When to give up?

rehab is for quitters, are you a quitter?

Get some coaching or try and look at poker from a fresh perspective.

Swings are only REALLY tough when you're a marginal winner. So the to really start crushing the games, you're going to either need some help from others or really do some hardcore studying on the game.

You retain:
10% of what you hear
20% of what you read (reading threads on LP really doesn't do too much unless...)
50% of what you do (you put it into action)
75% of what you discuss (discussing with a coach and friends)
90% of what you teach (posting advice, helping worse players)

Poker isn't a silver bullet where you can just read threads or the beginner's articles on LP and expect to win significant amounts of money. When the games start getting harder, you have to really dedicate time into learning. So if you really love poker, you're going to have to invest a ton of time into some of the things I've said above.

Get to work!

can u afford to move down to where the $$ doesn't matter?

On September 16 2009 17:54 edzwoo wrote: Get some coaching or try and look at poker from a fresh perspective. Swings are only REALLY tough when you're a marginal winner. So the to really start crushing the games, you're going to either need some help from others or really do some hardcore studying on the game. You retain: 10% of what you hear 20% of what you read (reading threads on LP really doesn't do too much unless...) 50% of what you do (you put it into action) 75% of what you discuss (discussing with a coach and friends) 90% of what you teach (posting advice, helping worse players) Poker isn't a silver bullet where you can just read threads or the beginner's articles on LP and expect to win significant amounts of money. When the games start getting harder, you have to really dedicate time into learning. So if you really love poker, you're going to have to invest a ton of time into some of the things I've said above. Get to work!

I have a coach. He is a high stakes limit player who averages around 6-10k a month. He has a helped me so much but it just seems that I am always running bad.

Quitters never win. Winners never quit. Look at david hasselhoff for inspiration.
Did he quit when Baywatch tanked? Hell no.
Did he quit when he got too hammered to stand and had it all captured on video? Hell no.
Why? Cuz he's not a quitter. He's a goddamn baller!

This will sound harsh, but I think your problem is that you convinced your family (and yourself) that you "can do this" before actually finding out whether you can do this.

its up to each of us to create the kind of lifestyle we want from where we are. try to imagine a few possibilities that you could realistically do in a year or so, imagine how daily life would be. Set a good one as a goal and go for it.

On September 16 2009 18:06 rgfdxm wrote: This will sound harsh, but I think your problem is that you convinced your family (and yourself) that you "can do this" before actually finding out whether you can do this.

Perhaps. I was hardly a winning player in NL and then when I switched to FL 2 months ago and got a coach I started winning. I think this post is more of a depressed rant because I just haven't had a decent roll to deal with yet since I have to cash out so much for IRL expenses. And lately I have had some disgusting swings where I have had more losing days than winning days and it's just getting to me. He tells me that he is absolutely positive I have the skill to beat 3/6 and should be playing 5/10 (he plays 10/20-30/60) but I just cannot get a roll together.

Then move down in stakes, win some BI's, do your best to maintain a decent roll and get your confidence back. GL

FL i think has less of an edge than NL.

but anyways, if you are thinking of quitting, then your whole mentality is wrong. I think taking a break from the game and coming back with a fresh mindset is a good idea.

On September 16 2009 18:03 ToTehEastSide wrote: can u afford to move down to where the $$ doesn't matter?

lol

On September 16 2009 18:31 Zalfor wrote: FL i think has less of an edge than NL. but anyways, if you are thinking of quitting, then your whole mentality is wrong. I think taking a break from the game and coming back with a fresh mindset is a good idea.

I had no idea it had less of an edge. Seemed like it had more since the fish are so incredibly bad on FL. How long of a break do you recommend?

Welcome to FL. Life's a bitch on this side. And yes there is less of an edge and it is much swingier and tilting than NL. But for some reason I still like it.

oh btw i saw some of your graph posts and you were running like god for a long time. That doesn't happen very often in limit.

On September 16 2009 19:17 RICHI8 wrote: oh btw i saw some of your graph posts and you were running like god for a long time. That doesn't happen very often in limit.

Maybe that's what it was. Maybe I started limit on a huge run and now my expectations are too high. Which limit do you play?

i do this to the extreme, but my personal advice is to always be willing to accept that you infact do not have a significant, if any, edge over the games you play in, a certain amount of skepticism is healthy.. it sounds you have lost skepticism?

(of course if you ask my friends, i kind of go overboard anytime i have a minor downswing)

If it isn't fun anymore then stop playing, but if it's your job and only source of income then don't stop until you find a job.

On September 16 2009 19:52 Elite00 wrote: If it isn't fun anymore then stop playing, but if it's your job and only source of income then don't stop until you find a job.

this. Also, it looks like people nowdays view poker as a easy exit to the "have a job" life, or earning quick extra money. Poker is not the right way imo. You should enjoy poker and not be worried about swings. If you're having trouble winning at your current stake and move down until you move up again and get another shot. You'll win eventually if you try infinite times.

On September 16 2009 19:52 Elite00 wrote: If it isn't fun anymore then stop playing, but if it's your job and only source of income then don't stop until you find a job.

I still love it and just got a job as a waiter. But I was looking at poker as either a means for a life or a means to make money to pay for college. Neither of which I have accomplished.

Imo you should 100% go to college, even if you just get a 2 year degree. If your having this kind of trouble/stress at the lower stakes you play. You would most likely be much happier, and full filled with a regular job. And you would make more money/contribute to society.

You should get into college asap, get loans, and play poker during summer/breaks/free time. You can easily do both, and there is no real reason not to.

What if 3-5 years from now you look back and are still not a great poker player and still a waiter? and still stressed out. Even if you end up being a poker pro and not using your college degree, it's always a good back up/alternative. And educating yourself/using your mind will increase your poker skill.

Also, withdrawing from your roll when at low stakes is EXTREMELY detrimental to your progress. It will keep you and low stakes MUCH too long and you will essentially lose money by not moving up and having 2x+ the win rate per hour.

Imo, you shouldn't withdraw from poker untill you are at .5/1 nl or higher preferably 1/2. And probably 5/10 limit+(im not a limit player) Basically I wouldn't withdraw till you can make 30-40+ an hour.

Do what you can to lower your expenses, move back in with parents? stop buying things you don't need etc. And play more.

I think I played 12 hours a day till i was at 1/2 NL. And I rarely withdrew.

I always consider quitting cause I suck, but then I don't cause Pinball is cute.

On September 16 2009 20:58 DaEm0niCuS wrote: Also, withdrawing from your roll when at low stakes is EXTREMELY detrimental to your progress. It will keep you and low stakes MUCH too long and you will essentially lose money by not moving up and having 2x+ the win rate per hour. Imo, you shouldn't withdraw from poker untill you are at .5/1 nl or higher preferably 1/2. And probably 5/10 limit+(im not a limit player) Basically I wouldn't withdraw till you can make 30-40+ an hour. Do what you can to lower your expenses, move back in with parents? stop buying things you don't need etc. And play more. I think I played 12 hours a day till i was at 1/2 NL. And I rarely withdrew.

I know -- and that's why I am in such a fucked up spot. Because I have not had a job in 7 months and I do not buy things I do not need. I only cash out for rent/phone bill. But I have gotten a job now and so hopefully will not cash out in the future. And also 3-5 years from now I will not be in this spot. I am giving poker one more year and if I have not had some significant results by summer of 2010 I say fuck it.

On September 16 2009 21:16 DustySwedeDude wrote: I always consider quitting cause I suck, but then I don't cause Pinball is cute.

Lol fuck you. Besides your accent, , you seem cool as hell and I wouldn't mind some NL coaching xD