"I need help rant", stake - Page 3

Longple I'm willing to stake you for 200NL zoom. The terms would be that absolutely no shot taking or heads up play is allowed under any circumstances. I doubt I will hear from you because you probably think 200NL is beneath you.. but let me know if you are interested.

On October 25 2012 21:49 Xervean wrote: Longple I'm willing to stake you for 200NL zoom. The terms would be that absolutely no shot taking or heads up play is allowed under any circumstances. I doubt I will hear from you because you probably think 200NL is beneath you.. but let me know if you are interested.

A more obvious reason would be that he would get better offers even if he only had half his skill, experience, integrity and other things.

It would be nice if Ket can come forward and drop his take on his previous stake. I understand its tough to be transparent when the ex-stakee is also a friend you wish to maintain friendship but longple is publicly asking for a stake in a community that u hold a large influence in.

If you can answer some of these questions, it would be beneficial for the future backer and anyone who is showing interest in the community.

1) Why did you quit the stake? $33,000 is a decent clip to quit on specially if you thought the stakee was profitable. If you didn't want to risk any more money, why didn't you sell him off with a discounted make up to another backer to recoup at least $5,000-$15,000 if you were entirely set on quitting him?

2) $33,000 is a large amount to be stuck on a stake that's majorly 2/4 to 5/10. Was there a daily stop-loss in place? Longple mentioned that he was allowed to play in a HU variance game long as he thought he had an edge. With most of the big losses coming from these HU/short handed games, did you talk him over with buckling up with table selection down the line? Did you feel that you were wronged in anyway with the ground rules you established?

3) I am guessing there was a make up in place. Looking at the winning tab in the stake, it looks like a lot of the losses came from 2/4 as well. Did you put a ban on 5/10-10/20 later in the stake and had him grind mostly lower stakes before entirely quitting him?

4) Was there any problem communicating with longple? Do you believe that longple was in line with how you believed the stake would go?

Obviously, anyone who plays on a stake has issues. As a backer who staked dozens of cash game players long term, I understand that in order for the investment to be successful, you have to know what the issues of your players are. I think by answering some of these questions, longple's future backer can use your experience with him and fully expect and know what to incorporate during the stake.

Also longple, I think it may be in your best interest to look for a stake at $2/4 and $2.5/5 zoom. I'm sure you'll have backers lined up for that. I think it's a bit wrong to want a stake at bigger stakes with your track record when youre not even planning to commit on a long-term stake. It's just simply risk > reward and if you are asking for help to the community, you should be asking for help on stakes where there's least amount of risk to someone that's willing to help.

Thank you for takeing time asking some questions Andrew, to answer some of it i guess neither me or Ket knew to much about stakeing, i learnt yesterday pretty much how makeup works in cashgames from Smuft. But basically we tryed to mimic what me and daut did earlier. i did play alot of hands under 5/10, as u can see in the results and most of the agreements were done on the fly as we kept regular communication over the 2-3 months i played under Ket, wich was a form of some sort of makeup i guess. In highnsight tho, theres alot of things we probably should have done differently.

Ket has alot of stuff going on IRL atm if i understood him correctly, involveing leaving his appartment and such, im sure he will stop by and give his thoughts on the whole thing as soon as he got time for it.

Ive gotten alot of PMs and alot of ppl have offered a helping hand, couldnt imagine that i would have this many options. ive been in more serious contact with a few big name LPrs and it looks like im gonna go into a big semilong deal with some wellknown lpers.

nothing written in stone yet so maybe i shouldnt post about if officially but were working things out! updates to come.

On October 26 2012 03:59 DustySwedeDude wrote: Show nested quote + On October 25 2012 21:49 Xervean wrote: Longple I'm willing to stake you for 200NL zoom. The terms would be that absolutely no shot taking or heads up play is allowed under any circumstances. I doubt I will hear from you because you probably think 200NL is beneath you.. but let me know if you are interested. A more obvious reason would be that he would get better offers even if he only had half his skill, experience, integrity and other things.

lol no doubt

no tsure if bump will be effective, so I will post it here :
http://www.liquidpoker.net/poker-forum/649624/Herro_my_riddle_friends!.html

gl to you longle !

On October 31 2012 09:28 kingpowa wrote: sure I'm dumb

fixed my own post. It is a blog post, it won't bump.
but, found it with the search thing so did not check if it was a blog or a thread.

It actually does bump here:
http://www.liquidpoker.net/poker-forum/part/18/Poker-Blogs-Forum

lol "Ive been playing back and forth and been busting my roll, hm, i dont really wanna count how many times ive busted it on stupidity."


3 years later and still a moneymanagement donk

T_T

I've taken a long time with replying to this, sorry about that. I didn't really want to think about the whole thing and put it behind me, but I figure since multiple ppl including longple himself have requested I bear in with a few words, I figure I owe it to the community to make some effort.

I got into the deal with longple believing he is 100% trustworthy in that he definitely won't do anything with malicious intent to try and defraud me. Ofcourse I still believe that now, so just to get that out of the way first even though it was never in question.

When I started the deal, I held the belief that longple has a good enough A-game to do well in the average 2/4-5/10 nlhe game and higher with good game selection, but was very liable to play much worse than his A-game if left to his own devices. What I wanted to try, was to see if I could harness his best and cut out a lot of his worst through regular micro-management and control over what he plays and when. One significant mistake I made was to not properly estimate the commitment that this would take, and of my life circumstances which made such commitments more difficult (basically gf, travel, too much of everything but poker). And so longple was left unmonitored for far longer than he ideally should have been in my opinion.

He gave me communication and updates every few days on how he's doing, how he's feeling and what he's up to, all very well. Mostly during this time he was grinding steadily and consistently at the midstakes, with intermittent blowups at higher stakes (I have no doubt there was a decent amount of runbad as well ofcourse).

After some months of showing a lot of discipline rebuilding for his mistakes by grinding out midstakes, he put some pressure on me to let him play 5/10 again. To be fair this is the opportunity he wanted from the deal to begin with, and he had shown a lot of patience. Given that he had only lost higher and crushed lower I wasn't thrilled about it but let him have what he wants. We noted that his results had been extremely good when patiently grinding it out in 4-6 handed games at midstakes, but his variance had been extreme and results very negative when battling hu/3handed vs good regs. Therefore we made an agreement that he would not play any hu/shorthanded at all when he starts at 5/10.

I sent extra money so he would have a decent amount on 2 sites to play 5/10 with, and we began. Initially his play and mindset was good, and he was off to a great start results-wise. Here's where I slip up again, instead of micromanaging daily like I should out of caution for what might happen, I left him to his own devices. A couple of weeks later I learned that he had "fucked up", played hu and 3 handed like we agreed he shouldn't, and lost most of the money I had given him. Obviously this isn't the way to make my day, but I took it very well and didn't outwardly show any anger or bitterness. I said we should pause the stake for a while until I decide what I want to do. So in answer to AndrewSong's first question, I haven't actually formally declared my quitting of the stake yet, and so I believe that by right I can continue to back longple if I choose to do so. (do you agree longple?)

As Andrewsong has pointed out, I think it's reasonable that I have the option to sell off longple's makeup to his next backer for a discouted rate. Since a lot of the losses were through a fault of longple and breaking of an agreement, I don't think this is at all unfair for longple to still shoulder this makeup from his next backer? If this is something another potential backer might be interested in, feel free to shoot me a message.

I hope this account of what's up so far answers some of your questions, and if there are things I've missed or got wrong longple can feel free to add them. Also I'll answer any further questions.

he comes on here looking for a stake and then potentially gets his 33k makeup sold to someone else as result!

so if someone wants to stake longple, they have to buy the makeup? Is this right?

its very messy, everything is being discussed as theres been a big missunderstanding (honestly from both parts it seems like) between me and ket and naz/smuft/mig/daut that i signed another deal with already

were working it out

On October 31 2012 12:29 longple wrote: lol "Ive been playing back and forth and been busting my roll, hm, i dont really wanna count how many times ive busted it on stupidity." 3 years later and still a moneymanagement donk T_T

But ur aura has grown by a lot, and no one can take that from you!!

On October 31 2012 18:01 handbanana21 wrote: so if someone wants to stake longple, they have to buy the makeup? Is this right?

What does that mean, I don't fully understand? (buy the makeup)

Sometimes he was trannying it up a bit and spent a lot on make up, just what happens sometimes.

ket staked him and longple owes him 33k of profits to 'make up' the hole he is in.

because Ket staked him and they never formally ended the stake, longple is essentially owned by ket, in terms of poker. to get his freedom, he would have to make up 33k to ket. then whatever future backer he has would begin to see returns.

however, things like this happen and my guess (speculation) would be that if something does get formalized , it is likely that ket and the other stakers would split initial profits until ket was paid, but he might accept a discount on the make up.

(example, longple gets 33% of profits, ket 33% and group 33%) and ket gets full 33k back, then its 50/50 longple and group.. or ket gets 50% while group gets 25% and longple 25% but ket discounts the makeup from 33k to 28k or something.

its sort of like a declaration on future earnings for longple

On October 31 2012 19:49 chris wrote: ket staked him and longple owes him 33k of profits to 'make up' the hole he is in. because Ket staked him and they never formally ended the stake, longple is essentially owned by ket, in terms of poker. to get his freedom, he would have to make up 33k to ket. then whatever future backer he has would begin to see returns. however, things like this happen and my guess (speculation) would be that if something does get formalized , it is likely that ket and the other stakers would split initial profits until ket was paid, but he might accept a discount on the make up. (example, longple gets 33% of profits, ket 33% and group 33%) and ket gets full 33k back, then its 50/50 longple and group.. or ket gets 50% while group gets 25% and longple 25% but ket discounts the makeup from 33k to 28k or something. its sort of like a declaration on future earnings for longple

Seems highly unlikely naz and all of them would want to stake someone assume make up or splitting profit with ket....kinda shitty situation for both ket and naz's group.....

yea dont speculate so much now ppl, we're all working things out