national defence, laws and credible enforcement of human rights, property rights, social welfare, education, provision of public goods, regulation of pollution...
...yeah we're better off without any of that shit (lol)
On December 30 2014 17:27 chris wrote:
Baal, if the government in the US didn't build roads, only the wealthy would have roads because the poor could not afford them and middle class areas could not afford to maintain them, as the costs are enormous - and then there is the matter of contribution. i suppose you know all about social goods and public goods.
God this is so retarded, what roads are you talking about? I said that if you wanted to know more about specifics on how roads could be handled by private investors then Id link you to articles about it, are you interested ?
[quote
The FDA kills people? This statement...I do not know if you are trolling or truly believe that....[/quote]
Yes the FDA causes far more deaths than it saves, it has caused hundreds of thousands of death for blocking heart disease medicines available in europe 10 years before the FDA approved them.
Yes, I have been victim of several crimes. The guy did not get sent to prison, so no, the court did not "help" me.
Well there you fucking go, so stop pretending the government solves those things, because its extremely inefficient and unjust when it comes to crime.
Pretty sure there are some governments that do a decent job, to some extent. The issue is "power corrupts" and "power protects power" principles. People who obtain power, in theory, become corrupted, to some degree.
A government is just a dirty reflection of its own society a very advanced civil society will have a better state than a third world country, but the state its still harmful to its society regardless of its advancement.
If we were a true anarchist society, I could kill you for disagreeing with me and I face no consequences, outside of maybe having to deal with your family.
No thats not true, just as an example in Mexico since justice is rarely served in rural areas people lynch criminals, they are far more effective in serving justice, actually more just and a bigger deterrant to crime since they are pretty brutal, and this is the most barbaric form of anarchist justice, a more developed society easily deals with criminals in an organized fashion without the need of a state
Did you like the "wild west" in US history? People shooting each other in the street?
Again you have no idea what anarchy is... im pretty sure the united states had a government in the times of the wild west didnt it? they had an army, sheriff taxation etc etc etc. That is an example of a shitty state, not of anarchy.
Cause I am sure you like your internet, with your power, and rent, and money, cause in an anarchist society, there is nothing to enforce your rental agreement or property ownership, there is nothing to govern your power supply from being cut because they no longer feel like honoring your service agreement, etc. And money, cause, ya know...I doubt you want to have to raise livestock to barter for other goods...since money (well, fiat currency) is backed by governing bodies.
LOL yeah there fucking is something stopping the company from cutting my supply its called free market, my energy company is shit? well then I easily decide to give my money to a company with better service... just the way you do with any other mother fucking service you have, your Cable TV, your Internet, etc.
But guess when you CANT switch to other company... when its a monopoly held by the state, now they are the ones who can actually cut your power and you can do shit about it.
On December 30 2014 18:52 Romm3l wrote:
national defence, laws and credible enforcement of human rights, property rights, social welfare, education, provision of public goods, regulation of pollution...
...yeah we're better off without any of that shit (lol)
facepalm... this isnt like discussing religion with religious people its even fucking worse.
National Defense... you mean armies? oh yeah right, what would the world do without armies? I mean, what would we do without the incessant slaughter of innocents through history, what would we do without atomic bombs, concentration camps, drones bombing the shit out of the middle east... We better have a fleet of 5,000 F-15 fighters jets paid with the public enemy... what happens if Genghis Khan tries to cross the border zomg! lol
credible enforcement of human rights? Do we live in the same world or something? because in the world I live in human rights are trampled by the hundreds of millions every single day
You dont need a state to have property rights
Welfare is an idiotic inefficient attempt to give back crumbs after the state send those people into poverty in the first place that doesn't exist in most countries.
Public education is garbage and far inferior to private education, I have gone to private schools since kindergarten to University all my life, there is no need for state education.
Pollution regulation yeah... newsflash the USA is the 2nd biggest pollutant in the world, so please tell me more about how the wonderful state protects environment.
I dont know if we live in the same world. I live in western europe and things are pretty damn good here. there aren't any russians or chinese invading. I can walk down the street without fear of being knived for my pocket change because there is a credible deterrent in place. People generally specialise and do their jobs because they expect they will be paid and able to spend their money in a stable system. people innovative and come up with quality of life enhancing things all the time because they have confidence the system will let them profit from their innovations through a patent system. productivity is high and im enjoying a standard of living superior to anyone in past human history.
Anarchy has nothing to do with what 99% of people think it is. It doesn't mean you should not respect people and go out on the street killing anyone on sight and riot and destroy stuff.
I'm glad people like RikD are starting to question things.
Romm3l please the way you are talking about things are a result of a system which was designed to serve us the human population, but instead is turned around and only serves a few hundred thousand ( at most ). You have absolutely no idea how brainwashed we are, you should read about Bernays and then you should read the things he's written. It ll take a bunch of time though cause the way he writes makes me feel like i'm a retard.
To be honest there is way too much on this to just put it up in a topic, and even the 2 books above are just a slim part of the things everyone should read. And if i try to put out the ideas out of them I would just look like a conspiracy theorist, mostly cause my english isn't good enough to transmit their messages
We have alternatives, the main problem is, and i think here is where Brand's major mistake is, that people fear big changes unless it absolutely necessary to do them i.e. WW2 Hitler's regime etc.etc.
And honestly, Baal is probably years ahead of reading materials and way of thinking compared to most of you on this topic ( me too probably ) his ideas are legit. You guys should really start educating yourself and stop listening to mainstream nonsense whose only purpose is to bring more propaganda to the masses more.
On December 30 2014 19:34 Romm3l wrote:
I dont know if we live in the same world. I live in western europe and things are pretty damn good here. there aren't any russians or chinese invading. I can walk down the street without fear of being knived for my pocket change because there is a credible deterrent in place. People generally specialise and do their jobs because they expect they will be paid and able to spend their money in a stable system. people innovative and come up with quality of life enhancing things all the time because they have confidence the system will let them profit from their innovations through a patent system. productivity is high and im enjoying a standard of living superior to anyone in past human history.
good job bro, while you do that there are about 1 500 000 000 people that are living in absurd conditions and barely have things to eat, and another 2 000 000 000 that are close to the same path
but you are living in western europe and don't give a fuck so way to go
quality of your life will be as good as corporations want it to be, you re just another slave you just get to be on the brighter part of it
Why did the rich get a 30 trillion bailout @ 2008 but the common man got to get kicked out of his house and lose his job. Do you know that world hunger is estimated at 30 billion / year ( ofc that number will start to fall off with time of something is done about it ) thats absolutely nothing
Why does this kid have to go through all this trouble and struggle to get funding to do something good :
Why do people vote? Do you know that every USA president so far in history is the one that got the most funding ( most likely things will be the same in any "democratic " country ) ? They can just make it a fund raiser and highest one gets to be president.
And most of all why is LOBBYING still legal ? Answer to this last question with a morally legit answer and don't be bothered by it i dare you
And honestly how does this forum still cope with Gnarly ?
He is either the biggest retard to ever exist on earth or just a huge troll
Oh yeah by the way the main problem behind anarchy working as a system is that we, the people, must become better human beings therefore fuck that idea !
These are not conspiracy theories about illuminati and reptiles or 10 people that control the world, we are talking about a mass of corporations which have one single goal - Profit, when you put Profit into the center of your system and not stuff like, welllll lets seee : saving the planet, have all people get a chance to decent existence and overall having basic moral system then its bound to fail. Yes it probably wont fail within our lifetime ( at least i hope so) but when it does we will have been just as guilty
On December 30 2014 19:34 Romm3l wrote:
I dont know if we live in the same world. I live in western europe and things are pretty damn good here. there aren't any russians or chinese invading. I can walk down the street without fear of being knived for my pocket change because there is a credible deterrent in place. People generally specialise and do their jobs because they expect they will be paid and able to spend their money in a stable system. people innovative and come up with quality of life enhancing things all the time because they have confidence the system will let them profit from their innovations through a patent system. productivity is high and im enjoying a standard of living superior to anyone in past human history.
First you have to understand that the level of civility in germany its held together by its society not by your government, the reason why you dont get stabed in the streets for your wallet is not because there is police and jails, every freaking country has jails an cops and crime is not related on how fast cops run... its based on its societys poverty and civility, create wealth and provide good education and crime is reduced drastically, the solution is that, not bigger police.
The patent system is an absolute hoax and actually if you study about it you will realize that it actually hampers innovation, if you want a recent example of ridiculous patent laws see Apple vs Samsung that was bullshit to a point where they both agreed to stop this ridiculous war, it wasnt helping mobile technology grow, on the contrary, also read what Elon Musk has to say about patents, and how is going to release ALL the patents for battery technologies, its because he is aware that it only would stop progress in electric car technologies.
The reason you enjoy a higher standard of living is because of societys growth and the government is not responsible for it, it didnt even helped one bit, on the contrary
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Gnarly United States. Dec 30 2014 21:39. Posts 1723
On December 30 2014 17:28 chris wrote:
also with anarchy, baal, you would not have been able to ban people, as you used to!
you are mad you lost mod status! i knew it!
>baal's face when
I would be free to ban all day long TLP is a privately owned company so again you misunderstand anarchy with communism.
are you drunk or something? tlp? it's lp... nothing more, no .net like tl. get it right.
>privately owned company
>a website
>based in a capitalist nation
>confusing anarchy with communism
I just can't even.
Diversify or fossilize!
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Gnarly United States. Dec 30 2014 21:41. Posts 1723
On December 30 2014 19:53 Spitfiree wrote:
And honestly how does this forum still cope with Gnarly ?
He is either the biggest retard to ever exist on earth or just a huge troll
Oh yeah by the way the main problem behind anarchy working as a system is that we, the people, must become better human beings therefore fuck that idea !
These are not conspiracy theories about illuminati and reptiles or 10 people that control the world, we are talking about a mass of corporations which have one single goal - Profit, when you put Profit into the center of your system and not stuff like, welllll lets seee : saving the planet, have all people get a chance to decent existence and overall having basic moral system then its bound to fail. Yes it probably wont fail within our lifetime ( at least i hope so) but when it does we will have been just as guilty
Instead of resorting to name calling like a child, why don't you try to refute my arguments like an adult? Oh, wait...
On December 30 2014 19:53 Spitfiree wrote:
These are not conspiracy theories about illuminati and reptiles or 10 people that control the world, we are talking about a mass of corporations which have one single goal - Profit, when you put Profit into the center of your system and not stuff like, welllll lets seee : saving the planet, have all people get a chance to decent existence and overall having basic moral system then its bound to fail. Yes it probably wont fail within our lifetime ( at least i hope so) but when it does we will have been just as guilty
what do corporations have to do with government? in an anarchic society, wouldn't corporations still exist? wouldnt they still be after profit?
Yes they would, but corporations are dictated by the laws of offer and demand, a corporations that offer a shitty product or bloats the price or pisses off its costumers will lose ground to the competition on a free market society.
The state is not subjected to those laws, they will collect any amount of taxes they want regardless of their performance.
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Jubert69 United States. Dec 30 2014 22:54. Posts 3191
On December 30 2014 19:53 Spitfiree wrote:
These are not conspiracy theories about illuminati and reptiles or 10 people that control the world, we are talking about a mass of corporations which have one single goal - Profit, when you put Profit into the center of your system and not stuff like, welllll lets seee : saving the planet, have all people get a chance to decent existence and overall having basic moral system then its bound to fail. Yes it probably wont fail within our lifetime ( at least i hope so) but when it does we will have been just as guilty
what do corporations have to do with government? in an anarchic society, wouldn't corporations still exist? wouldnt they still be after profit?
More government involvement and regulations create big corporations and get them closer to monopolies.
US Example:
FDA is a PRIME example of government involvement causing corporations to get stronger. The FDA is designed for the intent to make working drugs enter the market and clear out all the non-working drugs. The result is driving the cost of drugs to non affordable prices without insurance.
Anyone who lives in the US knows costs of medication/prescription drugs is extremely high. That's because in order for a drug to enter a market, $$$$ must be spent in order to get drugs into the market.
Companies will still be profit driven. People will be profit driven. The difference is as Baal said "corporations that offer a shitty product or bloats the price or pisses off its costumers will lose ground to the competition on a free market societ"
i'm pretty pro anarchy but think there is a need for minimal government. i think this is one of those issues not really worth discussing. there is a lot of content out there that some people will read with and agree with and some people who will never go out and read these books because these questions or thoughts never occurred.
anyway regardless the government is here to stay and will prob only get bigger.
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Gnarly United States. Dec 31 2014 04:07. Posts 1723
On December 30 2014 21:20 Baalim wrote:
Yes they would, but corporations are dictated by the laws of offer and demand, a corporations that offer a shitty product or bloats the price or pisses off its costumers will lose ground to the competition on a free market society.
The state is not subjected to those laws, they will collect any amount of taxes they want regardless of their performance.
>corporations are in anarchistic societies
There you go, thinking your personal definition of anarchy is that without a public enforcer of government. Try using the original etymological use of the word, please.
Also, a "corporation" would be imposing it's own authority, publicly enforcing it's own shitty products, to try to stay alive. This can be done by slander campaigns or through more violent methods. Like, the amount of cognitive dissonance is to the extreme in your post.
as usual your stupidity is unbearable, why you are not banned is beyond me.
The etymological definition of anarchy when used in a general context it refers to the state/government, it can also be used in a specific scenarios to refer to a lack of authority figure. I mentioned its etymology to get rid of the wrong definition that associates with chaos which has nothing to do with anarchy as a political or social structure.
How can a company enforce its authority (authority of what kind and over whom?) and its shitty products? please elaborate on this ridiculous claim.
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Gnarly United States. Dec 31 2014 04:41. Posts 1723
On December 30 2014 22:44 mnj wrote:
i'm pretty pro anarchy but think there is a need for minimal government. i think this is one of those issues not really worth discussing. there is a lot of content out there that some people will read with and agree with and some people who will never go out and read these books because these questions or thoughts never occurred.
anyway regardless the government is here to stay and will prob only get bigger.
In USA the founding fathers were very emphatic in keeping the government as small as possible because the foresaw the potential problems of a big one, what they didnt predict is that no matter the size of your government it will always keep growing, more powerful and hungrier every year and their creation is the perfect proof of it, the smallest of governments turned into this Behemot with a vice grip on the entire world
so essentially the government protects ppl from companies who are willing to use violence for profit. at the same time the government itself is kind of a 'company' willing to use 'violence' for profit if ppl are disobedient. not as bad as like, a total dictatorship though, since it needs to be not super evil or it'd get overthrown?
i guess the current government exists in order to keep something worse from taking over? like in an anarchic society, cant some evil geniuses come together, secure a massive amount of power (money, land, whatever) and start doing really bad things and no one would be able to stop them because they have too much power? in a sense, they'd become the new government?
lets say u set anarchy into the world. Eventually ppl will form groups for securing themselves, these small groups will join together, then those aswell etc etc growing and in the end u will have that we now call authority. Simply because ppl need someone to look after them and make them feel safe. Be it god, government, parents etc. U cannot overwrite the human mindset.
