6-max adventure

Yeah def good observations, its pretty ridic how some ppl can just take a concept and fuck it up badly... postflop play is atrocious these days

the allin ev line isnt an allin only line
its the total winnings line adjusted at every point there was an allin to reflect the expected results
ie the EV-adjusted line is the approximation of what your total profit/loss should be in that session

so if you take the expected allin results you would have lost $800 total in the session, but you ran below expectations in those allins to the tune of $3200, giving you total -$4000

Everyone is definitely a cardrunners.com clone. Unfortunately, even if they are not smart in their moves, it really takes away your ability to profit (as opposed to them just playing a 25-2 style like they probably played before videos). Its much harder to play versus the reraises than vs the calls.

Its like the old starcraft days. You could see the general level of play rise drastically once replays were released. Prior to replays people would make units with no real clue as to why. They'd engage with no real reason why. Once replays came out they'd do boxer tank drops, fast expands, and other real strategies with no real reason why they were doing what they were doing. But sometimes you didn't need to know the reasoning/logic behind a play in order to do it well. You could do it mechanically.

Best bet is to separate the players who think and the players who win every single pot at all costs despite the reads they should receive from your play.

betfair games are ruined too... 6 months ago 50/1 and 1/2 were like walk in the park..sustaining 10bb+ winrate wasnt hard at all and now... all these swedish 16/14 13/11 19/14 etc dudes who dont do anything but 3 bet and squeez ..blah

On November 27 2008 12:41 Shabbzoy wrote: the allin ev line isnt an allin only line its the total winnings line adjusted at every point there was an allin to reflect the expected results ie the EV-adjusted line is the approximation of what your total profit/loss should be in that session so if you take the expected allin results you would have lost $800 total in the session, but you ran below expectations in those allins to the tune of $3200, giving you total -$4000

Oh I see, thats pretty clever

On November 27 2008 12:48 Maynard! wrote: Everyone is definitely a cardrunners.com clone. Unfortunately, even if they are not smart in their moves, it really takes away your ability to profit (as opposed to them just playing a 25-2 style like they probably played before videos). Its much harder to play versus the reraises than vs the calls. Its like the old starcraft days. You could see the general level of play rise drastically once replays were released. Prior to replays people would make units with no real clue as to why. They'd engage with no real reason why. Once replays came out they'd do boxer tank drops, fast expands, and other real strategies with no real reason why they were doing what they were doing. But sometimes you didn't need to know the reasoning/logic behind a play in order to do it well. You could do it mechanically. Best bet is to separate the players who think and the players who win every single pot at all costs despite the reads they should receive from your play.

I fully agree on all your points, good analogy sir!

400NL is like I've said before full of regulars who try to win every pot instead of making the correct decisions. You profit against them but it's just really annoying and stressful to play against those players.

this is why you just have to out think those CR clones, just like there was a way to be much better than most people at starcraft

hmm but how can you out think retarded spewmonkeys who 4bet/call from the co with K9s vs the button with what appears to be no history? when the environment gets so retardedly aggressive it seems like the only reasonable thing to do is nit it up. So many people are ridiculously paranoid vs total strangers that it makes me wonder if they are even capable of adjusting to nitty players

On November 27 2008 13:48 lebowski wrote: hmm but how can you out think retarded spewmonkeys who 4bet/call from the co with K9s vs the button with what appears to be no history? when the environment gets so retardedly aggressive it seems like the only reasonable thing to do is nit it up. So many people are ridiculously paranoid vs total strangers that it makes me wonder if they are even capable of adjusting to nitty players

When LeggoPoker started there was a nice video from Straate that showed quite well how to outhink and own midstakes aggrotards.

you answered your own question lebowski

the "flaw" of the allin EV in HEM if you will, is that it doesnt take into consideration of suckouts in non-allin spots. eg. you call two streets with top pair on a fd board and the guy rivers you and for w/e reason does not bet for value, it doesnt take those hands into consideration into the EV calculation

bottom line is though, all these EV things are just some validation to make you feel better when losing and stuff tbh. I mean I just finished a 9k difference session between winnings vs allin EV, but I'm sure if I reviewed some of my big hands, I can find plays that I made that are far from optimal

very interesting read =) I love the BW analogies cause it gives me hope that there's still a chance for us to pwn these aggrotards, heh.

I think in HEM you can use the filter to set something like "ALL IN = TRUE" and then it will only give AI pots.

I think that it is is very conforming thought that poker is evolving like starcraft in terms of skill. Because when I stopped sc a year ago there were still soo sooo many terrible users, even at relatively high ranks at ladders.

anyways I hope poker becomes mainstream trend in china and such because it clearly is easier to outplay WPT clones than cardrunners clones -_-

I <3 the hem allin ev line... it will keep bad/avg players thinking they are playing ok for a loong long time

On November 27 2008 15:34 Jamie217 wrote: I <3 the hem allin ev line... it will keep bad/avg players thinking they are playing ok for a loong long time

no kidding :D

You are soo right in your analysis! The preflop aggression is just mad, even at NL200. I just started to play NL400 and was so surprised when I got it AI pre vs a reg with ATo. Thought it wouldnt accour often but similar things has happened..
I think you hinted it but there is so much more more postflop play.. I love it (even if I have soo much too learn!)

On November 27 2008 13:15 SakiSaki wrote: Show nested quote + On November 27 2008 12:48 Maynard! wrote: Everyone is definitely a cardrunners.com clone. Unfortunately, even if they are not smart in their moves, it really takes away your ability to profit (as opposed to them just playing a 25-2 style like they probably played before videos). Its much harder to play versus the reraises than vs the calls. Its like the old starcraft days. You could see the general level of play rise drastically once replays were released. Prior to replays people would make units with no real clue as to why. They'd engage with no real reason why. Once replays came out they'd do boxer tank drops, fast expands, and other real strategies with no real reason why they were doing what they were doing. But sometimes you didn't need to know the reasoning/logic behind a play in order to do it well. You could do it mechanically. Best bet is to separate the players who think and the players who win every single pot at all costs despite the reads they should receive from your play. I fully agree on all your points, good analogy sir!

Except that when replays were released, the koreans were still playing atrocious because they were microing so hard to look like boxer, and lacking in everything else especially strategics points, moves, and more importantly macros.
Pretty sure most of you know what this atmosphere was (ie : flawless good boxer's drop execution but ridiculously bad macro with no clues about how to play when the drop fails).
Why wouldn't it be the case for poker aswell ? Way to outsmart them before they get better right ?

the hem all in line is fuckin bullshit... it makes good players like myself think im total dog shit and that im just running good all along!! (or am i good... answer that one HEM... )

why not cold call with 88+/AQ+ and push vs squuezer then ? Should show decent profit if they squueze as much as u say