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Daut's quote. |
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You might also consider this as a view from me on $1/$2 Fullring.
Yesterday I went through a 5 buyin downswing, meaning I lost 1k.
Well, running bad is the best time to improve your game by finding leaks. This morning I read an interesting post by Daut saying that most players play their hands face up and this is so true.
I checked my Database and the biggest winners are also the biggest nits, and they do how they came to 1/2: by setmining. It's so fucking obvious what they are doing that I already leveled myself:
lets say a 14/10 limps UTG and I raise him with 97, flops comes A92, I cbet he checkraises me:
After a long session my thought process goes like this: "My opponent's play is so obvious and he has to know it. And he knows that a semidecent player (I consider myself as one) won't stack off on such a dry board with AK, so this is a great spot to bluff."
Watching at my hand I see second pair which makes it much less likely that my opponent holds 99, reducing his set range mostly to 22 and I call and my opponent shows 99.
Then I watch around the tables and all I see are regs like that or fish. The play is still the same as in the levels below, people are not bluffing in these spots and that's why Daut is so right. I have to meet a regular who will pull off a good bluff, haven't seen one so far.
The paradox part now is that people often make calls that only beat bluffs but just as I described bluffs don't play a role in these stakes.
So basically it's all a stupid orgy of donks throwing money at each other and all you have to do is figure out if you can beat their value range, which makes it quite easy to play once you understand this.
Yeah, I see some smartass coming and say that there are bluffs in the games, this is true, but those are either the 64/32/8 lagtards who simply spew around or some "I missed my flush now I bet a weak-ass amount on the river" type bluffs, but you will seldom to never see a well represented hand as a bluff.
Often I see a hand and think: "Wow, this is such a great spot to bluff", however, the regulars always have the hand they do represent.
Now, a reason being why everybody, especially the regs, is playing, let's say solid, but face-up poker is that you have to play like this yourself in order to beat the games.
Read the sample hand above and realize that when you try to outthink your opponents you end up leveling yourself and losing, simply said, thinking 2 levels above your opponent doesn't help.
Another thing that tells you your opponent's cards are bet sizes: Big bets (especially on the river) mean nuts, smallish bets, especially over several streets means very vulnerable hand.
Rethinking my play so far I realized that I always make money when I play ultra-nitty and not calling in spots where I think my opponent might be bluffing because it's a great spot to bluff, means that I am another of those regs, stacking the donks with my obvious sets.
ok, gonna continue grinding, already won back $500.
gl.
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| money won is twice as sweet as money earned. | Last edit: 15/06/2008 09:28 |
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EvilSky  Czech Republic. Jun 15 2008 09:49. Posts 8915 | | |
Yeah I have noticed that also, the people who make money arent the sickest players at all in fr, its the calm nitty ones.
Link to that daut post btw ? |
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haha, I love when I can put a "He bet = me fold" note on someone. |
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| money won is twice as sweet as money earned. | |
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ck20 . Jun 15 2008 10:03. Posts 1130 | | |
ok, so there is no room for skill edge, if we take ur plogpost seriously
k, i quit
oh, if there is by any means skill edge called 13 vpip and bet the nuts then tiltmonkey can learn it
if it was so easy i wouldnt be fucking broke |
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| | Last edit: 15/06/2008 10:04 |
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very good write here. i've had that same realization multiple times and it still doesn't always sink in  . |
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JYang United States. Jun 15 2008 10:08. Posts 2669 | | |
| | On June 15 2008 08:49 EvilSky wrote:
Yeah I have noticed that also, the people who make money arent the sickest players at all in fr, its the calm nitty ones.
Link to that daut post btw ? |
shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh dont reveal the secret |
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ck20 . Jun 15 2008 10:08. Posts 1130 | | |
and by the way isnt poker the same as other competetive games? U need to be on top to win, not just average who kills beginners/drunk idiots/retards
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ck20, you are playing micro stakes. Probably you have to figure out the very first basics here, like odds vs equity and stuff like that.
i said the regs are doing it and i wrote they play solidly. And yeah, i think i could have a winrate of 10BB+ at your microstakes.
Neither did i say there is no skill edge. After figuring out this my next step should be improving bet sizing for instance. |
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| money won is twice as sweet as money earned. | |
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JYang United States. Jun 15 2008 10:16. Posts 2669 | | |
problem with bluffin at microstakes is that its not really worth it and its hard. very hard. very very hard.
so just make ur game easier there to play by not bluffing
ez $ no? |
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i think you shouldn't be bluffing at microstakes beside c-betting. This is the reason why the games are so easy: You can always shove the nuts on the river and get called by TPTK or some other trash.
You don't have to make your opponent guessing if you are bluffing or nut, they will call anyway.
If you play high stakes you have to bluff in these spots some times in order to get paid off because good players will see fast that you only are doing this with a set (that's how I understand it, I haven't played high stakes myself, but this what i think it is after seeing CR vids / reading some articles). |
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| money won is twice as sweet as money earned. | |
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ggplz Sweden. Jun 15 2008 11:06. Posts 16784 | | |
6max on ipoker plays like this
its so /wrists |
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| if poker is dangerous to them i would rank sports betting as a Kodiak grizzly bear who smells blood after you just threw a javelin into his cub - RaiNKhAN | |
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PplusAD Germany. Jun 15 2008 11:39. Posts 7180 | | |
rofl GGplz !
haha i just made a blog entry about that and i figured exactly the same ... |
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| U see what i did there with A8 ? He 4 bets and there we go insta jam A8 : ---booooom -- . hahahaha ( Krantz) | |
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PplusAD Germany. Jun 15 2008 17:37. Posts 7180 | | |
Well after another session on Nl100 6max ipoker where i lost a good amount >-<
i had some hands , were i definitely heard u talking in the back.
f.e
I have KK in the BB LP limps , i raise 5bb he calls flop 4AA
my thinking : his limp//calling range preflop will be 22-88 mostly
therefore and isnce the board is paired i have value in a flop bet.
I bet 2/3 Pot he calls.
turn is a blank ... i guess he will call my flop bets a good amount with 22-88 here since he knews i do lots of continuation bets -> therfore there is value in a turn bet
i bet turn and he calls again. River is a Q
-> since he called 2/3 flop and 2/3 turn i assume he knows i have some kind of a hand .. pot is allready big enough and if he has a pocket pair he may check behind river after the Q came
i check and he full pots river !
And i am liek : wait ! wtf he full pots river after i check to him on this board ... why would he ever do this after i showed strength preflop , flop and turn ...
if he has a small pocket and is unsure if he is ahead or behind he would most likley check ... if he has a monster like AQ 44 why would he ever bet pot here ...
he knows i cant call that and he also knows i may call 1/2 pot with a hand that i bet flop and turn ...
if he pots that river giving all the information this can only mean he has like 88 and knows he can fold me out with a river bet butting me on a pocket pair hand that is not willing to call a whole full pot ...(since i check river he is aware i am not keen on the idea to make pot bigger on river)
-> call
villain shows A4
voila >-< self pwning due to overthinking hands
The easy way would have just been to think ; well he calls flop and turn -> i check fold river to any action bigger than 1/3 pot since he has like 44 or AX always when he bets river strong ...
Things is even when there are good spots to bluff , people at Nl100 almost never ever do. |
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| U see what i did there with A8 ? He 4 bets and there we go insta jam A8 : ---booooom -- . hahahaha ( Krantz) | |
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ck20 . Jun 16 2008 11:42. Posts 1130 | | |
ok, but do you bluff urself much there? |
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no, very seldom. If they call you once, they will call you on the river again most of the time.
this is not bad though. You simply have to adapt your style. Since you cannot bluff them, you have to v-bet them to hell. |
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| money won is twice as sweet as money earned. | |
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