300 Buyins in 31 days at 50plo prop bet???

I hope this propbet will happen. I think your chance is super small, but I will definately root for you to succeed

300 buyins in 31 days. So 10bi/day. So even winning at 10bb/100 post rake (pre RB - not sure if rakeback counts for this) you would need 10k hands/day every day. Does anyone even beat 50nl for 10bb/100 anymore long term? Not even close I suspect. That PLO rake really is that bad it is not all doom and gloom. NL rake is too high (absurdly so for services provided and the long term health of the game involved) and PLO rake is far worse.

The last rake thread I read in HSPLO showed that at 100PLO virtually nobody was even beating the game pre RB and if anyone did it was by at most 2bb/100 (and that was the guy who moved up quickly to higher stakes or was down there slumming it for some reason). I don't play on stars so I can't comment on the games but I imagine that they are tougher than where I play similar stakes. Competent players do play that low in 2014 unlike 5 years ago when small stakes could be obliterated.

I'm going to assume you are going to be one of the best players to ever even hit these stakes. Everyone else is breaking even but you beat the game for 5bb/100. Now assuming you run decently you will have to grind out 20k hands a day each day for a month. I know you are capable of playing that many hands. however I am not sure you would really win at that clip or if you did would you be able to maintain that level of play over that many hours and tables? There are good reasons that afaik nobody has ever made $15k in one month of 50PLO. That just sounds nuts. I suppose if anyone can do it it would be you though.

I believe you would need to run good to do this; maybe in the top 20-30% of possible runs (factor this into the odds you lay). Playing good hours and getting optimal amounts of fish at your tables will be important and possibly the difference. I'd rather play 100 tables Saturday afternoon/evening than trying to grind for example more hours over less tables in the middle of the night.

will rakeback count for final totals? If it does you stand a better chance obviously, if not it may be virtually impossible. With rakeback involved and playing on stars (SNE you are right? 70%+ RB) you could probably mass enough hands to do this but it would kinda be against the point of the bet (other than making money which is #1 I assume) which is to see if low stakes is just a rake trap or not. If the bet is no rakeback involved I think you should take no less than 10-1 and probably closer to 20-1. You might need a 10-5% run on top of all the discipline, time, etc. to even do this. As a friend I'd recommend not doing this but if you can get good enough odds, can afford it, and are driven enough to find out some answers to your questions in the OP I'm sure we would all like to know how a world class PLO player fares in today's low stakes PLO games. Get your adderall ready lol

To answer your question, I would ask a few people on stars if the reduced rake affect at 100plo versus 50plo makes up for the harder games (100 PLO I assume will have better regs and less fish).

If the rake has the same cap at both stakes; ie. 10% capped at $3 I'd say you should go with 100PLO. I would have to look at exact numbers though and when I get a chance I will.

I also would not set a hand # goal for the month as we do not know what that number should be. Optimal strategy would be to just hit it as hard as possible out of the gate without spewing and to see where you are after a couple days or a week.

Trax thank you very much for the well thought out response


I honestly have no idea on what winrates are at these stakes right now but I would assume that most of the reg's that are multi tabling here probably don't multi table as effective as they could be so I really don't think the winrates matter that much.

This would all be pre-rakeback as well. I will share my thoughts on some of what you said after we get some more replies as I don't want to sway anyone's opinion one way or the other.

As far as zoom PLO100 goes, pretty much all the longterm regs have winrates between -2 to +3 bb/100 pre-rb. (Rakeback is something like 3-3.5 bb/100 for SNs). There are probably a few players who beat it for like 7-8 bb/100, but thats about it, never heard of anyone having a bigger sample of 10+ bb/100. Not saying its not possible, it probably is (if like sauce or galfond 2-tables it), but its super hard.

But deep ante tables thats a different story. There are good players (and probably good table-selecters) who beat it for 15+ bb/100.

Not sure about regular non zoom non deep tables, probably somewhere in-between.

Deep ante would be better if you can get enough of those tables running for sure

doable but very unlikely. you could heater hard, start crushing, tilt the regs and win infinite probably, but most likely youd either win at like 4bb/100 and wouldnt be able to play enough hands or play enough hands and have your play suffer a bit.

What trax said, just hit it as hard as you can out of the gate and reevaluate as often as is reasonable.

Doable but you probs need to run above ev in 31 days to complete this imho

On June 27 2014 13:49 Daut wrote: doable but very unlikely. you could heater hard, start crushing, tilt the regs and win infinite probably, but most likely youd either win at like 4bb/100 and wouldnt be able to play enough hands or play enough hands and have your play suffer a bit.

This. But I also have no clue how soft PLO50 or PLO100 is, so who knows!

Crystal meth seems like a key ingredient.

31 day meth habit never hurt nobody.

don't do it joey! just play your normal game and live your life! don't lose it to plo50

For the record, that's because nobody has ever had a 31 day meth habit.

Think at that point you'd be......all in.

I mean pot.





I think my birthday broke my funny zone

On June 27 2014 13:49 Daut wrote: doable but very unlikely. you could heater hard, start crushing, tilt the regs and win infinite probably, but most likely youd either win at like 4bb/100 and wouldnt be able to play enough hands or play enough hands and have your play suffer a bit.

I don't think my approach would include that many hands against other regs but I could make it to 1 mill hands if I needed to (i think) (could i?)

On June 27 2014 15:01 KeyleK_uk wrote: What trax said, just hit it as hard as you can out of the gate and reevaluate as often as is reasonable. Doable but you probs need to run above ev in 31 days to complete this imho

I think first sentence is the best way to go about it

On June 27 2014 15:45 JonnyCosMo wrote: This. But I also have no clue how soft PLO50 or PLO100 is, so who knows!

Cosmooooooo, I am curious to this as well

On June 27 2014 19:19 chris wrote: don't do it joey! just play your normal game and live your life! don't lose it to plo50

lol I need to put this in large font on my desktop when I start thinking about trying this

On June 27 2014 18:34 FrEaK[S.sIR] wrote: Crystal meth seems like a key ingredient. 31 day meth habit never hurt nobody.

I think adderall >>>> crystal in this scenario, probably 3 or 4 other drugs I would do before

Yeah, I know..I has that too

You would have to run pretty damn good. Just do a trial run obv (if you havnt already).

no trail run would ever be the same thing, i've never done trial runs in the past, usually just go after it and see what happens

On June 29 2014 09:54 Joeingram1 wrote: no trail run would ever be the same thing, i've never done trial runs in the past, usually just go after it and see what happens

You def need to find out the fish to reg ratio, start marking players ahead of time. This many hands + hrs itll help to have good table and seat selection. If you just do this cold with no history i dont think you have a chance. But would root for you obv!

more fun challenge - how about winning 15 buy ins at each limit plo 50 through as high as you can go in a month?

if you ever make this propbet i will give you action for sure

from my experience something around 200 bi's is doable on PLO50 as long as you play for 10+ hours a day fully concentrated AND if you include rb

300? might be possible if you run super good. I'd rather see 300 bi in EV (incl. rb) - now that would be a challenge

Lol at the meth jokes. First thing first, maybe you shouldn't have mentioned about the prop bet in the first place, because otherwise there will always be ppl watching you and eventually play against you and it's kind of fuck your "timings" up. I know it could be another source of motivation but i think it'd have been better kepping this with your close friends. ofc its just personal opinion and I'm sorry but I've almost never played Omaha, so i cant reeally help you for the technical part. Either way, good luck !

On June 30 2014 15:11 RaiZ wrote: Lol at the meth jokes. First thing first, maybe you shouldn't have mentioned about the prop bet in the first place, because otherwise there will always be ppl watching you and eventually play against you and it's kind of fuck your "timings" up. I know it could be another source of motivation but i think it'd have been better kepping this with your close friends. ofc its just personal opinion and I'm sorry but I've almost never played Omaha, so i cant reeally help you for the technical part. Either way, good luck !

Hey Raiz, I def understand where you are coming from with that thinking. If the only goal was to try to make money from friends by doing some crazy prop like this then that would by far be the best idea so as little people knew. The fun in these types of things is putting the spotlight on it all. People follow along, they get excited, they get motivated to start playing more themselves and hopefully with this one if I take it on, I can encourage more people that playing those stakes at PLO is something that you can win at and not be scared of the rake.

On June 29 2014 12:04 handbanana21 wrote: You def need to find out the fish to reg ratio, start marking players ahead of time. This many hands + hrs itll help to have good table and seat selection. If you just do this cold with no history i dont think you have a chance. But would root for you obv!

I would probably spend some time doing this before beginning, might actually be more fun to go in cold lol the more challenging the better

On June 29 2014 20:30 chris wrote: more fun challenge - how about winning 15 buy ins at each limit plo 50 through as high as you can go in a month?

kind of an interesting idea, maybe I can turn that into something different, like a win xxxx amount of buyins starting at PLO2-PLO100 in a month

On June 30 2014 11:39 MIStrZZZ wrote: if you ever make this a propbet i will give you action for sure and will also make sure that you will not win from my experience something around 200 bi's is doable on PLO50 as long as you play for 10+ hours a day fully concentrated AND if you include rb 300? might be possible if you run super good. I'd rather see 300 bi in EV (incl. rb) - now that would be a challenge

you gonna make sure I don't win eh whats your plan

I'd play on your tables I'm certainly not a better player than you, but I believe that would drastically lower your winnings anyway

On July 01 2014 11:53 MIStrZZZ wrote: I'd play on your tables I'm certainly not a better player than you, but I believe that would drastically lower your winnings anyway

It will be interesting to see how well you can play 24 hours a day on 15 tables !!!!

well.. if there's a big enough motivation

lol, me and you would probably make very good friends

you sound a bit crazy like I am

do you really think that few nice words are gonna make me soft on the tables when you start the challenge?

joey i think u maybe able to do this - but its so arrogant and egotistical to not take 1-5 hours to go through the games 20 mins at a time for a day

mark the regs - the targets, then go do something like grind ur normal limit

20 mins a day for a week isn't a lot - will increase your odds soooo much, esp cuz u will have 50 tables up so it will be harder to colorcode etc when u start - but u can do 1-4-6-10 marking them - saves time as well

On July 05 2014 23:29 GoldRush wrote: joey i think u maybe able to do this - but its so arrogant and egotistical to not take 1-5 hours to go through the games 20 mins at a time for a day mark the regs - the targets, then go do something like grind ur normal limit 20 mins a day for a week isn't a lot - will increase your odds soooo much, esp cuz u will have 50 tables up so it will be harder to colorcode etc when u start - but u can do 1-4-6-10 marking them - saves time as well

i think the less of my approach I say that I am thinking might be great ideas the better for action

On July 05 2014 23:29 GoldRush wrote: joey i think u maybe able to do this - but its so arrogant and egotistical to not take 1-5 hours to go through the games 20 mins at a time for a day mark the regs - the targets, then go do something like grind ur normal limit 20 mins a day for a week isn't a lot - will increase your odds soooo much, esp cuz u will have 50 tables up so it will be harder to colorcode etc when u start - but u can do 1-4-6-10 marking them - saves time as well

LoL This so obviously can't believe I missed it

On July 05 2014 23:29 GoldRush wrote: joey i think u maybe able to do this - but its so arrogant and egotistical to not take 1-5 hours to go through the games 20 mins at a time for a day mark the regs - the targets, then go do something like grind ur normal limit 20 mins a day for a week isn't a lot - will increase your odds soooo much, esp cuz u will have 50 tables up so it will be harder to colorcode etc when u start - but u can do 1-4-6-10 marking them - saves time as well

LoL This so obviously can't believe I missed it.

However I think this would be against the spirit of the bet surely? The idea is to win 300 buyins at a limit lower than yours you don't really know.