Dataminig questions

Now that I'm playing NL25 I was thinking about buying 5milion hands at Hand HQ for $61
What u guys think? Good deal?

not really worth it...the player pool is too large and either way you dont really need it.

lol datamining...

try playing without a hud, you don't need it at 25nl and you'll improve way faster

On September 12 2009 22:37 PokerDoc88 wrote: lol datamining... try playing without a hud, you don't need it at 25nl and you'll improve way faster

play without HUD?
I think I can't live without HUD

can get you banned and totally not worth it

you build up more than enough in the hands you actually play anyway, dont see the need to go and get more than that

On September 12 2009 22:35 joLin wrote: not really worth it...the player pool is too large and either way you dont really need it.

this

players stats change over years dramaticlly, many statistics are useless

On September 12 2009 22:37 PokerDoc88 wrote: lol datamining... try playing without a hud, you don't need it at 25nl and you'll improve way faster

no..

just use your hud and adjust to your opponents according to the stats you get while playing.

On September 13 2009 03:45 bongky wrote: Show nested quote + On September 12 2009 22:37 PokerDoc88 wrote: lol datamining... try playing without a hud, you don't need it at 25nl and you'll improve way faster no.. just use your hud and adjust to your opponents according to the stats you get while playing.

On September 12 2009 22:43 tutz_x wrote: play without HUD? I think I can't live without HUD

This is the kind of response I was expecting from tut, and the reason I suggest not using a hud at all. There are more important things to pay attention to than 2 numbers showing vpip and pfr. Sure, playing with HUD can improve your game but honestly "not being able to play without HUD" is inexcusable and imo reveals that your game needs a lot more solid ABC foundation. You should be able to spot who is a nit, who is a loose fish, who is passive, who is agro, in only a few orbits of watching a player.

I view this similarly to protein supplements vs a good diet in bodybuilding. Good diet, eating 5-6 nutritional meals a day is the foundation of bodybuilding. ABC poker is the foundation of winning poker. Protein supplements = HUD. They supplement a good foundation, but will do nothing on their own.

You're acting as if you have to chose between two sides:
A) Using a HUD, yet failing to observe any move, habit or tendency
B) Observing, without a HUD

The truth is that using both, a good observation AND a HUD are the most beneficial. When you don't use a HUD at all, because "I have to be observing" or "you don't need a HUD, it's 25NL" you're not using the full potential of both stats and observation. Imo using both is so much better and more +EV than just observing or just using a HUD. Also I think being able to use a HUD properly is also a skill you have to develop. Tweaking your HUD to show the right stats, and acting accordingly to those stats is not always that easy, and developing these type of skills before say 100NL is also another step in becoming a better/more complete pokerplayer, since you're probably gonna use a HUD eventually (I don't see why you wouldnt)

ABC Poker is an oversimplified term imo, of which most players cannot explain clearly what it is.

I don't get why having more info could ever be bad. Not having a HUD can never be better

if youre being unobservant and robotic while using a hud, its not the hud's fault.

On September 13 2009 07:13 joLin wrote: if youre being unobservant and robotic while using a hud, its not the hud's fault.

+1

Not worth it. Player pool too big, and with few tables you should notice fairly quickly who is a regular and not a regular at these stakes.

On September 13 2009 07:13 joLin wrote: if youre being unobservant and robotic while using a hud, its not the hud's fault.

actually it probably is

On September 13 2009 10:53 TalentedTom wrote: Show nested quote + On September 13 2009 07:13 joLin wrote: if youre being unobservant and robotic while using a hud, its not the hud's fault. actually it probably is

the hud may cause it, but it is not the hud's fault

in either case, learning to play without the hud can only benefit your game

"I think I can't live without HUD" at 25nl is ridiculous and unacceptable.

Learning to use a HUD properly is important and probably overlooked by a lot of players. I'm not surprised to see some players with a mentality of deciding to call a big river bet, based on the premise of whether they're facing a player with 60/5 or 12/10 preflop stats. What they don't realise is that these preflop stats may be completely irrelevant in determining a betting range in this instance: your observation of this players tendencies is far more important. A passive 60/5 player may have just as narrow a vbetting range on the river as a 12/10 player, yet you'll see people justifying saying 'call hes a loose fish' and then 'fold hes a nit' because all they see is these two numbers and don't stop to think any further.

The brilliance of observing a players tendencies is it will tell you simultaneously whether they're loose or tight preflop, AND how they play post-flop. Focusing on looking at pfr and vpip stats is time consuming, taking maybe 1/2 second to comprehend. 1/2 second doesn't sound like much, but consider the average multitabler is hitting 900-1000 hands an hour or 1 hand every 3.5-4 seconds. When you factor in the time spent checking your cards and your position at the table and the size of your opponents stack and who has limped/raised who has folded etc...all these little things add up and take away from your ability to simply OBSERVE a player.

Finally, 18/12 on one villain doesn't mean they're the same as 18/12 on another. Villain A may be positionally unaware and play the same range of hands from every position. Villain B may be extremely positionally aware and play way tighter utg and loosen up a lot when playing in late position. Player A might play suited connectors in his raising range, whereas player B raises any ace but never suited connectors. Who knows? You won't know if you don't observe them. These are hypothetical situations but hopefully you're beginning to see the flaws of relying purely on a HUD, and how using simple observation is going to deliver you a lot more useful information and hence allow you to improve your game much more.

paging vital myth paging vital myth

actually wait no probably best i don't

On September 13 2009 10:53 TalentedTom wrote: Show nested quote + On September 13 2009 07:13 joLin wrote: if youre being unobservant and robotic while using a hud, its not the hud's fault. actually it probably is

no its probably too many tables + HUDs.... but even then, we have Nanonoko so its not an HUD problem, si a player problem

zzz a HUD just gives extra information and that can hardly be bad.

On September 15 2009 09:59 SakiSaki wrote: zzz a HUD just gives extra information and that can hardly be bad.

Weee this. But, seriously, I doubt you're going to find an incremental 3 BI of leaks by buying a hand database. There aren't enough regs that you play with constantly, and most people's leaks are pretty evident there IIRC.

I've said many times before and will repeat, people who need HUDs to win, are not poker players, simple as.

On September 15 2009 11:32 MayZerG wrote: I've said many times before and will repeat, people who need HUDs to win, are not poker players, simple as.

I think this is silly.

On September 15 2009 11:32 MayZerG wrote: I've said many times before and will repeat, people who need HUDs to win, are not poker players, simple as.

weee tunnel vision!

That's cheating, I wouldn't do it.

On September 15 2009 22:46 Jonoman92 wrote: That's cheating, I wouldn't do it.

so dataming for poker is like show me the money for SCB?

hahahaha I'm funny

lol well it's probably not quite as bad as using map hack but it's close!

On September 15 2009 11:32 MayZerG wrote: I've said many times before and will repeat, people who need HUDs to win, are not poker players, simple as.

OMG IM NOT A POKER PLAYER

you should buy as big a database as possible, it's really important to have 20k hand samples on someone who is 14/8

On September 17 2009 13:24 TalentedTom wrote: you should buy as big a database as possible, it's really important to have 20k hand samples on someone who is 14/8

so much this

On September 15 2009 11:32 MayZerG wrote: I've said many times before and will repeat, people who need HUDs to win, are not poker players, simple as.

dont you play 12+ tables? i cant imagine how it would ever hurt you to use a HUD.

On September 17 2009 13:24 TalentedTom wrote: you should buy as big a database as possible, it's really important to have 20k hand samples on someone who is 14/8

lol yeah, u wanna make sure if they 3bet preflop 2.5% or 3%