GRAAH - Page 2

On March 08 2008 13:22 FrEaK[S.sIR] wrote: Show nested quote + On March 08 2008 13:20 Stygg wrote: overreaction of the century, Freak. here comes Saki posting an honest blog about a bad session and even admitting he made some mistakes and you bash him for supposedly whining about it. and wtf, we all brag about good sessions and whine sometimes about bad ones. Saki is hardly worse than anyone else when it comes to this, probably infact the opposite. if you're trying to help him you're really coming off as a gigantic douchebag and should maybe work on your ways of teaching a little your whole post, or posts, really sound like you think Saki is a bad player even with your disclaimer attempts. imo this is not true, I've seen plenty hands from him that leave me pretty impressed. there are better targets to pick if you want to flame without making it look like you're flaming Anything I said was hardly a flame? And little of my post is referring to this blog post by itself but towards his attitude as a whole. I made this abundantly clear in everything I said. The fact that you can't see this just shows that you aren't understanding anything that I'm saying.

no you really didn't make it abundantly clear. putting a one-liner disclaimer after ranting about how his mindset is wrong is a bit of a flaming in my book. i guess we don't relate to people in the same way. Sure enough I've seen some flaws in Saki's game but I could take a look at 20 different hands from almost all players on LP including myself, and see the same.

As for his supposed "attitude as a whole", I think his attitude is better than many others. Most people wouldn't even post a blog admitting they made some big mistakes that cost them the session. They would whine about running bad instead. imo your attitude as a whole is self righteous and that's much worse than anything I've seen Saki post. I still dont see why you picked him as your target, bad day or something?

I'm not talking about other people. I'm talking about him. I don't care what other people do or have to say. I care what saki does or has to say. It doesn't matter what other people do or don't do, that doesn't make what he says or is doing anymore right or wrong that it is. An admission to making mistakes doesn't make the mistakes that are being made somehow less mistakes than they are.

And one-liner disclaimer? It was bigger than one line, I made an effort to explain my point thoroughly and your refusal to see that is frustrating, to say the least.

I can't believe I let both of you get under my skin like this. Unless either of you are actually going to make an honest effort to comment on what I said as opposed to just making blanket statements, I don't think I'm going to respond anymore. You're both being completely unreasonable and unfair in your reactions.

I think I'm a very reasonable person. I also think you need to reread your first few posts and look at it as a whole and you will probably see how anyone will be prone to thinking it's a bit of a flame. your whole tone sounds like youre trying to teach The Correct Way Of Thinking.

but whatever, since you asked me to comment on what you actually said, I will.

The fact you called down light when he multi barrelled a few times and were right doesn't necessarily make those call downs good or his plays bad. It just means that in a vacuum, in those hands specifically, you happened to be right. That doesn't make your plays good or his plays bad. Thinking so just shows a complete lack of perspective.

So how exactly should one go about determining what is a good play and what isn't? And who are you to determine that his calldowns were bad when you havent even seen the hand or seen any part of the session? when you have absolutely no info on anything, you're forced to take the poster's, in this case Saki's, word for it.. but instead you point a finger saying no-no saki, dont celebrate yet cause your calldowns were probably not as good as you think they were. seriously who the fuck are you to determine that, lol

Your constantly posting in your blog about running good and bad and when you're whining and running bad I see a number of hands that you post that I don't think are really any good at all. Then when you're running good, I see the same thing, you just happen to be winning at the time.

Again this is hardly unique for Saki's blog. Infact I'll go so far as to say this is what 80% of LP's blogs consist of. Running good/running bad. Maybe you should start policing the blog section whenever you see this? You'll have a very busy life. As for his hands being "not really any good at all", I will leave that down to your opinion which you're entitled to. I don't agree, but that's neither here nor there

You just have to be honest with yourself and realistic. It's easy to justify everything by looking at it in a way that makes you feel better, that justifies your actions in a light that makes you see them how you want to. That doesn't make you good and that doesn't make it right.

imo Saki has posted many honest things on LP, both in posts and his blog. I think this comment is unnecessary, but again, we probably don't relate to other people the same way.


I cbf quoting anymore, and your second post after the long one is a little nicer/better. but please, be a little reasonable, reread your post after a while and understand that it's not completely unreasonable to be a little offended if you're in Saki's shoes. nothing in particular that you say is ultra offensive, but it's rather your whole tone. if you don't understand that and still think I'm being completely unreasonable then I guess we just shouldn't keep discussing and just agree to disagree or something

but whatever, since you asked me to comment on what you actually said, I will.

Thank you, I appreciate it.

So how exactly should one go about determining what is a good play and what isn't? And who are you to determine that his calldowns were bad when you havent even seen the hand or seen any part of the session? when you have absolutely no info on anything, you're forced to take the poster's, in this case Saki's, word for it.. but instead you point a finger saying no-no saki, dont celebrate yet cause your calldowns were probably not as good as you think they were. seriously who the fuck are you to determine that, lol

I never tried to say whether or not they were good or bad but simply that it's difficult to determine how good or bad they are because very few things are ever black and white in poker and that treating them as such is a poor way of thinking. I'm saying a lot of his plays may only be good or bad in a vacuum and treating them any differently isn't a correct way of viewing it. Just because a hand LOOKS good on the surface doesn't necessarily make it so. And again, I'm not determining anything, I'm not saying how good or bad anything is, I'm not quantifying anything. I'm saying things may not appear as they seem and that you should be more critical of the things you do instead of trying to see them in black and white, good or bad, right or wrong, but merely on the merit of the reasoning behind them.

Again this is hardly unique for Saki's blog. Infact I'll go so far as to say this is what 80% of LP's blogs consist of. Running good/running bad. Maybe you should start policing the blog section whenever you see this? You'll have a very busy life. As for his hands being "not really any good at all", I will leave that down to your opinion which you're entitled to. I don't agree, but that's neither here nor there

I don't care if it's unique of Saki's blog. The reason I took the time to say anything to saki to begin with is because I think he shows a lot of promise and I don't want to see him being held down by what I think is a poor outlook. Why would I waste my time commenting on a player who I thought was nothing? What reason would I have to do that? Just because? Or am I doing it because I want to see him move forward and not be held down by something as silly as what I think is a poor mindset and way of looking at things.

And I didn't say that his hands were "not really good at all". I said some of them were and that chalking those instances up to simply running bad shows a lack of perspective. Just because some hands are bad and some things are done poorly doesn't mean everything he does is bad. You need to be honest with yourself and realistic and try to view each instance as best as you can despite just how things turned out that time. Viewing things in a vacuum is a wrong way of going about it and that's what I'm saying.

Again, I never said he was bad. The fact I took the time to say anything at all makes it pretty clear that I think the exact opposite.

imo Saki has posted many honest things on LP, both in posts and his blog. I think this comment is unnecessary, but again, we probably don't relate to other people the same way.

I agree, he has said many honest things. He has done a lot of good for LP and there are a lot of really good things about him and him as a player. I never said otherwise. I'm saying some things need improvement and I said what they were and why I thought that was the case. What I said there was just showing what I thought he was doing when things weren't going his way and how that was bad. I can see how the last sentence could be misconstrued as being malicious and I could have used a better what of saying it but what I meant was "just because you're able to reason your way through something doesn't necessarily make what you did right or the best way of doing things and you should attempt to look at things as a whole rather than trying to come up for reasons for why they aren't all that bad. Being wrong or admitting fault isn't a bad thing and until you're able to see that I don't think you're going to reach your full potential". Or something to that effect.

And no, we probably don't realte to other people the same way. I don't care how what I say makes them feel but that I say what I think is the truth and that I make an effort to explain why I think that way. If there feelings get hurt by it, that's fine. And if they are going to think I'm a terrible human being for having said those things, that's fine too. At the very least I was honest and said what I thought needed to be said and if they don't like that, that's fine too. I'm not going to see eye to eye with everybody but at the very least I'm going to be honest and truthful about what I think. Some people are going to see my point and agree with me, and some aren't. It's how things are going to be.

I cbf quoting anymore, and your second post after the long one is a little nicer/better. but please, be a little reasonable, reread your post after a while and understand that it's not completely unreasonable to be a little offended if you're in Saki's shoes. nothing in particular that you say is ultra offensive, but it's rather your whole tone. if you don't understand that and still think I'm being completely unreasonable then I guess we just shouldn't keep discussing and just agree to disagree or something

I do see how he can be offended by what I said. I'm being very critical of him and that's not always easy to take. I don't think it's unreasonable that he was offended, I think it's unreasonable that he responded in a fashion that made it seem as if what I said had no merit and no place at all to be said and that I was just being malicious and mean when I really don't think that what I was being at all. I think I was just being honest and saying what I thought and why I thought it. I don't appreciate being laughed at or belittled just because I'm disagreed with. I showed respect by trying to be very clear in what I thought, and in some instances I failed, but for the most part I think I got my point across. I want the same respect in return and I think trying to put words in my mouth and treat me as if I'm just being malicious is stepping over a line. The fact I took the time at all goes a long way to show that I'm not just going out of my way to be mean and that I actually have good intent in what I'm saying and doing. It's not like I always go this far out of my way to make a point.



I know this was really long and if you actually read it I appreciate it. If you still don't agree with me and if we still don't see eye to eye I suppose we never will. But I think this last exchange went a lot further into both of us understanding where the other was coming from.

Sorry if I stirred up anything. I was just trying to help.

Allright I think I understand. I guess in a world that relies only on written words there will always be misunderstandings. I really felt like you were almost randomly abusing him for whatever reasons you could think of at the time. I will chalk this up to differences in communicating, I think I see your point now

I guess the problem I had was the "tough love" you were giving him, if it was infact so. I'm not a big fan of that way of teaching myself.. off the top of my head I can think of a few run-ins I've had with authoritative type of people who have tried to approach me that way in my life. but that's just me, I'm absolutely old enough to know that it's a valid way for people to learn and improve. whether it's Saki's preferred choice of learning I don't know seeing as how I don't know him at all. it seems it's not though judging by his response

anyway it's cool, and I guess you make a few good points as well. Our (yours and mine) big difference is how we communicate with people, but I'm totally ok with it now that you explained your intentions are good, let's just leave it be and move on, cheers

On March 08 2008 09:14 SakiSaki wrote: and these swings caused tilt which caused me to lose more.

HU in a nutshell