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traxamillion   United States. Apr 09 2015 07:16. Posts 10303

$340-350 effective or 70bb.

A few ep players limp 5 i overlimp the 5 with AcJc (sure i could raise i know) bb makes it 20 to go one ep player calls and I call.

Flop comes Js7d2h.BB bets 40 into the pot of about 70. Ep player folds. I call.

Turn is the 3c and the BB bets 70 into 150 leaving 200-220 behind. I?

Young kid i've played with him a little before here and at 1-1-2. Not especially good or anything but knows how to play and less nitty than most of the rest of the table. Only significant hand he raised the bb after a bunch of limps with A5ss and checked twice with the flopped nut flush and then after flop and turn checked through he led the river 30 for value. I saw him make some dumb 3barrel earlier betting basically the same size on turn, river and maybe even flop and he mucked ace high to someone's top pair. I have seen him use this exact same betsizing at least twice before but once he went 35-70 and the other was 40-70. In neither hand did he show down.

Online I'd just call/call as standard most likely with the possibility of a ninja fold somewhere. Live this is a snapfold vs some people nut others have all kinds of bluffs and worse jacks even lower pairs so iono. What would you do here.

for those that call the turn. the river is the 8c and he A)jams ai for 200-220 B)Checks

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 Last edit: 09/04/2015 07:19

YoMeR   United States. Apr 09 2015 20:07. Posts 12360

limping behind a bunch of dead money in the pot with a hand as strong as AJs is criminal. It's not even close. raise it up.

as played lol he has 350. let's see what he has. fairly close between call/fold imo. But I don't really know what to do ina spot like this cuz i never get into a spot like this ;o

eZ Life. 

traxamillion   United States. Apr 09 2015 20:41. Posts 10303

Yea I know pre is a raise and 95% of the time I do but I had a few weird/bad reasons not to here. I had taken down the last 3 pots with either 3bet/4bet without showdown and the table was clearly pissed, especially this Asian to my direct left. I was going for a pretty loose back raise expecting the guy to my left to raise 30% or more of his hands there but when it was the BB who raised I changed my mind and just called. I overlimp a decent bit In FR live cash depending on the table and especially cause this game does not play too deep with half the table under 100bb so lower pairs, some suited aces, some decent suited hands like 910s. This isn't necessarily the most profitable approach I might make a bit more raising everything given my edge post flop but this reduces variance since I don't have the luxury of a large forgiving bankroll. I'm only talking about over limping not open limping


traxamillion   United States. Apr 09 2015 20:47. Posts 10303

The UTG+1 and UTG limps aren't exactly dead money. While I'm not particularly worried about them. At least UTG knows to limp some nut hands occasionally to mix it up there and neither of them are folding to one raise. If I make it 25-30 they both call and both have AQ in their ranges lol so it's not like some limpers where I'd consider it completely dead $. Another reason I kinda wanted to slip in the back raise; get them out and go heads up with a tilted azn in the sb


traxamillion   United States. Apr 09 2015 20:49. Posts 10303


  On April 09 2015 19:07 YoMeR wrote:
limping behind a bunch of dead money in the pot with a hand as strong as AJs is criminal. It's not even close. raise it up.

as played lol he has 350. let's see what he has. fairly close between call/fold imo. But I don't really know what to do ina spot like this cuz i never get into a spot like this ;o



Close between call/fold on the river you mean? What if you call turn and he checks river to you


traxamillion   United States. Apr 09 2015 20:51. Posts 10303

And my last question, if I did not have AJ and just had air and jammed turn on this guys $70 bet what is the best hand you would expect him to fold? It would be like 220 more back to him to call

 Last edit: 09/04/2015 21:42

YoMeR   United States. Apr 10 2015 00:46. Posts 12360

I actually over limp on the button/co quite a bit with hands like AXs/Kxs and even down to Jxs if there's enough baddies inthe pot limping away. It can be pretty good/exploitive since we are constantly playing pots in position vs weaker players who suckass at postflop play.

But with stronghands like AJs it isn't "reducing variance" when we can jack itup to 5-6x bb and just win right there a huge % and even if they call we will win the pot with a cbet onthe flop as well. If anything the huge gains in redline will make variance smaller in the long run. And using that "lowering variance" excuse for a bad play is well just bad. Maybe move down in stakes if you can't afford the swings of the stakes your playing.

once we get to the river after said action we are putting the money in with a hand as strong as AJ on this board. we aren't even 100bb effective.

eZ Life. 

traxamillion   United States. Apr 10 2015 01:39. Posts 10303

Can't really move down in live poker lol. And I didn't limp AJ cause I was scared lol I was about to make a move pre and bailed. Also limping AJ of course would lower variance it just might lower winrate too. And if your argument is that by not raising I lose a ton of value because the times I do raise I am likely to just take down the pot then you are wrong. I literally know UTG and he does not limp fold to one raise lol; maybe if I smash it to like 8-10bb but wtf? I could get with you if you are saying I lose value simply because my hand is stronger than their range and I want to raise for value and have them call with worse. There might have been up to 4 limps before me at least 3 including UTG and I fully agree raise is +ev and probably better than whatever I was trying to do but I wasn't taking it down with 3x +1 per limper. I also expressly wrote in the OP that I know pre is a raise and I don't care about that and want to have a useful discussion about the turn on.




Just cause I think it's funny. My boy Paul is 20bb shortstack exploiting the same game my hand took place in as I type this. UTG limps 5, 2 call, Paul makes it 35, UTG jams AK and mini-stacks him.

Just wrong to assume anyone limping is a 2006 donk limp/folding 50%+. Who does that anymore? Even among fish?


traxamillion   United States. Apr 10 2015 01:49. Posts 10303

As a standard I do raise pre here obv in case that wasn't clear. I also never excuse bad plays with saying I tried to lower variance. That's retarded. I said I have a general gameplan of over limping certain hands rather than raise them even though they may be slightly ahead of the limper's ranges because of the expectation that I am bloating the pot without anyone else folding enough and I won't be able to realize my equity in a lot of situations because of multiway pots and ensuing action. I.e. Over limping 44 after UTG and utg +1 limp from the hijack. Pretty standard actually. I was talking about a general strategy. I didn't say I limped AJ to lower variance, I was about to back raise the sb.


casinocasino   Canada. Apr 10 2015 20:42. Posts 3282

Seems to me like a thought process error..not like back raising AJ is a hugely +EV play. Opposed to isoing and protecting your in position ranges which is imo.


traxamillion   United States. Apr 10 2015 21:23. Posts 10303

yea i agreed and said in op that it was bad and irregular and part of the reason for posting but my questions really relate to the turn on


traxamillion   United States. Apr 11 2015 06:48. Posts 10303

Just have to post another example of a hand from this game tonight. I covered and got it ai vs 2 75 bb stacks.

UTG limps, I overlimp AKo, next to act makes a raise 40, 5 people call, when the action is back to me I just jam all in. 2 people call lol. First with QJ the second with J8o and I river an ace to ship the 250bb pot


traxamillion   United States. Apr 11 2015 06:52. Posts 10303

So limping and backraising and some non standard plays have some value in these odd 9 handed live games. Not like this shit really happens online


JohnnyBologna   United States. Apr 17 2015 21:26. Posts 1393

go with it. he could have JK or even JQ

By doing a little bit at a time, a lot can be done 

traxamillion   United States. Apr 18 2015 01:41. Posts 10303


  On April 17 2015 20:26 JohnnyBologna wrote:
go with it. he could have JK or even JQ



Thanks, what he does with JK, QJ is kind of the crux here. I did call/call. Post results in a few days see if anyone else wants to post anything. Got 2 funny 1-1-2 hands I'll post in low stakes too when I have time.

 Last edit: 18/04/2015 01:42

traxamillion   United States. Apr 18 2015 23:22. Posts 10303

I got owned by KK


FullBRing   Philippines. Apr 23 2015 20:45. Posts 566

I think you should really reconsider the fact that you are playing scared money, 70bb plus over limp make this pretty obvious imo.


traxamillion   United States. Apr 24 2015 19:22. Posts 10303


  On April 23 2015 19:45 FullBRing wrote:
I think you should really reconsider the fact that you are playing scared money, 70bb plus over limp make this pretty obvious imo.



Lol thanks for the stellar advice bud


traxamillion   United States. Apr 24 2015 19:42. Posts 10303

I've been playing this game ten years and at this point I'm not even capable of playing scared money. I might be nitty when it comes to bankroll management, shots, and moving up, but once the money is on the table it's gone it isn't even money anymore just BBs. I've lost half my roll ripping off a bluff in a game 20x what I usually play. If you don't play much live poker I don't even expect you to understand my live posts because the hands just seems so bizarre. But 9 handed live games with 8 fish play much differently than tough online games. Exploitative strategies are best and sometimes those lines are completely different than what would normally be optimal in that spot.

The 1-1-2 kill game I grind is so soft that over hundreds of hours of play in the last year I've never even had a downswing of more than 300-350 big blinds. I've adapted a low variance value oriented game that rapes I don't need to 3bet light regularly to get action etc.

I limped AJ here which I've done in this spot probably this one time in my life for a specific reason. I made this post because I felt obligated strategically to call while feeling I was beat and wondering I he even shoves worse or if this is just the standard overpair/nada spot we all run into regularly.


hiems   United States. Apr 24 2015 21:09. Posts 1352


  On April 24 2015 18:42 traxamillion wrote:
I've lost half my roll ripping off a bluff in a game 20x what I usually play.



more of this story please. 20x so it must have been at least 10/20 right? and if theres a reason to take a shot like that there's a huge drooler which means you just wait for it for the most part...but then you bluff it off? what on earth? I feel like I am missing something.


 
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