Long story short, the costs of moving anything to Earth's orbit (especially big things ) are absolutely ridiculous, because of the fact that you lose the rocket each time.
SpaceX, a private company owned by Elon Musk (the genius behind Tesla Motors and other stuff, check his Wikiepedia article: Elon Musk on Wikipedia) is currently trying to bring the main part of rocket back to earth without destroying it.
The first tests were a fiasco, but the progress is just incredible. The latest landing was yesterday and today they released a full video of how it went - the rocket is trying to land back on the special platform on the ocean (safety measures), it was still a fail, but they are getting closer:
If they get to it, it means the costs of moving things to space would drop by 100x.
Anyone else following this? I've been watching all the starts/landings live, this is incredible how much a single guy can move whole world forward.
Another test flight they did previous, but different rocket:
Why they cant and wont use parachutes, kinda interesting as well:
If you use parachutes, you do not get the kind of precision you need to land on a pad from a ballistic trajectory. You end up having to fire the engine longer, since you have to correct more. It also adds mass, which again, cuts into fuel and payload fraction. Parachutes also add several extra points of failure, and need to be re-rated after every use, and if gusts of wind are caught by the chute, it pulls the rocket off course, or might even cause a crash. In the end, the risk and extra fuel overhead you need does not justify using a parachute, which would have to be ginormous to brake the 30ish ton stage.
It only travels at terminal velocity, around 400kph I think, when the engines are re-ignited. It doesn't take a lot for a rocket to slow down from that and fly to the pad.
The flight profile will most probably also have it fall towards the shore, not the pad, so that it crashes into the sea or the beach instead of the landing site if the engine doesn't re-ignite.
Parachutes also put tension on the stage, which aren't built for that. It would take significantly more RnD to add parachutes and make sure the structure is up to the task of being pulled repeatedly. It's cheaper and simpler to just use the engines which are already on board. Fuel is only around 30000$ for a Falcon 9, so let's say 50k for a Falcon Heavy. The rocket itself likely costs around 90 million.
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Santafairy Korea (South). Apr 16 2015 01:23. Posts 2226
damn, that was unlucky as shit, so i guess there would really have been no point to try it during the stormy conditions in some of the other launches
comes in pretty hot too
It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen
On April 16 2015 00:23 Santafairy wrote:
damn, that was unlucky as shit, so i guess there would really have been no point to try it during the stormy conditions in some of the other launches
comes in pretty hot too
Afaik the biggest problem so far is that the engined can operate with ~60-100% only, as if it gets below that value fuel pressure would destroy the engine. However, even with those 60% (which is the minimum amount of power available, like mentioned) the rocket still generates too much power for an empty rocket to slowly descend (it would fly up), that's why it has to rapidly slow down right before the landing.
The ground launch and landing were done with a much heavier rocket, tanked to full, that's why it could slowly fall down.
Fascinating stuff. I heard about his initial plans and the attempt failing but I never saw the footage. I really like what he's doing and I hope he succeeds
if poker is dangerous to them i would rank sports betting as a Kodiak grizzly bear who smells blood after you just threw a javelin into his cub - RaiNKhAN
I wonder if all the billionaires, who essentially basically just beat life were to commit to bettering the world in just one aspect per person, how much progress we would make.
I mean, I'm not sure if they already do that, but I'm assuming they don't, since I only really hear about Musk and Gates. Gates is pretty amazing.
On April 16 2015 17:34 Arirang wrote:
I wonder if all the billionaires, who essentially basically just beat life were to commit to bettering the world in just one aspect per person, how much progress we would make.
I mean, I'm not sure if they already do that, but I'm assuming they don't, since I only really hear about Musk and Gates. Gates is pretty amazing.
you can start by thinking how did they become billionaires in the first place
And what does self awareness have to do with anything you retard? srsly stfu. - baal
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traxamillion United States. Apr 16 2015 20:05. Posts 10468
On April 16 2015 17:34 Arirang wrote:
I wonder if all the billionaires, who essentially basically just beat life were to commit to bettering the world in just one aspect per person, how much progress we would make.
I mean, I'm not sure if they already do that, but I'm assuming they don't, since I only really hear about Musk and Gates. Gates is pretty amazing.
you can start by thinking how did they become billionaires in the first place
Yea exactly. Seems to me the new money billionaires are more philanthropic but what do I know about that exactly.
On April 16 2015 17:34 Arirang wrote:
I wonder if all the billionaires, who essentially basically just beat life were to commit to bettering the world in just one aspect per person, how much progress we would make.
I mean, I'm not sure if they already do that, but I'm assuming they don't, since I only really hear about Musk and Gates. Gates is pretty amazing.
you can start by thinking how did they become billionaires in the first place
Yea exactly. Seems to me the new money billionaires are more philanthropic but what do I know about that exactly.
Why would it be more safe to land it on ocean ? We have a lot of desert zone unused. This ocean safety's thing is another pathetic excuse to hide all the part they don't want us to discover imo.
Still a great step in the right direction considering the amount of shit we throw up in space.
Shin-il : Yeah it was very very very good for me too. Rekrul : YOU MOTHER FUCKING FUCKING SON OF A BITCH
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Santafairy Korea (South). Apr 21 2015 23:11. Posts 2226
On April 21 2015 21:20 RaiZ wrote:
Why would it be more safe to land it on ocean ? We have a lot of desert zone unused. This ocean safety's thing is another pathetic excuse to hide all the part they don't want us to discover imo.
Still a great step in the right direction considering the amount of shit we throw up in space.
Rockets have been launched over the ocean since people started launching rockets. it's because when you launch a rocket, it always lands anyway in the form of falling from the sky at hundreds of miles per hour and it's safer to do that over the ocean because human beings aren't fish so rockets launched over the ocean don't crash into our civilization
It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen
TimDawg United States. Dec 22 2015 05:55. Posts 10197
Elon Musk will be written about in our childrens' history books
this is amazing
online bob is actually a pretty smart person, not at all like the creepy fucker that sits in the sofa telling me he does nasty shit to me when im asleep - pinball
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traxamillion United States. Dec 22 2015 06:10. Posts 10468
if poker is dangerous to them i would rank sports betting as a Kodiak grizzly bear who smells blood after you just threw a javelin into his cub - RaiNKhAN
Into Infinity United States. Dec 22 2015 17:28. Posts 1884
i have a friend that works at spacex... mirin
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bigredhoss Cook Islands. Dec 22 2015 23:12. Posts 8648
Elon Musk's biggest talent by far is in the PR marketing of his personality cult to people who are like 'hurr durr maek space ships', he's definitely no Gates / Brin / Page / Zuckerberg / Jobs (maybe he's ahead of Jobs intellectually, but he's behind everyone else both in terms of intellect and accomplishments). i mean the guy is a beast but his mega fanboy following isn't really warranted.
On December 22 2015 22:12 bigredhoss wrote:
Elon Musk's biggest talent by far is in the PR marketing of his personality cult to people who are like 'hurr durr maek space ship.
the people you've listed afterwards are exactly the same :/ they re all great at selling themselves and great at leading large intelligent groups of people, otherwise none of them would've been able to accomplish what they've accomplished
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Santafairy Korea (South). Dec 23 2015 00:14. Posts 2226
I don't think Elon Musk's personality cult is of any value by itself, it's just an indication that people are excited by space and electric cars. it's not worth anything, I mean it might make people aware of the electric car revolution, but it's not selling rockets
and what exactly are any of those people's accomplishments? Jobs made a rounded square, Zuckerberg invented friends, Gates copied Jobs, Page is probably the closest personally to Musk out of those, and Google is actually an incredible... thing, monster, whatever kind of entity it is
Making efficient rockets, that are already cheaper than the competition, that go to space and also come back and land is a serious achievement, same with being able to drive all over the US on electricity
It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen
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dogmeat Czech Republic. Dec 23 2015 01:44. Posts 6374
hehe came here to trash on jobs, zuckerberg and bigredhoss, but the job has already been done
ban baal
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Silver_nz New Zealand. Dec 23 2015 11:21. Posts 5647
So... you'd prefer that we keep the ranks of famous people as they are. Keep worshiping... actors. "Honey boo-boo" and Miley Cyrus and "big Soccer star #135" and Raging Feminist #10034 and Gang-Bangin Rapper #928.
Yes, having more famous Scientist/Engineers - people who can actually think critically and are good role models - is truly a terrible thing.
Last edit: 23/12/2015 11:27
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MadeInPolanD Poland. Dec 23 2015 11:52. Posts 1383
On April 16 2015 17:34 Arirang wrote:
I wonder if all the billionaires, who essentially basically just beat life were to commit to bettering the world in just one aspect per person, how much progress we would make.
I mean, I'm not sure if they already do that, but I'm assuming they don't, since I only really hear about Musk and Gates. Gates is pretty amazing.
I'd say the answer is education: making small children work together in school instead of working for their grades/their individual success. That way the success becomes shared and it will be always remembered (or subconciously remembered) as something 'nice from childhood' and can drive ppl through their entire lifes. Obv it's a 'numbers game', not everyone reacts the same way to the same environment.
I know, I want to manipulate ppl.
Make it rain$$$
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bigredhoss Cook Islands. Dec 23 2015 12:00. Posts 8648
On December 22 2015 22:12 bigredhoss wrote:
Elon Musk's biggest talent by far is in the PR marketing of his personality cult to people who are like 'hurr durr maek space ship.
the people you've listed afterwards are exactly the same :/ they re all great at selling themselves and great at leading large intelligent groups of people, otherwise none of them would've been able to accomplish what they've accomplished
On December 22 2015 23:14 Santafairy wrote:
I don't think Elon Musk's personality cult is of any value by itself, it's just an indication that people are excited by space and electric cars. it's not worth anything, I mean it might make people aware of the electric car revolution, but it's not selling rockets
and what exactly are any of those people's accomplishments? Jobs made a rounded square, Zuckerberg invented friends, Gates copied Jobs, Page is probably the closest personally to Musk out of those, and Google is actually an incredible... thing, monster, whatever kind of entity it is
Making efficient rockets, that are already cheaper than the competition, that go to space and also come back and land is a serious achievement, same with being able to drive all over the US on electricity
i'm not saying Gates et al aren't also gifted and opportunistic marketers. i'm saying that unlike them, it's the only thing Musk has proven to be exceptional at. Musk has more in common with Trump than he does with Gates.
both SpaceX and Tesla benefit from cutting safety corners which are a ticking timebomb. in the autonomous vehicle game Tesla is significantly behind Google, Nissan, BMW and probably others, but half the world believes they're at the forefront thanks to Musks's brilliant PR work.
look at what Jeff Bezos did with Blue Origin last month (without the help of government funding no less), how much hype did that get? yet Bezos, another entrepreneur who's clearly more accomplished and more intelligent than Musk, doesn't get the mythological hero-worship treatment that Musk gets.
Musk also makes all kinds of ridiculous statements (to be fair he probably realizes they're ridiculous and is just putting them out there for those who will lick them up) about things like colonizing Mars, which has nothing to do with companies like SpaceX and everything to do with the advancement of materials sciences and the development of new energy sources like fusion.
scroll down a few paragraphs in this article. there's a hedge fund manager's letter to its shareholders that outlines a lot of the market's delusions about Tesla, including the safety issues i mentioned earlier, negative cash flow, lack of supposed proprietary technologies, a pattern of grandiose hype and deceptive claims, etc. there's a bunch of links but they're worth reading if you're interested in this stuff and explain it far better than i could.
On December 23 2015 00:44 dogmeat wrote:
hehe came here to trash on jobs, zuckerberg and bigredhoss, but the job has already been done
it's true - Zuckerberg, Jobs and Myself are no Gates.
On December 23 2015 10:21 Silver_nz wrote:
So... you'd prefer that we keep the ranks of famous people as they are. Keep worshiping... actors. "Honey boo-boo" and Miley Cyrus and "big Soccer star #135" and Raging Feminist #10034 and Gang-Bangin Rapper #928.
Yes, having more famous Scientist/Engineers - people who can actually think critically and are good role models - is truly a terrible thing.
just to state the obvious, i'm comparing him to other famous entrepreneurs who are held on pedestals as innovators; not, you know, Honey boo boo, or your cousin Sal or whoever. i'm not saying he's a clown or something, i'm just saying that he carries a cult following that is out of proportion to his accomplishments.
i'm all for more famous Scientists and Engineers. Musk isn't a great Scientist or Engineer, he's a businessperson who happens to have a Physics degree and likes to dip his toes into his companies' engineering processes. the majority of the people working for him are undoubtedly better scientists/engineers than he is.
Truck-Crash Life
Last edit: 23/12/2015 12:06
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Santafairy Korea (South). Dec 24 2015 19:50. Posts 2226
On December 22 2015 22:12 bigredhoss wrote:
Elon Musk's biggest talent by far is in the PR marketing of his personality cult to people who are like 'hurr durr maek space ship.
the people you've listed afterwards are exactly the same :/ they re all great at selling themselves and great at leading large intelligent groups of people, otherwise none of them would've been able to accomplish what they've accomplished
On December 22 2015 23:14 Santafairy wrote:
I don't think Elon Musk's personality cult is of any value by itself, it's just an indication that people are excited by space and electric cars. it's not worth anything, I mean it might make people aware of the electric car revolution, but it's not selling rockets
and what exactly are any of those people's accomplishments? Jobs made a rounded square, Zuckerberg invented friends, Gates copied Jobs, Page is probably the closest personally to Musk out of those, and Google is actually an incredible... thing, monster, whatever kind of entity it is
Making efficient rockets, that are already cheaper than the competition, that go to space and also come back and land is a serious achievement, same with being able to drive all over the US on electricity
i'm not saying Gates et al aren't also gifted and opportunistic marketers. i'm saying that unlike them, it's the only thing Musk has proven to be exceptional at. Musk has more in common with Trump than he does with Gates.
I know. I'm saying you're wrong.
On December 23 2015 11:00 bigredhoss wrote:
both SpaceX and Tesla benefit from cutting safety corners which are a ticking timebomb. in the autonomous vehicle game Tesla is significantly behind Google, Nissan, BMW and probably others, but half the world believes they're at the forefront thanks to Musks's brilliant PR work.
Tell me more about cutting corners in a car that nobody has ever died in...
I don't really follow autonomous driving, because I don't care, so I'm not sure most people care either, but what's your point? If other companies are doing better at it, good for them.
On December 23 2015 11:00 bigredhoss wrote:
look at what Jeff Bezos did with Blue Origin last month (without the help of government funding no less), how much hype did that get? yet Bezos, another entrepreneur who's clearly more accomplished and more intelligent than Musk, doesn't get the mythological hero-worship treatment that Musk gets.
I'm sorry but Blue Origin and Virgin Galactic have achieved fuck all. They make toys that go up 100km to give people 4 minutes of weightlessness. In Virgin Galactic's case, it's a spaceplane. In Blue Origin's case, it's an itty bitty rocket with a capsule on it. They're just really fast roller-coasters. I mean it's great that their system works, but it's not comparable to landing the first stage of an orbital launch vehicle back at the launchpad.
I don't know why it's so clear to you that Jeff Bezos is more accomplished than Musk (or more intelligent - are you friends with these guys?).
Bezos: Amazon, Blue Origin
Musk: Paypal, Tesla, SpaceX
You keep talking about Steve Jobs and Bill Gates, like your metric for "accomplishment" is market cap of publicly traded companies. I want to make it clear I'm not here arguing Elon Musk is some kind of demigod. I'm just saying your trashing on him is unfounded.
US government agencies, mainly NASA, are some of the customers of SpaceX. Customers, as in NASA gives them money, and the company gives them stuff in return (in this case, rockets). Just like every other aerospace company. What you're saying is like criticizing Lockheed Martin for taking "government funding" and omitting the part where they actually manufacture warplanes. It's a business, with a buyer and seller.
On December 23 2015 11:00 bigredhoss wrote:
Musk also makes all kinds of ridiculous statements (to be fair he probably realizes they're ridiculous and is just putting them out there for those who will lick them up) about things like colonizing Mars, which has nothing to do with companies like SpaceX and everything to do with the advancement of materials sciences and the development of new energy sources like fusion.
-Musk sets optimistic deadlines, big deal
-Nuclear fusion has nothing to do with Mars. Nuclear fusion is a goal for sustainable energy because it's clean, produces tons of energy, and doesn't have fission's risk of criticality. Humans don't need nuclear fusion to colonize Mars any more than they needed it to colonize Earth.
-Colonizing Mars is absolutely and fundamentally related to being able to go to Mars cheaply. There aren't huge research obstacles to living on the planet.
On December 23 2015 11:00 bigredhoss wrote:
scroll down a few paragraphs in this article. there's a hedge fund manager's letter to its shareholders that outlines a lot of the market's delusions about Tesla, including the safety issues i mentioned earlier, negative cash flow, lack of supposed proprietary technologies, a pattern of grandiose hype and deceptive claims, etc. there's a bunch of links but they're worth reading if you're interested in this stuff and explain it far better than i could.
-Tesla doesn't have safety issues, they're basically the safest cars on the road, the only thing you mentioned earlier was "muh autonomous driving"
-Aggressive expansion, like building five-billion dollar factories, results in negative cash flow, yes
-I don't know why I'm supposed to care if people are misinformed as to whether one technology or another is proprietary or not. Why don't you just tell me where were - and where are - all the other 300 mile range electric cars with 25 minute fast charging?
On December 23 2015 00:44 dogmeat wrote:
hehe came here to trash on jobs, zuckerberg and bigredhoss, but the job has already been done
it's true - Zuckerberg, Jobs and Myself are no Gates.
On December 23 2015 10:21 Silver_nz wrote:
So... you'd prefer that we keep the ranks of famous people as they are. Keep worshiping... actors. "Honey boo-boo" and Miley Cyrus and "big Soccer star #135" and Raging Feminist #10034 and Gang-Bangin Rapper #928.
Yes, having more famous Scientist/Engineers - people who can actually think critically and are good role models - is truly a terrible thing.
just to state the obvious, i'm comparing him to other famous entrepreneurs who are held on pedestals as innovators; not, you know, Honey boo boo, or your cousin Sal or whoever. i'm not saying he's a clown or something, i'm just saying that he carries a cult following that is out of proportion to his accomplishments.
i'm all for more famous Scientists and Engineers. Musk isn't a great Scientist or Engineer, he's a businessperson who happens to have a Physics degree and likes to dip his toes into his companies' engineering processes. the majority of the people working for him are undoubtedly better scientists/engineers than he is.
This is just spun bullshit. You think Musk is a mere "businessperson" because he has billion dollar companies of thousands of people to do shit for him. And yes, some of those people are undoubtedly better engineers than him at one thing or another. Just like the people who worked for Jobs, Gates, Page. But when was the last time any of those 3 sat debugging lines of code from their huge projects, do you think? You know, those 3 people you keep insisting are miles ahead of Musk intellectually?
It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen
who gives a shit if Musk isnt as good as Gates or if he self markets a lot and is overrated, he is still cool as fuck and a brilliant visionary, this world needs more people like him
exactly, you need visionaries like him, colonizing another planet seems like the natural progress our race would have in the near future, but accomplishing that is tied to tons of other things
you diminish his achievements just cause he s only the " PR " guy, however being able to sell something like that and getting the funding because of it is the reason the idea would have the chance to come to reality
On December 26 2015 10:44 Baalim wrote:
who gives a shit if Musk isnt as good as Gates or if he self markets a lot and is overrated, he is still cool as fuck and a brilliant visionary, this world needs more people like him
Musk is cool in my book. Paypal sucks though, but we don't have anything else better, just like with Spacex and Tesla lol
Last edit: 28/12/2015 01:46
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dogmeat Czech Republic. Dec 28 2015 02:45. Posts 6374
Santafairy for poster of a year award!
ban baal
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casinocasino Canada. Dec 29 2015 05:10. Posts 3343
I find it fascinating that one of his companies focuses on electric automobiles and the other on combustion of rocket fuel. Perhaps the only thing left for him to figure out is how to size that gap.
United States. Dec 22 2015 05:55. Posts 10197
