be interested in.
Aight I will check him out, thanks. I never heard about cold therapy before
One of Ray's big things is that we are overfed and too warm. Winter never comes like it did for our ancestors. I've experimented with some of it. Like, leaving my windows open in the winter and using less covers, taking cold showers/contrast showers, swimming in cold water, the list is pretty long of things people do. Ray did a lot of work with that. There is stuff earlier in this thread. I know you don't like Loco but the video of him and Rhonda Patrick is really good. He was like 25 days into a fast and just completely normal. No problems. We don't have to eat. We schedule these lunches and dinners with people and overeat. We are fed for just about every waking hour and it's unnecessary. I could write more but I won't.
Winter is no problem here thou :D Yeah I know about fasting... I fasted for 14 days while working, its np. I told you many times in the thread that I was fasting a lot, but you (or rather Loco) decided only to focus on the part where I cut out SOME of my carbs... And how horrible this must be ! I have watched videos on fasting from the best people on this subject before I did it. Fasting was my main weapon to win my bet
From: VanDerMeyde
Posts: 4733
Subject: Re: hi
Date: 12/3 14:15
HU ? I can come down to your stakes for it
HU challenge LOL
I wish one of your guys had children if I could kick them in the fucking head or stomp on their testicles so you can feel my pain because thats the pain I have waking up everyday -- Mike Tyson
On December 02 2017 12:32 VanDerMeyde wrote:
Here you have truly unsustainable:
According to a trend analysis conducted by leading sociologists, most Americans, rather than eating a series of meals with breaks in between, are now eating one continuous, uninterrupted meal throughout the day.
The opposite of what I do... But I am the crazy one, lol!!!
I would imagine you would like Ray Cronise. Check him out. I think he could be a guy to bridge you to the true way. Really interesting fasting guy. He was a NASA scientist that now spends all his time on diet/nutrition/weight loss. Got obsessed with cold therapies and weight loss which is another thing you might be interested in.
Aight I will check him out, thanks. I never heard about cold therapy before
One of Ray's big things is that we are overfed and too warm. Winter never comes like it did for our ancestors. I've experimented with some of it. Like, leaving my windows open in the winter and using less covers, taking cold showers/contrast showers, swimming in cold water, the list is pretty long of things people do. Ray did a lot of work with that. There is stuff earlier in this thread. I know you don't like Loco but the video of him and Rhonda Patrick is really good. He was like 25 days into a fast and just completely normal. No problems. We don't have to eat. We schedule these lunches and dinners with people and overeat. We are fed for just about every waking hour and it's unnecessary. I could write more but I won't.
Winter is no problem here thou :D Yeah I know about fasting... I fasted for 14 days while working, its np. I told you many times in the thread that I was fasting a lot, but you (or rather Loco) decided only to focus on the part where I cut out SOME of my carbs... And how horrible this must be ! I have watched videos on fasting from the best people on this subject before I did it. Fasting was my main weapon to win my bet
Winter is a problem though because we eat more and then sit in our warm houses. We add extra covers that are unneeded. In winter the food should be scarce and the cold stress should be immense. If Ray had his way we would all be huddled in caves fasting producing brown fat from the cold stress. The fat on our bodies would melt away just in time to get active and start eating fresh produce in the spring and summer. In winter we are either bundled up or have the heat on and overfeeding starting with Thanksgiving. I knew you were fasting. That's why we are trying to get you onto Ray Cronise because we think it could get you to the next level or at least give you valuable knowledge. From there it can branch out into Dr. Joel Fuhrman, Rich Roll... those are the only 2 I can think of at the moment but those can branch out into others. Don't just camp yourself in the echo chamber of paleo. Branch out a little bit and see if you can get closer to the "truth." What resonates? Re-evaluate. I am always better off when I do this. Find people with good motives. I was drawn into Jordan B Peterson from some interviews and some of his lectures but as time went on I still value some of those psychology lectures but he is far from any sort of messiah. Far too traditional and perhaps simply just pandering to his own echo chamber for big patreon money.
The coolest thing is that you have lost the weight. You can lose more weight if you want. You can probably get more active and feel good if you want. You can focus on longevity if you want. Get to where you want to be and buy a really nice tailored suit or get to a good maintain place and do the same. I am telling you it is difficult to maintain really great shape forever especially as we age. It is only natural. It is difficult for me to maintain fighting weight in jiu jitsu if I am not competing in jiu jitsu. If you want to live to 100 and be healthy a calorie restricted vegan diet is the best way.
Why do you think these experts know more about it than Jason Fung and the guys i linked to
By the way, they made the exact same point as you about winter... Not saying Ray Chronise is not good, but he didnt add any knowledge about fasting that I have not heard before...
what echochambers ? Not sure what I do is even called "paleo". I never read any paleo book or heard any of these guys even use the word paleo before...
On December 03 2017 15:18 uiCk wrote:
From: VanDerMeyde
Posts: 4733
Subject: Re: hi
Date: 12/3 14:15
HU ? I can come down to your stakes for it
HU challenge LOL
What a shocker you had no balls to accept it..
Thats all you are to me you know, some potential fish that could donate some $$$ to me at the tables. Much like drunk live fish here that talks crap :D
(btw will not respond to u anymore or read your posts, u are just a retarded forum troll not worthy of my time)
Why do you think these experts know more about it than Jason Fung and the guys i linked to
By the way, they made the exact same point as you about winter... Not saying Ray Chronise is not good, but he didnt add any knowledge about fasting that I have not heard before...
what echochambers ? Not sure what I do is even called "paleo". I never read any paleo book or heard any of these guys even use the word paleo before...
Whatever. Do what you are going to do.
When I was doing paleo which is ketosis and fasting and all of that everyone was saying the same things. Well at least the sect I was in. You can see it early in the Truth Discussion Thread from me. There is an echo chamber in vegan and plant based circles too the difference is it is supported by good science.
We are in agreement on the intermittent fasting. No one is saying that is bad but no one can convince me that eating a lot of sweet potatoes is bad. It was the cornerstone of the Okinawan diet who outside of plant-based 7th Day Adventists are historically one of the healthiest and have the most quality longevity of any area in the world. You never hear about low carb people living to a quality 100 years.
Why do you think these experts know more about it than Jason Fung and the guys i linked to
By the way, they made the exact same point as you about winter... Not saying Ray Chronise is not good, but he didnt add any knowledge about fasting that I have not heard before...
what echochambers ? Not sure what I do is even called "paleo". I never read any paleo book or heard any of these guys even use the word paleo before...
Whatever. Do what you are going to do.
When I was doing paleo which is ketosis and fasting and all of that everyone was saying the same things. Well at least the sect I was in. You can see it early in the Truth Discussion Thread from me. There is an echo chamber in vegan and plant based circles too the difference is it is supported by good science.
We are in agreement on the intermittent fasting. No one is saying that is bad but no one can convince me that eating a lot of sweet potatoes is bad. It was the cornerstone of the Okinawan diet who outside of plant-based 7th Day Adventists are historically one of the healthiest and have the most quality longevity of any area in the world. You never hear about low carb people living to a quality 100 years.
My honest experience with it: Paleo works great for weight loss and in a normal job. But for me it doesnt work well with poker. So I eat a more "smart carb" based diet. And sweet potatoes are fucking awesome. I fucking love sweet potatoes dude. Baked in oven for 1 hour + some garlic butter is my favourite. And I play great poker with them.
I think they showed that fasting and intermittent fasting could potentially increase life span (they showed it in animals, dunno about humans). My guys say its good to go in and out of ketosis. If you stay in ketosis all your life its not good (and it would not imitate out ancestors eighter, a lot of paleo guys get this wrong). But beeing a "sugar burner" all your life is probably not good eighter. To get into ketosis you have to fast or eat very low carb... So even when eating smart carbs I get into these circles a lot and they seem to work good/great.
Maybe we dont disagree as much as you think. A lot of the misunderstanding is comming from canadians in the thread talking / assuming im only eating egg/bacon. I noticed a lot of people go berserk if u even say the word "low carb".
We all need touch. A hug, a handshake, a high five. Some coitus. You know I am still thinking about this woman. It is funny how she still enters the psyche. I can't seem to shake her. I need someone new. Perhaps no one can replace her or be her but someone else will have to do.
I miss taking ecstasy and dancing. I miss dancing. I still dance sober but I have to be feeling it. I don't think I lose myself as much unless I am dancing alone. Yes, I dance alone. I wish to lay my head in a large breasted Italian matriarch's bosom and have a good cry. Actually, not right now. I would rather start there and go down. It is forecasting rain in Pussytown. Dear, I am not over her still. I always wanted to be a guy who was fucking models. Like I always thought that that was realistic for me. Like I could get one night stands with models up until the age of say 24 or not that I could but that that was a great goal. I don't know if there is even anymore to add there just a soft laugh and move on. I don't want to turn this into another chick ramble but that is what it is turning into. I will just say now I get attracted to 18 year olds. There was one at work that was very sexy and very sexual and naive on some things but really quite mature for her age. I fantasized about fucking her. She quit though and I will probably never see her again. I think we have been over this before but the true way at this point is probably online dating and looking for 24 year olds if I can pull it and I am surely open to 30 yr olds, 40 yr olds, probably not 50 yr olds but you never know. If there is a cougar that could teach me good BDSM I would definitely be down but really this is someone that I am looking forward to spending time with. Someone, most importantly, that I can have a conversation with. It all adds up though. Superficial conversation and napalm in the sack is valuable in its own ways.
It's weird that some of the most exciting women I have encountered where we have this unique spark of sexual tension are red heads natural and artificial. Something about redheads. I dated this black doctor and she really could have been the one for me if I didn't have a debilitating drinking problem. I kept it together enough when I was around her and maybe that is something she saw in me or something. Beauty and the Beast type of situation. I have seen it before. One woman that was always prudent to take off my boots and tuck me in when I was passed out drunk. I don't think I have the status to date doctors anymore. I will probably have to take fast food workers, single moms, chubsters, et al.
I am going to have to get a better job if I am ever going to pay my father back. I was thinking about that a lot last night and today. Economic insecurity does not go away unless I am doing everything I can but am I? Everything is great until a car insurance bill comes in or I have to get some work done on my car. I don't want to spend to much time on getting a new job because we have been over this a bunch of times before but that might always be looming over my head. I think most people are thinking about this elusive better job that may or may not exist.
I miss dancing though. I miss drumming. I want to DJ at least once. I want to make my own clothes. I want to design a woman's outfit, tear it off of her body, and fuck her with care and attentiveness.
I remember when I go manic and psychotic I think Rihanna is singing to literally me and just me. I keep expecting her to call me. I get frustrated that I have no way to contact her. It feels like I am in a dream. No drugs except psych meds are totally the way to go for me although I sometimes miss the not too escalated levels of mania.
Oh, I also forgot. I love black hair, black eyes, black dress. That is a killer combo for me.
Is it possible to overcome my bad habits? The answer is obviously yes in some cases but I wonder about all cases.
I spent a lot on stupid grooming type products last month. The only one worthwhile was the body wash which smells amazing and I have gotten compliments.
I have about 2 months expenses in the bank and it just seems to stay around there or move up a little bit so I just kind of have to keep a lot of the things the same. I have to get creative on how to have fun. Luckily, AA meetings are cheap and I have to eat so if I can do so socially at a reasonable place it isn't too bad. Certainly, wasting money on grooming products should be out and I took care of that by taking a #2 to my hair and trimming my beard about once a week at around 10 day growth. It's a good look for me even though I get ideas of getting some kind of amazingly unique hair cut that is going to instantly make me cool and attract everything I want to. I had a really amazing hair stylist in Pittsburgh. She was the best. She created about that and while I got comments it wasn't revolutionary or anything plus it took like 10-15 min. to get it where it needed to be and I was looking in mirrors constantly.
I gotta start dancing again though.
So, how are you feeling right now?
I hope well. I am doing a lot better than I was about 4-6 months ago. Change can be tough. Being unemployed is horrible. I think the circadian rhythm is really important. I am waking up at dawn and driving into work at 8 am sun which feels really good. As I get home from work the sun starts to go down which I think has a relaxing effect. I don't know why I am getting so high just listening to music and writing stupid shit. I really have nothing better to do or maybe I do. I just did my bills. I could be searching for a job. I could be working out..... Eureka, maybe I will check out a gym in the area.
I need a life. I am trying to break into this meeting but it has been frustrating to get to know people. My share today I had trouble speaking and froze up. It was really weird. I recovered and rambled on. That is one of those moments where you wonder what people think about you. I think one of Loco's keys to life was not to care what other people think about you. I want friends. It is a hard road. It really is but I should enjoy my days off. I wanted to get wild again tonight a bit but then a song called work hard, play hard came on about doing drugs and getting no sleep and I was like ugggghhhhhhhhh NO THANK YOU.
Just let me dance.
I just want to dance. Free from time travel until I am there in the future. Continuing until there is no future. Only absence of future. Absence of everything to infiniti. Fear of death! Is illness more terrifying? These delicate meat vessels parading through time and space. Give me some love. Please I need some love.
Love and connection. That is what I am looking for. Sometimes I have it right before my eyes and I don't realize it. Too much mired down in the muck of self-obsession.
I want to have sex on cocaine. That would require me to do cocaine which I should not do.
I think if I had more money and my own place I could acquire a pretty bad hooker habit and a cocaine habit for that matter.
I am trying to live a more serene and peaceful life these days. I have to.
I should not of had that espresso with dessert tonight. I should not have had that dessert after dinner tonight. Story of my life when I go out to eat. I am wired right now. Maybe I should give the dog a walk. That's what I'll do.
On December 03 2017 19:35 RiKD wrote:
[QUOTE]On December 03 2017 16:44 VanDerMeyde wrote:
RiKD
Why do you think these experts know more about it than Jason Fung and the guys i linked to
By the way, they made the exact same point as you about winter... Not saying Ray Chronise is not good, but he didnt add any knowledge about fasting that I have not heard before...
what echochambers ? Not sure what I do is even called "paleo". I never read any paleo book or heard any of these guys even use the word paleo before...
A lot of the misunderstanding is comming from canadians in the thread talking / assuming im only eating egg/bacon. I noticed a lot of people go berserk if u even say the word "low carb".
Maybe because that's exactly what you said you were eating at the time. You also linked to the scientologist who advocated eating less than 50g of carbs per day in the form of low carb vegetables, mostly lettuce. You said it was thanks to him/his diet that you lost the weight. Now you've changed your story, you're doing "smart carb" and eating sweet potatoes.
I said that keto was unsustainable but it can take a few years before people fall off the wagon. You've proven me right, except you've fallen off even earlier and you're now rationalizing. Whatever dude.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On December 03 2017 19:35 RiKD wrote:
[QUOTE]On December 03 2017 16:44 VanDerMeyde wrote:
RiKD
Why do you think these experts know more about it than Jason Fung and the guys i linked to
By the way, they made the exact same point as you about winter... Not saying Ray Chronise is not good, but he didnt add any knowledge about fasting that I have not heard before...
what echochambers ? Not sure what I do is even called "paleo". I never read any paleo book or heard any of these guys even use the word paleo before...
A lot of the misunderstanding is comming from canadians in the thread talking / assuming im only eating egg/bacon. I noticed a lot of people go berserk if u even say the word "low carb".
Maybe because that's exactly what you said you were eating at the time. You also linked to the scientologist who advocated eating less than 50g of carbs per day in the form of low carb vegetables, mostly lettuce. You said it was thanks to him/his diet that you lost the weight. Now you've changed your story, you're doing "smart carb" and eating sweet potatoes.
I said that keto was unsustainable but it can take a few years before people fall off the wagon. You've proven me right, except you've fallen off even earlier and you're now rationalizing. Whatever dude.
I havent changed ANYTHING AT ALL. No he does not advocate to do the same thing every day, this was his entire point acctually. (But you choose to attack him for his religious views instead of disussing his arguments)
"I said that keto was unsustainable but it can take a few years before people fall off the wagon. You've proven me right, except you've fallen off even earlier and you're now rationalizing."'
LOL, how clueless and arrogant is it possible to be !? (often correlated i noticed)
1. Acctually this is also not correct. There are essential fats and there are essential protein. Which essential carbohydrates are there ? Look it up in your medical book and tell me the answer.
2. My sister has been on keto for years and has not fallen off the wagon btw, so she also disprove your theory.
3. Even If I was on extreme low carb diet without switching it up it would be possible to have some sweet potatoe. Low carb is defined as 100g or less carbs per day. Salads and green vegetables have very little carb/100 so there is a lot of room even if this was the case for it.
I believe fasting and feasting is even better, so I do that. Look it up and do not tell me what I do or what I am not doing. You have no clue about me. So do not pretend
I follow these 3 guys and I never changed anything after I started this bet (except made a few mistakes in Apri) And every day me + these guys prove you wrong that I would regain all the weight. (What kind of asshole says this to someone anyway ??) I take great pleasure in it <3
On December 04 2017 14:28 RiKD wrote:
That third video looks like an advertisement for Hot Rox. Paid bodybuilders gain weight and then lose it. What is that guy selling?
Pretty rough accusation dude ... (uncharacteristic for you) I found the the same before/after photos here, with story sent in to berg.
"Below is a small number of reviews at The Health & Wellness Center. We are in the process of adding all of them. These success stories are all real and given freely with no paid incentives. The written reviews are on the left side of the page and the video reviews are on the right side."
I am rubbing my eyes. I am stretching out the kinks. It feels like there are more kinks. Blast that espresso last night.
What do people feel about full moons? Can they effect mood? It feels like I am a lunatic but I have never read any science to back that up.
Does anyone ever look in the mirror and get depressed? I don't know if it is my vanity or my soul. It might be about not putting in the thyme in the Italian dressing. That is like a festering one. I just think I didn't sleep particularly that well last night and am having a hard time waking up. After a burger and fries and ice cream I feel a bit fatter and a bit crueler.
I am listening to Moderat. I have to be weary of not going too depressed. If I am listening to too much Radiohead, Moderat, and Trentemoller and not leaving the house that spells trouble. I think I was pretty high on dopamine for whatever reason yesterday and am feeling slightly down for the moment or I am just thinking too much into all of it. Why am I writing this stuff like all the time? It is in some effort to unleash what is on my mind in hopes of getting to the bottom of something. It is true that if I am listening to Moderat and Trentemoller and not leaving the house I am in the danger zone. When I write that it seems to become more real, more believable, more understandable. I have a serious mental illness. When I don't take drugs and take the drugs the doctors prescribe my life gets a lot better. When I talk to a therapist about these things my life gets better. I don't think a lot of people understand bipolar. I think they think it makes people swingy, emotional, dramatic. That is not true for me. I am mostly pretty calm. People might not be able to tell if I am just a bit depressed. People may not be able to tell when I am a bit manic but both cases can ramp up. People will not be able to tell that I am really depressed because I won't be leaving the house. If it starts ramping up the other way people may even like me better. I will be more outgoing and funny and sexual until the psychotic kicks in and then it is pretty clear something is wrong with me if people are paying attention. If I am yelling at the moon that I am not ready to go there yet I think it is pretty obvious something is not right. Oh well, I have learned to manage it ok. The current drug cocktail seems to be working pretty well with out any major side effects.
Like, this is what I am listening to today:
Actually, this is a classic:
I saw them live in Argentina. Really high. It was great. We were so high. My friend was freaking out because he thought the security saw us smoking. I thought he was just messing with me but then I started freaking out a bit too. Then I forgot about that and just enjoyed the show. I think that is why marijuana is a good drug for poker. If one gets the right amount high the game becomes really stimulating but you have a short memory. You don't get caught up in the past hands too much and then there is a cool spot and you get fascinated by it. Put some good music on that is not too distracting and I could play forever.
I know what I said about Trentemoller but this is a beautiful song:
I would like to fuck to that song. Some goth nordic chick with pale skin, jet black hair, and light blue eyes in black lacey lingerie.
Who has a type? Are there people that have types?
Oh this world and its worldly things.
Another LCD Soundsystem:
Let's all get innocuous! I am doing my best to not cause harm but am I really? I can't seem to curb the burger and ice cream habit.
Ahhhhhh, Paris, what a lovely place. If anyone has any inkling of going you absolutely have to. I was enchanted the full time I was there. One of the best trips I have been on. I love that city. Some peaks had to be the Luvre gardens, the Luvre, la Orangerie. I actually like la Orangerie maybe more. It was custom built to house large scale Monet and contains many many other brilliant impressionist artists. There is a Rodin kiss outside in weathered bronze. Champs Elyssee. My French spelling is bad. Hell, my French is almost non-existent I just love the city. I was there with someone who could speak a bit and understand a bit and I just smiled and said what I could and everyone was wonderful. I think it is because i showed so much enthusiasm for the food and the culture and the people. That French accent is powerful. I fell in love with every waitress I encountered pretty much.
It brings up a question though. We have these transcendent experiences traveling... well, we can have transcendent experiences anywhere but I think getting completely jutted out of our everyday lives in a magical place like Paris can have a more pronounced, more profound effect. Probably similar to going to Asia. I wish to go to Tokyo next.
This isn't a bad one from deadmau5:
My favorite album of his is Random Album Title. I thought about seeing him in 2008 when I was in Argentina but I saw David Guetta instead. It was worth it. Love is Gone live in Argentina was amazing. The live shows in Argentina just have more spirit to them. Although I have gone to some good raves in the States. It just seems to be more posing in the States. Argentina is just more lawless and a bit wild. Don't get me wrong there is posing in every club but a large festival just brings out the feel good.
I just found myself browsing some pornography. It loses its luster let me tell you but it was weird one of those sites popped up where it is like a message board and the woman gets tokens for doing stuff. My friend did that. He would get full of crystal and do that to pay for the crystal. He played up the classic twink for the camera but is actually a very smart guy and a deep thinker. Things people do for money but after meeting a handful of sex workers in recovery it kind of changes the perspective of it all. The entertainers are in some part sick and the consumers are in some part sick. I don't think it will ever go away though.
I don't know why I am averse to chubby girls. I am a bit chubby. It would be a nice date. We could eat burgers and fries and have some ice cream for dessert and make coitus. "Models were made for modeling, thick girls were made for cuddling" - Andre 3000
I think, ya know, it's just got to be sort of the right kind of proportions. Loosely. Overweight is one thing, obese is another. I don't like really tiny girls either but there are exceptions.
On December 04 2017 14:34 PetterPLO wrote:
Loco you have very dishonest way to discuss.
Telling someone they will gain all their weight back after a much needed weight loss is extremly low.
Just because it's not fun to hear the truth doesn't mean it's dishonest to tell it. I've studied in this field extensively and I am making evidence-based claims. If you are a pro poker player and someone who started a few months ago tried to justify their misplays or even worse, they tried to teach you how to play, would it be "extremely low" of you to point out their mistakes?
Anyone who is knowledgeable about nutrition and lifestyle medicine will tell you that what people need is not just weight loss, it's long term weight maintenance. Millions of people crash and burn on fad diets and you're saying that it's a bad thing to try to educate them because it might hurt their feefees. It's not my fault that people are dogmatic about food and they can't objectively look at the information presented to them if it goes against their deeply held beliefs.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On December 04 2017 14:28 RiKD wrote:
That third video looks like an advertisement for Hot Rox. Paid bodybuilders gain weight and then lose it. What is that guy selling?
I'm going to give another poker analogy to follow up with my previous post. Imagine browsing YouTube videos of poker tournaments and cash games because you want to learn to win at poker. You end up reading the comments and using the advice of the people in the comments. You just don't know any better, you don't know of the existence of LP and 2+2, so YouTube seems like a gold mine, people seem to know what they're talking about.
This is what Vandermeyde does but with nutrition. He listens to people with no expertise because they seem to know what they're talking about. "Dr." Berg is of course another sham chiropractor who has no business giving nutrition advice. You know someone should be avoided when all they have are testimonials and zero studies to back up their claims (which are often demonstrably false). It's also quite typical of them to avoid discussing science, because they end up looking very bad when they do. One example was Gary Taubes vs Stephan Guyanet and Alan Aragon. Also Dr. Campbell vs Dr. Eric Westman.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
I was out eating burgers with some guys. A sane sexual life may not be easy to come by for us alcoholics. One is still not over his x-girlfriend and was creeping on all sorts of women until he got drunk. Another is banging hookers every day. Another said there is no time in his life for any sort of dating so he just doesn't date and is happy taking care of his kid and dog. Then there was me who I have written enough about my dating life. Then there was another guy who is having drama with his current girlfriend and ex-girlfriend. I found the right group of people! It was a good time though. Better than writing words on here.
Does anyone on here have a solid relationship and could share how that happened?
No one, huh. We should all go the way of the asexual except we presumably enjoy sex or we would already be asexual. I enjoy sex. You know, sometimes it is not all it is cracked up to be and then other times it seems like the most important thing on the planet.
I just got off the phone with an old friend and we had a great conversation. That sure beats writing more words on LP but I couldn't think of who to call next. Sitting outside on a picnic table in December shooting the shit is hard to beat. I just said shooting the shit. Who says shooting the shit? I just did.
I am writing these words like I can just come to some realizations. The thing is I have come to some realizations through writing shit here.
I should have called my friend Ryan. We have not spoken in a while and that is who I should have called.
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Liquid`Drone Norway. Dec 07 2017 07:30. Posts 3093
I got a swell relationship, we've been together for like 11 years now. I found a girl that I totally clicked with on a personality level, that I shared interests with, that I knew had feelings for me, and then I told her I loved her and that I'd like for us to be together. You seem to be way, way too influenced by your carnal desires for stuff to work out similarly, tbh. Go for sanity first.
On December 07 2017 06:30 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I got a swell relationship, we've been together for like 11 years now. I found a girl that I totally clicked with on a personality level, that I shared interests with, that I knew had feelings for me, and then I told her I loved her and that I'd like for us to be together. You seem to be way, way too influenced by your carnal desires for stuff to work out similarly, tbh. Go for sanity first.
That's awesome. Are you married? I think I give bonus points to people who are dedicated partners but not married. It's just something I do. I don't think I give extra extra points for open partnerships but I can respect a relationship like Sartre and Beauvoir.
It might be interesting to debate marriage. I don't remember that ever happening on here.
Re: carnal desires and sanity
The thing is in this moment as I write this I am about as sane as I get. It ebbs and flows I suppose. Perhaps I write a lot on here about carnal desires. I don't know if that is what is holding me back. I don't know if it is self-esteem. It could just be reality. I feel that living at home with my parents and my current budget it would making dating difficult but people are doing it. My co-workers are doing it. My friends are doing it. They are making it work.
Sometimes I listen to The Weeknd and hear about him smoking blunts, doing cocaine, and fucking bitches. Every song is like that. Sometimes it is entertaining. Most of the time I have to just turn it off. That is not a life to strive for or perhaps maybe it is in someone's teens and twenties and beyond if they can manage. I need to find a woman who is into like Stimming or something like that.
How would my carnal desires get in the way of a developing relationship?
Which makes me think do I even want a relationship?
Eventually, that is some aim but I am aiming for fun and dating first.
On December 07 2017 00:10 RiKD wrote:
The thing is I have come to some realizations through writing shit here.
How many of them have been actionable? Can you sincerely say that these realizations have led to betterment in your life?
There is the realization that I need AA. That I just need to get out there and find meetings that I like. That I need to go to a lot of them and put myself out there to meet people.
I just had the realization that I am not interested in a relationship so shouldn't be putting pressure on myself. Yeah, it is not the "strongest starting position" to date a little overweight, living at home, without much of a budget but if I want to do that i should. The next realization is that you know what maybe I don't want to date right now and am content with just meeting people and having fun which goes back to the other realization that I can take action and go to meetings and introduce myself to people and share in the meeting and stay and talk after the meeting and go to the restaurants after the meetings and so on. I have been doing this and my life is better.
Another one is that pornography is kind of silly but if you want an inspired handjob it can be a necessary evil. I shouldn't be looking for handjobs to make me feel better. It can be a trap to look at anything external to make myself feel better. Obsessing over pornography or handjobs or sex is not healthy for me. I can talk to people about it. I can help people. If I am being of service in some way that problem typically goes away.
I have been calling people a lot more than coming to this website. I have been doing things a lot more than coming to this website. Sometimes I think I just get filled up and it spills out on here. I am typically on here in the gaps. I realize that this website is or can be an addiction for me. A trap. I can get hooked. Perhaps we are all better off not posting here but it is tricky because at least I have learned a lot on this website. I went through the Truth Discussion Thread a week or so ago to find something and then just browsed it a bit and I was like damn that is a lot of good information I didn't have a year or so ago. Mortenson is obviously the worst but in a way some of those guys are a good thing because they lead to discussion where it becomes pretty obvious what is the "truth."
Well, it's good that there has been improvements. I still don't think you need AA, what you need are relationships and a community like everyone else. AA is just the path of least resistance towards that at this point in time. Same with liquid poker. The only reason I am here is because of that. It's not LP itself that's valuable and which motivates my activity, it's the absence of something else.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
Ok. LP may not be valuable in the sense that it has much effect on my motivation but it can order my thoughts a little bit in a way that certain things become more clear. Sitting at home doing nothing is a better motivator. I see what you are saying that LP is an easy way out when I would otherwise be sitting at home staring at the wall. There probably always is something I could be doing that would be better than posting on LP but there are certainly a lot of worse things I could be doing too. Searching for jobs is one that pops up. Everyone decided to go home after the meeting today so I can't really hang out with anyone at this point. I could clean my room... I could watch Jordan Peterson lectures... The point is I am tired. I am winding down for sleep. I will eventually hit the novel I am currently reading but why not stop into LP for a bit?
AA may be the path of least resistance but it is also where I will likely find the most quality relationships and community. I go hang out with friends from work and they are all on ecstasy and cocaine. They are also quite young. Why would I mess around with meetups or other avenues if I can meet at least 150 quality friends in AA? It's not like AA is just 100% old Jesus freaks. I think part of your opinion of AA may have been formed by some of my harsh, negative rants. I don't even remember exactly what I said and there was probably a lot of truth to it.
Do you have many fellow vegan, anti-natalist, athiest friends?
I have 0 that would qualify. I am just a hypocritical vegan though. I have some anti-natalist/athiest friends. More of those is something I would be interested in seeking out. That and death cafes. I have asked some people about it and it did not seem like such a warm reception.
Human connection is the opposite of addiction. I know you are a fan of that ideology. I am too but I think there is more to it than just that. In order to get some human connection it would be wise for most cases to take the steps. Also, to get mentored a bit by the people who are living sober lives successfully. I know I did not know how to live life sober and I needed some education and support. If someone were to take me out of the situation I found myself in at the depths of my alcoholism and put me in whatever my version of a rat park would be I could see that working but that is not realistic and I am also not sure that it would work. I was pretty shaken up. For example, in rehab everyone had a bbq. I sat in the corner under a tree chugging water bottles wishing it were wine or whiskey crying.
It is interesting what kind of friends we end up with though. One thing real quick that a lot of my closest friends have in common is that we are all athiest. A lot of open minded, free thinkers. After that it is just more like do we have fun together? Do we make each other laugh? Proximity is the obvious number 1 factor. In a way I think we just see people a lot and if they are cool then we just go with it.
I have a pretty low opinion of people in general, so no, I don't have a lot of friends. I used to have a large number of friends, but I pretty much burned all my bridges a long time ago. I've been part of some vegan/antinatalist/atheist communities online over the years since then but I've also distanced myself from them. I don't find 99% of these people remotely interesting. There's only so much you can say on these topics anyway, so what you find there are a lot of obsessive people who have opinions but there's never any progression in their thinking. The repetition of it all and the mundane exchanges depresses me after some time. I don't care to try to meet people, I've made zero attempts to do that in a decade or more. I'd just like to have one or two good friends who share some of my specific interests.
The problem for me is two-fold. Most people haven't been able to avoid the typical cultural imprinting and they are severely corrupted by mass culture, unconsciously so, of course. I avoided that imprinting so I'm a deviant. The second part of the problem is that I'm also extremely lucid and self-critical. People who go off the beaten path are typically delusional or dogmatic, so I don't get along with them. They're more interesting than the normies to be sure, but not more interesting than my own company. I've resigned myself to the idea that it won't get much better than this because a life that is truly worth living is not possible for people like me in this day and age. That's something I understood from Hermann Hesse a decade ago and it has been confirmed to me several times. I've been in a relationship with a woman for about 8 years with whom I live, so I get plenty of human contact which keeps me sane despite the lack of other meaningful friendships.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
Human connection is the opposite of addiction. I know you are a fan of that ideology. I am too but I think there is more to it than just that. In order to get some human connection it would be wise for most cases to take the steps.
It's not that it's the opposite, it's that addiction is what we have to turn to when we cannot satisfy our social and symbolic needs which are absolutely fundamental. So of course there is a lot more to that than simply saying "if you can meet people often enough you will be able to beat your addictions". Often times, we dislike ourselves so much that it doesn't matter that we have friends, these connections are worthless and will remain so for as long as we avoid dealing with our demons.
I think taking the steps of any program has little to do with wisdom, the steps exist because there is tremendous need for guidance and support in our society. The millions of self-help books, videos and programs are a symptom of our sickness as a society. It has next to nothing to do with individual shortcomings or choice. The problem is structural, it's the post-modern condition. There's no particular program that offers a lasting solution to a fragmented self. The closest one can get to a solution is by carefully studying the condition itself, working on the diagnosis. The more aware of the condition, the less of a puppet you become. That's what I sincerely believe -- there are degrees of freedom, and the higher ones are achievable by cultivating an increasing awareness of oneself as a biological self but also as a socio-historical self. Understanding what it means to be human and how the world has shaped us are the only steps that I see worth taking. The rest might have temporary therapeutic value, and that's worth something to be sure, but on its own there is no tangible long-term progress to be made there. It cannot replace a real education and the kind of intellectual/spiritual efforts that lead to a robust sense of self-worth.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On December 08 2017 11:59 Loco wrote:
I have a pretty low opinion of people in general, so no, I don't have a lot of friends. I used to have a large number of friends, but I pretty much burned all my bridges a long time ago. I've been part of some vegan/antinatalist/atheist communities online over the years since then but I've also distanced myself from them. I don't find 99% of these people remotely interesting. There's only so much you can say on these topics anyway, so what you find there are a lot of obsessive people who have opinions but there's never any progression in their thinking. The repetition of it all and the mundane exchanges depresses me after some time. I don't care to try to meet people, I've made zero attempts to do that in a decade or more. I'd just like to have one or two good friends who share some of my specific interests.
The problem for me is two-fold. Most people haven't been able to avoid the typical cultural imprinting and they are severely corrupted by mass culture, unconsciously so, of course. I avoided that imprinting so I'm a deviant. The second part of the problem is that I'm also extremely lucid and self-critical. People who go off the beaten path are typically delusional or dogmatic, so I don't get along with them. They're more interesting than the normies to be sure, but not more interesting than my own company. I've resigned myself to the idea that it won't get much better than this because a life that is truly worth living is not possible for people like me in this day and age. That's something I understood from Hermann Hesse a decade ago and it has been confirmed to me several times. I've been in a relationship with a woman for about 8 years with whom I live, so I get plenty of human contact which keeps me sane despite the lack of other meaningful friendships.
I don't know. That sounds good enough to me. I see what you are saying about being a lucid, self-aware deviant. I think being a little delusional or dogmatic can be forgiven if they are good company. Maybe not though. I am thinking of all my best friends and I think the most important thing we have in common besides proximity is we just like spending time together for whatever reason. I think a big one is that stories resonate.
"A life that is truly worth living is not possible for people like me in this day and age." It can be argued that no life is worth living. I won't go that far because I don't have the consciousness of other people. I would say my life seems worth living. I don't really think about it too much at the moment. Suicide is bad so my life would have to get a lot worse or I would have to get really depressed or both. Even if my life got significantly worse I am sure I could still find worth whether that is rationalizing or not.
I don't really want to go into a pep talk about there are more similarities than differences in people and blah blah blah but I thought about it so I am writing at least this much. You do come off as thinking that you are better than everyone and no one is good enough for you. If you want friends you will figure out a way. It goes back to your observation that LP is a surrogate. Well it is but there is also some decent discourse on here to make me feel less lonely. It is not as good as getting a group of people on a patio and having quality discourse but it does pass the time better than staring at a wall.
Would you go to a Death Cafe in Montreal?
I mean there are a lot of interesting people in the world or maybe there aren't but there are enough interesting people. I have found one of the keys to finding these interesting people is to say "yes" to some things you really might not normally say "yes" to or feel comfortable saying "yes" to. That can snowball into consistent quality opportunities in one's free time. Or, you could say fuck all this I just want to read. I don't think reading or creating is ever a bad choice.
Human connection is the opposite of addiction. I know you are a fan of that ideology. I am too but I think there is more to it than just that. In order to get some human connection it would be wise for most cases to take the steps.
It's not that it's the opposite, it's that addiction is what we have to turn to when we cannot satisfy our social and symbolic needs which are absolutely fundamental. So of course there is a lot more to that than simply saying "if you can meet people often enough you will be able to beat your addictions". Often times, we dislike ourselves so much that it doesn't matter that we have friends, these connections are worthless and will remain so for as long as we avoid dealing with our demons.
What is a symbolic need?
Demons are dealt with pretty well in the AA steps. Forget all the higher power and God stuff in the fourth step one takes a deep look at his/her resentments, fears, and sexual conduct. I started to see a lot of patterns and insights. Telling someone the nitty gritty of my past and having a discussion about it was unbelievably freeing. Forget about wishing away defects of character. Making amends is cool and helps be a part of society again. I am not sure if a better way exists. In step 1 we understand alcoholism. In step 2 we understand we are going to need something sufficient enough to replace the alcohol. Some like to call it God we can just call it human connection here. Then we are put in rooms with 30 or more people that many of those people have been living sober successfully for many years.
I think taking the steps of any program has little to do with wisdom, the steps exist because there is tremendous need for guidance and support in our society. The millions of self-help books, videos and programs are a symptom of our sickness as a society. It has next to nothing to do with individual shortcomings or choice. The problem is structural, it's the post-modern condition. There's no particular program that offers a lasting solution to a fragmented self. The closest one can get to a solution is by carefully studying the condition itself, working on the diagnosis. The more aware of the condition, the less of a puppet you become. That's what I sincerely believe -- there are degrees of freedom, and the higher ones are achievable by cultivating an increasing awareness of oneself as a biological self but also as a socio-historical self. Understanding what it means to be human and how the world has shaped us are the only steps that I see worth taking. The rest might have temporary therapeutic value, and that's worth something to be sure, but on its own there is no tangible long-term progress to be made there. It cannot replace a real education and the kind of intellectual/spiritual efforts that lead to a robust sense of self-worth.
What is a real education?
Can a self be everlastingly non-fragmented?
The steps of AA offer a solution to not drink. They don't offer a solution to be content all the time. That's why I seek elsewhere as well (especially since the most common suggestion in AA would likely be prayer to a (Christian) God)). I would agree that the biological self and socio-historical self are very important to analyze. Yes, the world would definitely be better off if we focused a lot of energy on understanding what it means to be human and how the world has shaped us. If we did this we might all decide to commit suicide hand in hand. Likely though a lot of good changes would come from it. Individually I would probably find a bit more of that contentment and peace.
I guess when you're a recluse there is no way around not coming off like you think you're better than everybody else. It's not about that though. It's like that Carlin joke.
My tolerance level has become very low over the years and I haven't been fortunate enough to meet truly worthwhile people, which I know exist. The problem is as much about me not being worthy of other people's friendships as it is me thinking other people aren't worthy of my friendship. I'm kind of stuck in the middle. I can't take most people seriously since they are corrupted by mass culture, but I also can't be taken seriously by the people I'm interested in, "the elite", since I haven't put anywhere near the amount of work they have into "becoming someone". So instead I experience the minds and creations of such people through art and literature as much as I can. I certainly don't feel better than everyone on a daily basis, I haven't produced anything of any worth contrary to those people I enjoy and learn from, so how could I?
I am making a distinction between a life that is truly worth living and one which is just worth enough to keep living. I wouldn't argue that no life is worth living (or was ever worth living), I find the idea that I could know that to be absurd. I would go to a death café, mostly to listen to people. I joined the meetup group for it.
Symbolic needs are the needs that Becker talks about, which lead to our immortality projects.
However, in the post-modern world we need an education that deals with the complexity of our world and the many things we have learned from science since that ancient period. This briefly touches upon some pressing needs for education reform:
Can a self be everlastingly non-fragmented?
Not anymore, unless you live in some isolated religious culture which is ignorant of the works of people like Marx, Freud and Nietzsche.
The steps of AA offer a solution to not drink. They don't offer a solution to be content all the time. That's why I seek elsewhere as well (especially since the most common suggestion in AA would likely be prayer to a (Christian) God)). I would agree that the biological self and socio-historical self are very important to analyze. Yes, the world would definitely be better off if we focused a lot of energy on understanding what it means to be human and how the world has shaped us. If we did this we might all decide to commit suicide hand in hand. Likely though a lot of good changes would come from it. Individually I would probably find a bit more of that contentment and peace.
The thing with AA and other self-help and guidance programs is that people are not educated about the structural problems that have led to their addictions, like they would be if they were studying these thinkers. The effort is solely put on controlling the symptoms of the structural issues. They're trying to make you functional, not knowledgeable.
It isn't correct to say they offer a solution not to drink. Religion and belief in a "higher power" can be said to be a solution to everything, but it isn't. What allows you not to drink is the knowledge that you can't moderate it and the support that you receive in your resolution not to drink. It has nothing to do with the steps or a higher power, and everything to do with the community/supporting environment. The same could be achieved elsewhere if the environment was just as supportive.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On December 09 2017 14:54 Loco wrote:
I guess when you're a recluse there is no way around not coming off like you think you're better than everybody else. It's not about that though. It's like that Carlin joke.
I didn't accuse you of thinking your were better than everyone just that you come off that way. I have been reclusive in my past and I get it. I think one thing that helps me is I have been told I have a great smile, a relaxed, knowing smile. I am not very talkative in groups and I think my smile saves me. I do better with one on one or small groups of say 4. I don't see you carrying around a lot of pomp. It is probably in your favor that I would imagine there are a lot of universities in Montreal. I have never really sought out people in academia. I have a decent number of friends in academia but that is mostly math and science.
My tolerance level has become very low over the years and I haven't been fortunate enough to meet truly worthwhile people, which I know exist. The problem is as much about me not being worthy of other people's friendships as it is me thinking other people aren't worthy of my friendship. I'm kind of stuck in the middle. I can't take most people seriously since they are corrupted by mass culture, but I also can't be taken seriously by the people I'm interested in, &quot;the elite&quot;, since I haven't put anywhere near the amount of work they have into &quot;becoming someone&quot;. So instead I experience the minds and creations of such people through art and literature as much as I can. I certainly don't feel better than everyone on a daily basis, I haven't produced anything of any worth contrary to those people I enjoy and learn from, so how could I?
I guarantee there is like an associates professor out there in some form of philosophy or science that you would get along great with. I guess that is my ideal of someone in the middle and maybe ideals are not trustworthy and how does one meet these people?
I hear you on the mass culture. If some one is wearing nikes and on snap chat it is hard not to disqualify them.
You could still feel better than the people that have not put as much work in as you have. It would be difficult to feel better than Rodin or Monet or Nietzsche but that doesn't mean you don't feel better than Mortenson8 or VanDerMeyde or random guy indoctrinated by mass culture. Do you think it is random guy's fault? This is where I take a more deterministic viewpoint because getting away from mass culture is a pretty difficult thing to do and probably not likely for most people. It takes a certain amount of intelligence but also maybe a streak of anti-socialness. That is not the exact word I want to use. I could use open mindedness, free thinking but I wanted to stress that it could be conceived as a mostly negative trait especially by many ra ra ra mass culture/symbolic need fanatics.
I am making a distinction between a life that is truly worth living and one which is just worth enough to keep living. I wouldn't argue that no life is worth living (or was ever worth living), I find the idea that I could know that to be absurd. I would go to a death café, mostly to listen to people. I joined the meetup group for it.
I would be interested to hear how the death cafe goes.
Symbolic needs are the needs that Becker talks about, which lead to our immortality projects.
However, in the post-modern world we need an education that deals with the complexity of our world and the many things we have learned from science since that ancient period. This briefly touches upon some pressing needs for education reform:
Not anymore, unless you live in some isolated religious culture which is ignorant of the works of people like Marx, Freud and Nietzsche.
The steps of AA offer a solution to not drink. They don't offer a solution to be content all the time. That's why I seek elsewhere as well (especially since the most common suggestion in AA would likely be prayer to a (Christian) God)). I would agree that the biological self and socio-historical self are very important to analyze. Yes, the world would definitely be better off if we focused a lot of energy on understanding what it means to be human and how the world has shaped us. If we did this we might all decide to commit suicide hand in hand. Likely though a lot of good changes would come from it. Individually I would probably find a bit more of that contentment and peace.
The thing with AA and other self-help and guidance programs is that people are not educated about the structural problems that have led to their addictions, like they would be if they were studying these thinkers. The effort is solely put on controlling the symptoms of the structural issues. They're trying to make you functional, not knowledgeable.
What thinkers?
I don't know what structural issues you are referring to exactly but the Big Book and also many people within AA do spend a lot of time on structural issues that cause alcoholics to drink. It is very knowledge based.
It isn't correct to say they offer a solution not to drink. Religion and belief in a &quot;higher power&quot; can be said to be a solution to everything, but it isn't. What allows you not to drink is the knowledge that you can't moderate it and the support that you receive in your resolution not to drink. It has nothing to do with the steps or a higher power, and everything to do with the community/supporting environment. The same could be achieved elsewhere if the environment was just as supportive.
There is a lot of knowledge about oneself to be acquired through doing the steps. The first step is all about understanding that we can not moderate alcohol and we seem to have a mental obsession regarding it. The most common &quot;higher power&quot; is g.o.d. or a group of drunks. That is basically the community and support you are talking about. Step 4 we get more knowledge about ourselves and why we drank. 6 and 7 we get more accustomed and knowledge about pitfalls. 8 and 9 we mend our past. Step 12 gives us meaning in helping others. The steps allow us to overcome our past and become one with the world again. Quality human connection is difficult with out taking the steps and getting support through that process. Could there be a better way of doing it? There is no doubt about it in my mind but as it currently stands it does work. AA is stuck in 1935 and far too many traditionalists but it does work. It was the only thing that worked for me. That doesn't mean it is the only thing that would have worked for me but I don't really know of anything more promising as it stands today.
Of course not. I said I avoided the typical cultural imprinting, but not that I consciously did so. A big part of that was due to prolonged illness (debilitating anxiety) when I was young, so I came to know alienation from a very young age. I didn't choose that. I later chose to cultivate myself in solitude but without the prior experiences that would not have happened. And even for that to happen I had to be pushed in multiple ways by forces beyond my control. It was more of a compulsion than choice. If nothing went terribly wrong in your life, you'll just be a well-adjusted product of your culture, there's no debate about it and no reason to blame anyone for who they are (or aren't) based on this.
What thinkers?
I don't know what structural issues you are referring to exactly but the Big Book and also many people within AA do spend a lot of time on structural issues that cause alcoholics to drink. It is very knowledge based.
I've named them. Nietzsche, Freud, Marx.
Listen to this classic series by prof Roderick to understand what I mean re structural issues not discussed in twelve steps programs. He specifically talks about twelve steps programs.
It does work
According to a 2006 Cochrane Review (one of the most reliable and objective source of information there is): "No experimental studies unequivocally demonstrated the effectiveness of AA or TSF (Twelve step Facilitation) approaches for reducing alcohol dependence or problems" and "Severity of addiction and drinking consequence did not seem to be differentially influenced by [twelve-step programs] versus comparison treatment interventions, [...] and no conclusive differences in treatment drop out rates were reported."
I've no doubt the whole process and supporting environment has worked for you, but that's not to say something else couldn't have worked even better (as you said). If that's the best you found and it has improved your life a lot, then by all means, I have nothing against it. I just think that however much knowledge you think those steps have brought you, it's not enough. I think that's fairly obvious from all of your blog posts as well. This whole time that you've been blogging sober you have been looking for answers that this book and those people are not able to offer you.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On December 04 2017 14:34 PetterPLO wrote:
Loco you have very dishonest way to discuss.
Telling someone they will gain all their weight back after a much needed weight loss is extremly low.
Just because it's not fun to hear the truth doesn't mean it's dishonest to tell it. I've studied in this field extensively and I am making evidence-based claims. If you are a pro poker player and someone who started a few months ago tried to justify their misplays or even worse, they tried to teach you how to play, would it be "extremely low" of you to point out their mistakes?
Anyone who is knowledgeable about nutrition and lifestyle medicine will tell you that what people need is not just weight loss, it's long term weight maintenance. Millions of people crash and burn on fad diets and you're saying that it's a bad thing to try to educate them because it might hurt their feefees. It's not my fault that people are dogmatic about food and they can't objectively look at the information presented to them if it goes against their deeply held beliefs.
The keto diet burns ten times more fat than a standard American diet – even without exercise, research suggests !!!! ( So even with BIG handicap, keto diet crushes)
They found that that those following the low-carb plan advocated by the diet saw the most health benefits compared to those on a typical diet, whether the latter carried out physical activity or not (!!!)
The keto group saw significantly better results even without physical activity
They were compared to those on a standard diet – with and without exercise
They had lower weight, body fat percentage and body mass index (BMI)
Also had lower blood sugar levels and more ketones which break down fat
PUBLISHED: 14:22 GMT, 14 December 2017 | UPDATED: 08:51 GMT, 15 December 2017
I wish one of your guys had children if I could kick them in the fucking head or stomp on their testicles so you can feel my pain because thats the pain I have waking up everyday -- Mike Tyson
United States. Nov 27 2017 22:45. Posts 8522
