Another drama over unpaid debt: Daniel "Jungleman12" Cates calls out Tom "durrrr" Dwan - Page 4

On September 26 2014 00:38 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On September 25 2014 21:34 ggplz wrote: Baal reckons people who defend Dwan (I'd prefer to say to look at it with a degree of balance) have a broken moral compass. Yet in the same post he then says he would look to violently attack Dwan to get "his" money back at this point. Even though, it's not actually "his" money nor is Dwan violating anything... he's just not playing you right now and that angers you. That is within their terms though. From what I read, the terms of the bet don't stipulate a timeline for completion which means they could go on forever, "legally". Dwan and Jungleman have been incredibly flakey with the details of this bet so goodluck proving he's in violation of anything or that there's anything to violate. If Jungleman was to go with legal action though it would force Dwan to either defend against it legally (and probably win) or for Dwan to pay up some money, probably mostly to maintain a trustworthy/honourable image more than any other reason (see penalty, honourable). I don't think Jungle wants to try that because he knows it won't go well for him. The penalty arrangement he's made is to try to keep with the spirit of the bet and to make things right while they don't play. Nothing enforces it though, only honour. Nobody really wants to talk about their limbo penalty agreement because that would show you that Dwan is complying with their terms and that Jungleman is just putting media pressure on Dwan. Again, why would Dwan respond to that? There's no option but to ignore it until you intend to play or settle. oh riiiight, so they can play 49,999 hands and if you are down, you just dont play the last hand ever... and that seems moral and reasonable to you, are you retarded? There is absolutely nothing wrong to use force to reclaim what is rightfully yours, to use the legal system is just another often unjust form of indirect violence, I firmly believe in doing justice by my own hand. Also read again, Dwan agreed to the penalties but he isnt paying them

Why are you jumping to that extreme example? They are 40% through the bet and durrrr is down only 30 buyins. Pretty sure there's no reasonable way someone can recover in 1 hand (the other guy would just fold his blind). Also, the judges would make a decision on it if someone stalled with 1 hand left although I don't think either player ever would.

I'm not going to debate the use of force. The point is that it's not rightfully yours.

Read from where? Because flushdraw.net and pokerlistings give conflicting information.

pokerlistings says:

That number is now at $300,000 and according to Cates, Dwan hasn't paid him a cent.

flushdraw says:

As for the finances involved, Dan told me that apart from the ‘challenge’ itself, he currently owes Dwan money, though that debt is currently being eaten away by the penalties Dwan is being charged as part of the challenge. Because of this arrangement, money isn’t currently passing between the two players.

So pick whichever you believe. I'll go with Jungle telling a half truth on pokerlistings and the whole truth on flushdraw. Jungle has no arguement until Dwan fails to pay him.

Wow baal acting like a typical mexican lol.

Try doing your tough guy act in the USA and you will be getting rammed in the anus asap doing 20 to life, LOL.

USA isn't mexico, get that straight.

And missing 1 hand in a 50k hand challenge is "immoral", riiiiiight

Well technically ggplz is right. If there's no actual agreement on when the challenge must be finished by or when payment must be made he really doesn't have much legal recourse.

But it's still pretty douchey of Dwan so the moral argument has a lot of legs.

He's not right there is also something like the spirit of the agreement. Not just ethically but also in law. You can't just put this on hold indefinitely it's absolutely outside the realm of reasonability.

You could argue that jungleman is forfeiting that with their secondary agreement (20k + x fees every 2 month period, increasing by 10k every period) otherwise why even make that agreement in the first place? There's a spirit to that agreement too. It's obviously to compensate Jungleman for that very reason and to force Dwan to play, eventually. Dwan is gonna end up being hit by some huge fees as time goes on. I think Jungleman is bringing this up again because he's worried Dwan may not be able to pay anything in the future and/or might refuse to pay after Jungleman's debt is paid off.