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whamm!   Albania. Jul 07 2015 01:38. Posts 11625

From dog meat festivals, gutter oil industry, fake eggs/rice/canned meat, no respect for patents or copyrights our Chinese brethren just obviously don't follow any kind of rule that is not imposed by their own government, and their government doesn't seem to care


Rumored to be banning Ramadan(lol bravo) Turkey butthurt about uyghurs not able to practice, which has really been China's problem ethnic group since forever
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/06/asia/china-turkey-warning/index.html

Philippines upset that they just took over a disputed group of islands and built military bases but keep denying it even if the U.S.have evidence that they clearly are - China doesn't even intend to attend the international trials being held(thanks Obama)
http://edition.cnn.com/2015/06/17/asia/china-south-china-sea-land-reclamation/

Government even drove the stock market of China to appear that it's still in the process of growth after the property sector has bubbled with all the fake cities they've built, now its time to rig commodities and the exchanges telling people to buy stock lol
http://www.forbes.com/sites/trangho/2...inas-stock-market-is-not-in-a-bubble/





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 Last edit: 07/07/2015 01:43

devon06atX   Canada. Jul 07 2015 03:19. Posts 5458

While I agree that the place is kinda like the wild west regarding lots of things, I think it's silly to think that there's anything wrong with dog meat festivals. We have steak festivals all the time over here.

Just because we utilize them as domestic pets, doesn't mean other cultures should be forced to. Should we not eat beef because hindus don't? Same with pork and muslims?

You hear about their lake of toxic black sludge? Shit is crazy. I'd put up pics, but I cant on LP anymore for some reason.

https://www.google.ca/search?q=chines...WbVYfZHsnu-AHDpLeoBA&ved=0CCcQsAQ

Mind you, we (as consumers) are to blame for some of the environmental concerns as we continue to buy cellphones and all that other shit that's produced there. I'm amazed there hasn't been a huge public outcry against Apple about their horrible carbon footprint.


NewbSaibot   United States. Jul 07 2015 03:47. Posts 4943

I think it's safe to say that the animals the majority of the world consumes for food are designated as such due to degree of tastiness. Basically dogmeat sucks, or at least I assume it does. Same reason we eat chickens instead of vultures, tuna instead of jellyfish, etc. It's not just some cultural thing.

bye now 

dogmeat   Czech Republic. Jul 07 2015 03:51. Posts 6374


  On July 07 2015 02:47 NewbSaibot wrote:Basically dogmeat sucks, or at least I assume it does.


thx bro

ban baal 

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Jul 07 2015 08:06. Posts 15162

hahaha

93% Sure!  

Loco   Canada. Jul 08 2015 13:06. Posts 20963


  On July 07 2015 02:19 devon06atX wrote:
While I agree that the place is kinda like the wild west regarding lots of things, I think it's silly to think that there's anything wrong with dog meat festivals. We have steak festivals all the time over here.

Just because we utilize them as domestic pets, doesn't mean other cultures should be forced to. Should we not eat beef because hindus don't? Same with pork and muslims?



It's silly to think that we cannot even control our bloodthirsty habits and at least not kill and eat the one species that, because of its invaluable help and our relationship with them, was responsible (essential) for our evolution into Homo Sapiens, and who have been at the center of our lives ever since, proving to be arguably the most trusting and kind animal there is?

We don't 'utilize dogs as pets', they're our friends. Friends are not tools. A hunter, a trapper, a farmer, a soldier or a cop will utilize a dog.

The chinese who eat their dogs (a very small minority, most are against it) often eat their pet dog too, btw. That's the most revolting part about it; the dog trusts and loves a family who will cruelly break that bond for a mere short gustatory gratification.

The kind of moral relativism that you present here is childish and not really believable. I've never met anyone who actually thinks like that as a whole and without exceptions. I'd argue that what you did is defend a wrong by presenting a wrong. Just because it's widely accepted and enjoyed to eat all sorts of animals in the US doesn't make it not wrong (argumentum ad populum). Defining right and wrong by what is culturally acceptable or not obviously doesn't make any sense. Are you also going to defend the non-silliness of still-existing practices like genital mutilation, cannibalism and human sacrifice because some cultures partake in it? I seriously doubt it.

A more sensible way to get at it would be to say something like "something is wrong when it's unnecessarily and cruelly imposed on another being". Now we'd only have to judge whether the killing and eating of other sensitive sentient beings is necessary or not to find out if it is indeed undeniably ethically wrong. And if we want to keep eating meat, we don't have to be idiots or hypocrites about it. We can just hold the position that Sam Harris and many other people hold and say "it's ethically impossible to defend, but I just feel good doing it."

fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccountLast edit: 08/07/2015 13:31

cariadon   Estonia. Jul 08 2015 14:43. Posts 4019

Mohamed El-Erian suggested No ordinary disruption: The four global forces breaking all the trends on bloomberg. Definitely worth picking up. Insightful part about China.

+ Show Spoiler +


 Last edit: 08/07/2015 14:44

spugru   Finland. Jul 08 2015 14:52. Posts 187


  On July 07 2015 02:19 devon06atX wrote:
I think it's silly to think that there's anything wrong with dog meat festivals.


I read they skin, burn and boil the dogs alive. I'm no animal lover, but torturing them is just unnecessary.

play your position small soldier 

Highcard   Canada. Jul 08 2015 15:14. Posts 5428

I look forward to the revolution in food industry that eliminates all animal cruelty and destruction, as well as increased habitat/water conservation.

Research into replacing animal proteins with plant based alternatives is a good example:
http://www.hamptoncreek.com/

They have developed better plant based proteins that bind compounds similar to egg proteins. Everything I have seen, says they have been successful with their product to replace egg from many baking processes with equivalent results that egg proteins offer.

This is a massive revolution in eliminating animal farms, like that of chicken coups. It is document that the world produces 2.3 Trillion eggs a year. Eliminating that production will save resources on crops production that is presently needed to feed over 6 billion chickens. Reduced crop needs for chickens + reduced waste from chicken shit run off/feed will be an exceptional energy/water/habitat savings

I have learned from poker that being at the table is not a grind, the grind is living and poker is how I pass the timeLast edit: 08/07/2015 15:16

Highcard   Canada. Jul 08 2015 15:18. Posts 5428

In the case of Hampton creek, they are using pea proteins and have reduced the cost of protein in food processes by 1/3, making it fiscally responsible for companies to switch from animal proteins to plant based proteins, not just for environmental conversation reasons. Every company will switch to products that save 33% with equivalent results

More advancements from plant based compounds is the future.

I have learned from poker that being at the table is not a grind, the grind is living and poker is how I pass the timeLast edit: 08/07/2015 15:21

Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Jul 08 2015 15:34. Posts 9634


  On July 08 2015 13:52 spugru wrote:
Show nested quote +


I read they skin, burn and boil the dogs alive. I'm no animal lover, but torturing them is just unnecessary.

this.

It pushes the cultural difference further


devon06atX   Canada. Jul 08 2015 15:52. Posts 5458

@Loco's post. Comparing the barbaric practice of senseless genital mutilation on humans based on fucked up backwards beliefs to the eating of a "sensitive, sentient being" (dog) as an argument to my opinion is hilarious. I understand what you were trying to do, but that was just reaching.

And dogs aren't inherently loyal or kind to the human race. They're made that way by our feeding/attention/etc. Their reliance on us breeds their loyalty. Wild packs of dogs are bad news bears man.

I should state right now, before anyone gets any ideas, that I love dogs like crazy. I could never eat a dog because of how I, and my culture, values their relationship to people.

Clearly, Chinese people don't value them the same as us.

All I'm saying is that it's pretty elitist of us to think that what they're doing is any more wrong than us having pig and cow farms (I suppose you could make more of an argument about pigs, as they're way more intelligent... but that opens up a wholeeeeee other big ass debate that this has nothing to do with). In fact, perhaps what we're doing is more 'evil'. Do they have dog farms? I honestly don't know.

You say they eat their pet dogs. That's pretty fucked up, I agree. However, haven't you never heard of farms where the kids have 'pet pigs' and they eat them when their time comes? To think that practice doesn't exist in the 'morally superior west' is ignorant.

And yes, this clearly comes down to our culture placing our own beliefs on a superior level than theirs. That's all there is to it. And possibly a lack of beef/pig in China, who knows. I feel like I'm repeating myself here hah, I'll stop.

edit - I apologize if anything I said sounds even remotely offending or insulting. I respect your views on many things, but shit happens in haphazard posts hah.

@spugru - I'm sure you know as well as anyone the amount of bullshit media that's out there. I honestly have no idea how they prepare them.. I would have assumed they kill them first before doing anything else. I don't see how keeping a dog alive while skinning them could possibly enhance the taste of the meat - but it sure would make the preparation a pain in the ass. Actually, wtf? That's some robocop dog right there if they can survive being skinned and burned before being boiled. But again, I don't know. I'm sure if I really wanted I could dig up both the more 'humane' way of preparing a dog, and the more 'inhumane' way. Just as I could regarding the slaughtering of cows and pigs in the western world.

 Last edit: 08/07/2015 16:03

Liquid`Drone   Norway. Jul 08 2015 17:48. Posts 3093


  On July 08 2015 13:52 spugru wrote:
Show nested quote +


I read they skin, burn and boil the dogs alive. I'm no animal lover, but torturing them is just unnecessary.


yeah this is my big issue too. I have dogs and absolutely looove dogs and can't imagine ever eating one - but I don't really see how eating dog meat period is worse than eating most other animals. It's just that 1: the dog meat festival features a lot of dog torture (and to dog lovers, watching this is as revolting, if not more, than people-torture. ) 2: eating dog meat means that either you bred a dog for eating (pretty much bound to be torture by default - even more so than most animals bred for eating) or that you ate your pet or that you stole/bought someone's pet to eat.

Fact is though, if you went back a couple decades, it'd be fairly common in Norway for people to have rabbits as pets and food at the same time. not sure how different that is.

But either way; people in general are not that outraged by the chinese eating dog meat, period. But when pictures and videos come from a dog eating festival where dogs are skinned, burned and boiled alive, it invokes a completely different set of emotions, not necessarily that different from how people felt about the movies of IS burning people alive etc..

lol POKER 

devon06atX   Canada. Jul 08 2015 17:54. Posts 5458

Had no idea the dog meat festivals involved torture...

Again, I just assumed they would prepare them the 'humane' way. If they really do involve deriving enjoyment from the pain of the animal, then yeah, fuck them.


ggplz   Sweden. Jul 09 2015 12:06. Posts 16784

People saying they wouldn't eat dog meat are detached from their meat eating reality. I would eat any type of animal that's nutritious and hasn't been abused. You're free to pick and choose which animals you would eat ethically or simply prefer. I wouldn't kill and eat my own pet dog except in some extremely dire circumstances i.e. starvation and would obviously prefer an honourable burial for my pet rather than consuming it if it was to die on its own. Even then, I may not eat it in seemingly hopeless situations where my pet could live on after my death and depending on our bond. Given the way dogs are abused in China, I wouldn't eat dog meat over there.

“Can you ethically defend eating meat?“

Yes, it provides calories and is nutritious. We need the rich and essential fat soluble vitamins, fatty acids, minerals and protein to thrive. The source matters too as you have more of an ethical freedom to eat well raised animals than you do those raised in suffering and misery as they're raised better and more nutritious with healthier fats. If you say we can survive without it therefore potentially at the cost of your health you choose not to eat it I say that's an unrealistic, immature and illogical position to even come from. It's in-line with people who think we can continue to overpopulate the earth and start to feed ourselves artificial meat. It's fundamentally a nutritional requirement and not an ethical question, although there are ethics to what you choose to eat. As mentioned, it's also delicious and very satisfying to eat, undeniably. We kill and consume it as other animals would kill to survive. That said, eating factory farmed meat isn't very defensible ethically barring e.g. starvation.

"It's unethical to delegate something that you wouldn't do for ethical reasons"

True and every meat eater needs to ask themselves if they could kill animals to eat them. I don't mean in the alarming delegated sense often depicted by vegans I.e. standing in a factory line slaughtering animal after animal – that's not you. You require e.g. 1 steak and some liver, not 20 cows. I mean killing just the one you need and then feeding both you and your family with the meat and organs. If you're willing to do that then there is no issue with delegating it. With our modern lifestyles it's unrealistic to expect everyone to have their own animals and mini farm. I think a lot of people are hypocrites here though and will lie to themselves, which is absolutely cancerous to our food production and general outlook as a society. Put yourself on a farm where you have to fend for yourself, without the cushion of modern food distribution and you'll quickly accept the slaughtering of animals.

In my opinion, we need to stop populating the earth further, reduce the size of our global population, maintain and improve environmental standards by reducing our burden on the earth and support farmers that are doing it right.

Also, this always blows my mind: http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/

if poker is dangerous to them i would rank sports betting as a Kodiak grizzly bear who smells blood after you just threw a javelin into his cub - RaiNKhANLast edit: 09/07/2015 12:11

Baalim   Mexico. Jul 09 2015 12:15. Posts 34246

Agreed with drone the whole "they are our friends"thing sounds more of a rationalization of a feeling than an actually objective an intelligent argument.

As far as I know pigs are smarter than dogs so its probably more cruel to eat them, but they arent as furry and pretty as dog so fuck them get in my belly!... I think its hypocritical to be against dog meat consumption and not Pigs, obviously the torture part is fucked up and should stop.

BTW I didnt know Sam Harris position on eating animals and I agree with them, its certainly a morally superior position to not eat animals, but I just cant give it up easily at all. I also think that the vast majority of people who claim to be vegetarians because of moral reasons never had a strong affinity with meat.

Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online 

Liquid`Drone   Norway. Jul 09 2015 17:55. Posts 3093

I know quite some veggies, mostly all of them I've talked with about it said that while it's definitely a choice they made for moral reasons, they thought it was easy because they weren't that fond of meat so it wasn't that big of a sacrifice for them. I also know some who said that while they used to like meat a lot before they turned vegetarian, now that they've been veggies for a couple years, it no longer appeals to them.

I think there's only one veggie I know who said that he thinks it's difficult sometimes because he really loves and sometimes craves steak and burgers.

So yeah baal, I agree that for most veggies it's just not that hard because they didn't love meat that much, but my experience is that they are totally upfront about this. I think I've only met one girl ever who had this whole, moral superiority complex about it, and she wasn't even a full vegetarian, would eat meat on a monthly or so basis.

lol POKER 

GoTuNk   Chile. Jul 09 2015 18:22. Posts 2860

From an athlete's perspective, I don't see how I could possibly consume the calories and nutrients from 0.5/1kg of meat I daily consume in any other way without severely affecting my performance. Even filling my energy requirements would be fucking hard.


brambolius   Netherlands. Jul 09 2015 23:14. Posts 1708


  On July 09 2015 11:15 Baalim wrote:
Agreed with drone the whole "they are our friends"thing sounds more of a rationalization of a feeling than an actually objective an intelligent argument.



Bullshit, the dog evolved/got bred alongside man as a companion/tool , not food.

Heat......EXTEND 

YoMeR   United States. Jul 09 2015 23:34. Posts 12435

lol dogs are delicious if prepared properly.

you guys are missing out.

the argument that "dogs are our friend but other mammals the west eats aren't" is complete hypocrisy

eZ Life.Last edit: 09/07/2015 23:34

 
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