All courtesy of Teamliquid.net and it's crazy BW fanatics who keep up with the game 24/7
On March 22 2017 00:52 tractatoss wrote:
For those who want to know notable players signed up for ASL S3, here is the list:
*Players within the brackets are seeded.
Terran (FlaSh, Sea) NaDa, Last, sSak, Mind, Organ, Mong, sKyHigh, Light, Rush, firebathero, Berserker, Sharp, ClouD, Leta
Bigger prizes, Nal_Ra, NaDa and Firebathero playing the qualifiers means this will be even bigger and hopefully one of the old timers make it through (highly unlikely lol). Everything ASL 3 related will be updated in this thread so keep an eye if this pops up on top.
if poker is dangerous to them i would rank sports betting as a Kodiak grizzly bear who smells blood after you just threw a javelin into his cub - RaiNKhAN
blackjacki2 United States. Apr 18 2017 08:52. Posts 2582
Looks like we are going to have a real good distribution of races for the Round of 16. So far we have:
4 zerg
3 terran
4 protoss
With 5 spots left. Already that's looking to be better than last season when we only had 2 zerg in the round of 16. We just need at least 1 more T and 1 more Z to keep it from being Protoss heavy like the round of 24
Looking at the games so far it seemed could be even worse than that. I think protoss players can have better results if they just did a standard greedy 1base cors/dt into nat nexus build. It defends well against almost everything and it seems the only build that can guarantee a gas expansion.
39% vs 61% (41-26) really is pretty bad. I just looked at 10 random maps I knew had been played quite a lot (>= outsider), and with the exception of ride of valkyries, where zvp is even worse (47-23), not a single matchup had more than 58% going one way. Honestly it's remarkable how balanced many of them are. Tau Cross is actually 64-64 tvz, 67-67 zvp, and 64-59 pvt.
Clearly "Outsider" map grossly favors Z over P which is obvious given how many ZvPs gifted Zergs six spots here. I'm not complaining though, ZvZ is infinitely better than TvT
and tvz is the best matchup, and that we'll get plenty of.
Wonder if bisu makes it, very tough group for him, very entertaining group as well. All 4 can make it, soulkey was awesome in the team tournament and the other 3 have been among the best..
Flash on the other hand looks extremely comfortable. Group D is tough as well. And C is the only one I don't really care about, although it's nice if we can get 2 p's for later stage.
lol POKER
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blackjacki2 United States. Apr 26 2017 14:58. Posts 2582
Wow very disappointed with the groups. We had a great distribution of races for final 16 and we have only 1 group with all 3 races. 2 groups with 3 of 1 race.
Zergs are merely surviving on 2 hatches doing creative lurk/ling/scourge before FlaSh kills the third, they finally get swarm and FlaSh slowly wraps up the game shortly after smh. FlaSh's bio looks so scary six lurkers don't mean shit
Great lineup today!!! Starting anytime nao!
Bisu - no.1 in afreeca for april 80% winrate vs even flash last etc
Soulkey - unlocking Flash and Terran in general
Effort
Sea
damn that multitasking by bisu, i couldn't catch up and I'm just watching lol
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CrownRoyal United States. May 05 2017 14:08. Posts 11386
Have you ever watched bisu in FP?
It's actually hard to enjoy watching because he plays so fast, it's really impressive.
I was watching him play a 3v3 on hunters and he was controlling units perfectly in two different parts of the map while not messing anything up mechanically at home.
On May 05 2017 13:08 CrownRoyal wrote:
Have you ever watched bisu in FP?
It's actually hard to enjoy watching because he plays so fast, it's really impressive.
I was watching him play a 3v3 on hunters and he was controlling units perfectly in two different parts of the map while not messing anything up mechanically at home.
On May 05 2017 13:08 CrownRoyal wrote:
Have you ever watched bisu in FP?
It's actually hard to enjoy watching because he plays so fast, it's really impressive.
I was watching him play a 3v3 on hunters and he was controlling units perfectly in two different parts of the map while not messing anything up mechanically at home.
link
I can't be bothered to find that random 3v3 I watched but this website is pretty godly
OMG JAEDONGGG (((( such fucking nervewrencing game vs last. When he had those drops come through and almost destroy lasts base. Fuck terran imba. I swear they better release a patch to balance it out
OMG JAEDONGGG (((( such fucking nervewrencing game vs last. When he had those drops come through and almost destroy lasts base. Fuck terran imba. I swear they better release a patch to balance it out
OMG JAEDONGGG (((( such fucking nervewrencing game vs last. When he had those drops come through and almost destroy lasts base. Fuck terran imba. I swear they better release a patch to balance it out
All I see is better player won
i dunno man, everytime i see top tier TvZ all I see is Z trying to survive unless they win with muta or some other short game. The mech switch just owns Z so hard. They literally cant do anything because tanks and mines destory defilers/lurks/ultras
OMG JAEDONGGG (((( such fucking nervewrencing game vs last. When he had those drops come through and almost destroy lasts base. Fuck terran imba. I swear they better release a patch to balance it out
All I see is better player won
i dunno man, everytime i see top tier TvZ all I see is Z trying to survive unless they win with muta or some other short game. The mech switch just owns Z so hard. They literally cant do anything because tanks and mines destory defilers/lurks/ultras
It could very well be as you say, however I believe this game was a bit different. JD was doing very well. The losing point was when he suicided all the mutas from the muta switch to kill a couple more tanks in late game. Had he kept them and used them with the actual army he would have taken a gigantic lead at that point. He was behind in eco and made like 20 mutas, they would have been very useful to clean mines and allow lings to travel the map unharmed. Tank count was cleared and Last would have needed to make way more goliaths to hold ling+ultra+defiler+muta. It seemed more like a throw rather than imba this time.
OMG JAEDONGGG (((( such fucking nervewrencing game vs last. When he had those drops come through and almost destroy lasts base. Fuck terran imba. I swear they better release a patch to balance it out
I disagree, Last maintained a 1:1 base ratio, as a Zerg you cant allow that and expect to win, Jaedong made good strategic plays that turned the tides of the game, that drop with lurker swarm, the top left drop and the mutaswitch worked perfectly but he got sloppier and sloppier, he didnt clear mines at all and lost dozens of Ultras to them and basically rallied small armies to their death in bad spots, all his dark swarms were a failure near the end, just a lot of mistakes and as I said, you cant win if you make any mistake if you have a 1:1 base ratio
Last had more bases than JD which was very worrying. I think it's because T>Z and Z cant expand because T makes it very hard for Z to get 3rd exp and so on. And that map's other gas bases are in the middle and so easy for T to take down so JD didnt even try to exp into there.
But yeah Last is supposed to be the best right now anyway so maybe JD just isnt good enough. It's just that top Z's are having really hard time beating top T's at this stage.
6 bases T vs Z's 4 is lol in BW math. In the highest levels T has really become too OP, Terrans just sucked back in 1.07 that's why they couldn't deal so they nerfed Z's pool and P's Psi storm research cost and damage. Back then people weren't really using mechs this efficiently where at no point will the best Terrans be in any danger of rushing while taking a natural and BBS with SCVs practically kills most P and Z openings
Depot Barracks simcity solves zeal rush already
Terrans don't even wall anymore, and they even expand safely
Players have become so good at glitching workers even five pooling with slow lings will be murked by 60hp scvs in Elite Terrans hands
All I've noticed very recently is that Terrans can safely take a natural every game
Last edit: 10/05/2017 11:29
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NMcNasty United States. May 10 2017 16:33. Posts 2041
Yeah honestly in JD's two losses it did seem as if Terran was OP. JD didn't really make any egregious mistakes, Terran turreted up liberally (10 turrets in last game!) took center with M&M/vulture, and then just had a huge advantage. It was actually pretty impressive JD could even make an even base ZvT into a game.
It was a typical map control/better army composition and less bases (JD) vs many bases/worse army/no mobility situation(Last). It comes up reasonably often in longer games. It's usually a better and easier to play position for the guy with map control, especially if his army has better mobility. The key to win this situation is to preserve core units (because they produce a snowballing effect when they are in a bigger army vs smaller army situation) and only try to lose the expendable ones.
In the first game JD played really bad after he reached hive tech. There was a point where he could have crushed terran push but he used his defilers worse than a D- guy on iccup would. Other than that I think he played incredibly well but these games are too high level, you can't afford to make gigantic mistakes in key situation and expect to win.
Last edit: 10/05/2017 17:03
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Liquid`Drone Norway. May 10 2017 18:23. Posts 3096
The last game had a point where it was really close, even after reaching 6 t vs 4 z bases. JD shouldve kept adding lurkers to his army (swarm + 1 lurker halts any terran push), but it's incredibly difficult to keep macroing really precisely and efficiently when so much stuff is going on. Anyway, Last got a big early game advantage, Last is top 2 terrans, and JD still almost managed to come back through a brilliant mid game. And in the game vs Ssak, he just didn't perform at the best of his ability.
Anyway, there is a current t>z imbalance, but it can be fixed through playing other maps. 3 player maps inherently disfavor terran (for example if you look at tau cross, which is the most balanced map ever stats wise,
the way that map is designed allows zerg to get to 5 bases with only 3 total ground entry points. That makes vultures way less effective, and it makes swarm+lurker defense way stronger. They can also reduce the buildable terrain, especially behind natural minerals, to make muta harass more effective. I expect some changes to future map pools to factor in that terrans seem to dominate zergs on maps where it's possible to split it in half.
if poker is dangerous to them i would rank sports betting as a Kodiak grizzly bear who smells blood after you just threw a javelin into his cub - RaiNKhAN
T vs Z - Mong was a former B-teamer pro who never really improve up until he was given time to catch up during Brood Wars hiatus, he did well in SSLs but with the return of the better players has his hands full. Shine was a Sc2 observer, who already has a wife and kids and is surprising people by not only qualifying the Ro24 but also amazingly is still in the round of 8, with a decent chance of getting to the round of 4. Shine has shown very solid veteran play, and crafty strategies so far, but Z is hard pressed vs T as of late.
You've definitely got a better chance mixing it up with old/new strats in hopes to throw off either alphago or god
Bisu is pretty much drawing dead here lol
The best ASL by far, we got Soulkey vs Best on sunday, whoever wins has got a very decent chance against either FlaSh or LaSt
Meanwhile Bisu vs Shine has got some history between them, it's been said that Bisu has always had trouble (and mostly lost) against Shine's unorthodox builds, more so now that Shine has got some confidence and momentum.
I can't believe they don't make the players play in sound proof booths. You can hear thr audience yelling stuff as Best goes for DT drop in game 5 then SK starts to move overlords to his main. I've heard conflicting things on if the pros can hear anything but why risk it. Ruins the feel of the game if you have to wonder if the pros are getting tipped off by the audience.
I can't believe they don't make the players play in sound proof booths. You can hear thr audience yelling stuff as Best goes for DT drop in game 5 then SK starts to move overlords to his main. I've heard conflicting things on if the pros can hear anything but why risk it. Ruins the feel of the game if you have to wonder if the pros are getting tipped off by the audience.
I played several tournaments in SC2 where players could clearly hear casters. Like in German EPS finals you could hear german casters while playing and in french ESWC (Super big international tournament) french commentators could be heard crystal clear. In fact that tournament was won by Stephano (french player) way too easily. Whenever I asked why stuff wasn't soundproof the answer I was given was that it costs too much money and it was implied tournament organizers weren't incentivized to put the money for that purpose because it wouldn't bring them much benefit at all.
Bisu vs Shine - rejuvinated bisu and shine battle it out, best pvz toss vs unbelievably creative player with many gears to his cheese/rushes. Where bisu is strong will not matter that much vs this zerg, really exciting games
Soulkey vs T(last or flash) - another creative and tactical zerg vs either of the two best Terrans around, they're basically one player really.
Finals could be:
Bisu vs Flash/Last - Highly likely, nergasm of a series, prepare for the most epic hyyyype
Shine vs Flash/Last - Very nice backstory David vs Goliath, sentimental favorite in Shine vs inhuman FlaSh
Not so epic outcomes would be:
Shine vs Soulkey - Very unlikely,
Bisu vs Soulkey - Not likely, still decent games
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blackjacki2 United States. May 22 2017 09:21. Posts 2582
I feel safe knowing i have Bisu and Flash/Last standing between us and a mirror finals.
I'm so excited for him to meet FlaSh in the finals, he beat him in the ro24 so he is not backing down at all.
Every other player plays like a worse Flash, Bisu and Jaedong, i hope this changes so we see more variance in the matches
omg i dont think anyone can play how he plays or prepare for him for that matter, you could clearly see bisu on the defensive the whole series, like he allready was behind since every first skirmish.. how can you think of all the variables and "prepare" vs players
the way he plays reminds of how boxer was before, like a league above his opponents but in a very unorthodox manner
if he demolishes flash like he did vs a very prime bisu now, he kinda breaks the paradigm in a way
crazy. The only way shine can win is basically doing something tricky though. I reckon flash will go on offensive to keep shine busy so he cant do sneaky shit.
Shine is a ghost this series, Flash will try to look for what he's up to, that's adding infinitely more pressure on FlaSh
I won't discount that Shine wins it all haha
blackjacki2 United States. Jun 01 2017 02:07. Posts 2582
Glad to see some 4pool and 9pool speedling strats. It seems to me Terrans have been far too confident in moving out on the map vs zerg. You even see them send out 5 rines to force a sunken. I'm hoping for some tricky and aggressive strategies from Shine to keep Flash on his heels instead of immediately conceding map control and trying desperately to secure a 3rd. Maybe some burrowed lings or hold lurker.
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Liquid`Drone Norway. Jun 01 2017 14:42. Posts 3096
agreed. Loved the 4pool as a 'fuck your proxy rax' response.
Somehow top terrans always seem to know if hold lurker is happening. the 6th sense is kinda absurd. What I want is more alliny backstabs. So many terrans move out with their entire army to stop zerg's third, and then zergs use their army to try to fight the army instead of sacrificing their third and going allin on the natural.
Stoked for the final. Loved following this season.
if poker is dangerous to them i would rank sports betting as a Kodiak grizzly bear who smells blood after you just threw a javelin into his cub - RaiNKhAN
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YoMeR United States. Jun 02 2017 19:10. Posts 12438
lol it's like Flash never left...back to being God.
that said i'm rooting for shine...such a great underdog story
The season was better than the final lol gg. Oh well at least we went on some weird path where tactics became important again, seems like mechanics like FlaSh Bisu is still king in this game
Last edit: 10/06/2017 01:05
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FrinkX United States. Jun 04 2017 14:32. Posts 7562
sighhh i knew that would happen. Flash is not only a mechanical god. But also god of prep work. He easily read into all shine's tricks and dismantled him for ezpz 3-0..so disappointing.
Yeah dropping in his main isn't really something Flash won't be ready for, when Shine has constantly done that in previous games leading up to the finals
good stuff pops up once in a while, but nothing as cool as ASL. i really hope they have more productions of that quality, watching ASL has fully gotten me back into bw
The Finals was an unfortunate letdown, FlaSh too good for disruptive tactics, his specialty is shutting down cheese and safely expo'ing to get his macro going which is just as impeccable.
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Sweden. Apr 12 2017 13:32. Posts 4472
(((( such fucking nervewrencing game vs last. When he had those drops come through and almost destroy lasts base. Fuck terran imba. I swear they better release a patch to balance it out
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