On August 03 2019 06:08 Baalim wrote:
You want comfort and models feeding you grapes but you don't want to work for it, no wonder you've become a leftist lol
I do want some comfort. Who doesn't? I like stretching out my legs on my Norwegian chair and reading or talking to people on the phone. Being fed grapes by Ms. Upton (who I think is a Mrs. now anyway) was a bit tongue in cheek. That's an ideal that people think they want but is not actual joy or satisfaction.
On August 03 2019 04:50 RiKD wrote:
If there really was a crisis this big, then we would rarely talk about anything else. As soon as you turned on the TV, almost everything would be about that: headlines, radio, newspaper. You would almost never hear about anything else. And the politicians would surely have done what was needed by now, wouldn't they? They would hold crisis meetings all the time, declare climate emergencies everywhere, and spend all their waking hours handling the situation and informing the people what was going on. But it never was like that. The climate crisis was just treated like any other issue or even less than that... And we must admit that we are losing this battle... Most of us don't know almost any of the basic facts, because how could we? We have not been told.
This is the biggest crisis humanity has ever faced. For too long, the people in power have gotten away with basically not doing anything to stop the climate and ecological breakdown. They have gotten away with stealing our future and selling it for profit. But we young people are waking up. And we promise, we will not let you get away with it anymore.
What about Rico guys? Has he figured it out? The happiest man on Earth isn't Mathieu Ricard it's an assembly line worker. Or, it's probably an aspie like Alex Honnold. Mountain climbers and poets. What about both at the same time! What happens when the laughter stops?
The fact that Baal sees no moral issue with owning people that are treated as "luxury goods" and instead is only bothered by whether or not someone has worked enough to be able to own them is why he is a right-winger.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On August 03 2019 06:08 Baalim wrote:
You want comfort and models feeding you grapes but you don't want to work for it, no wonder you've become a leftist lol
I do want some comfort. Who doesn't? I like stretching out my legs on my Norwegian chair and reading or talking to people on the phone. Being fed grapes by Ms. Upton (who I think is a Mrs. now anyway) was a bit tongue in cheek. That's an ideal that people think they want but is not actual joy or satisfaction.
I don't know why you say 'people' when you clearly mean you. I have never fantasized about being fed grapes or being surrounded by super models. No one that has seemingly accomplished much in life has had that for an ideal either.
This is the joy that I aspire to. What the singer is expressing at the end of this clip. It takes a lot of hard work to get there. To be able to experience this kind of joy. It's the kind of joy that Baal is barred from experiencing, because he doesn't know what a real and honest labor of love is.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
Your Rico thing is quite concerning to me. Did you make that story up? How can you possibly be naive enough to think that the happiest man in the world is someone who spends his entire days working a mind-numbing job for scraps?
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
It's the Olympic games for Rico. Slowing down would be the difficult thing. He is in a flow state everyday, all day.
I didn't make it up. It was from an interview conducted with Rico in the book Flow. I thought it was a bit dystopian but I could relate with flow states at work and I think I was hoping it to be true. That work could be better based on my consciousness and I just need to turn making pizzas into my Olympic games. That just sounds like the epitome of being an achievement-subject though. It is one thing to climb El Capitan with out ropes for the sake of doing it and another to be a cog in a wheel for profit. I don't know if Emily Dickinson was a happy person but I'm sure she was living beautifully when she was up in her room writing her poems. And, of course the monks who meditate for all hours of the day are in a constant flow state as well.
On August 03 2019 06:08 Baalim wrote:
You want comfort and models feeding you grapes but you don't want to work for it, no wonder you've become a leftist lol
I do want some comfort. Who doesn't? I like stretching out my legs on my Norwegian chair and reading or talking to people on the phone. Being fed grapes by Ms. Upton (who I think is a Mrs. now anyway) was a bit tongue in cheek. That's an ideal that people think they want but is not actual joy or satisfaction.
I don't know why you say 'people' when you clearly mean you. I have never fantasized about being fed grapes or being surrounded by super models. No one that has seemingly accomplished much in life has had that for an ideal either.
This is the joy that I aspire to. What the singer is expressing at the end of this clip. It takes a lot of hard work to get there. To be able to experience this kind of joy. It's the kind of joy that Baal is barred from experiencing, because he doesn't know what a real and honest labor of love is.
*Note: See the IDLES live
I don't think those fantasies are isolated to just me. I've seen them used as examples in the past by other people. Not that it matters. These were things I thought about in the past and thankfully I see them in a different light today. Being fed grapes is flat out tyranny.
One could say that Leonardo Dicaprio is surrounded by supermodels and has a lot of "accomplishments." It's all how you define the words and it's all relative. Beyond his body of work in film he has the whole climate change thing going for him too. I don't know if it was Leo's ideal to be surrounded by supermodels. It very well may just be the person that he is attracts that. Probably a little of both.
Of course, who wouldn't want to be a punk rock singer performing at Glastonbury? But, it's not realistic. At least for me. What is the best I can hope for? A stimulating conversation where I come upon some thought that is exciting or funny or soul touching. A particularly inspired painting. I can't sing very well, I can't play any instruments, I'm not writing any great works in any field including literature, etc. That is why I'm hoping to find my stride in activism or anything really. Mountain climbing, motorcycle riding, boat racing, anything that can get me that elusive flow state. But, I don't want to forget about the people. The oppressed and the marginalized. That is perhaps the most important project on the planet as well as the climate emergency. The key is finding my own IDLES at Glastonbury moments but never forget there are people struggling too. I liked how the singer was beating his chest. It reminded me of Dr. Cornel West saying Coltrane one time just started beating his chest because the saxophone couldn't express himself well enough. Think of all the practice sessions that went into that performance. Some great some not so great. All of the trials and tribulations. God, I love live music especially punk music.
On August 03 2019 22:13 Loco wrote:
The fact that Baal sees no moral issue with owning people that are treated as "luxury goods" and instead is only bothered by whether or not someone has worked enough to be able to own them is why he is a right-winger.
You don't own people who willinigly provide a service they are paid for, but sure you can be an asshole about it, but its Rick the one dreaming about lavish romanesque services, not me.
On August 03 2019 06:08 Baalim wrote:
You want comfort and models feeding you grapes but you don't want to work for it, no wonder you've become a leftist lol
I do want some comfort. Who doesn't? I like stretching out my legs on my Norwegian chair and reading or talking to people on the phone. Being fed grapes by Ms. Upton (who I think is a Mrs. now anyway) was a bit tongue in cheek. That's an ideal that people think they want but is not actual joy or satisfaction.
I don't dream about such things at all and I'm not being sanctimonious about it, the idea of a Dan Bilzerian type of life doesn't appeal to me at all, after the third gangbang I would hate it all and feel like choking some annoying hoes lol, when I try to picture pure bliss driving fast in a twisty road always come to mind.
It's quite cliché but I feel you really haven't found what you are passionate about or don't know how to properly savor the bliss of doing them, perhaps painting and making pizzas could be much more enjoyable but your neurosis doesn't allow you to.
On August 03 2019 22:13 Loco wrote:
The fact that Baal sees no moral issue with owning people that are treated as "luxury goods" and instead is only bothered by whether or not someone has worked enough to be able to own them is why he is a right-winger.
You don't own people who willinigly provide a service they are paid for, but sure you can be an asshole about it, but its Rick the one dreaming about lavish romanesque services, not me.
Yes, you do under the current system. Voluntary employment is an illusion, because one must be employed somewhere to live. People are temporarily owned and that is all that's different. And you can argue that's a bigger problem because of all the stress that is incurred from being between jobs or not finding work. At least some of the slaves who were bought had the "peace of mind" of having a stable home and source of food if they had a "good master" and they did not have to market themselves in order to have a chance to survive.
If there was a no-questions asked UBI for everyone, then that would be different. I believe any version of UBI that has a chance of being implemented in current society is going to be dystopic though, and I think landlords would automatically seek to profit from it as much as they can, but you could make the argument that if people could still survive, then it is voluntary to be engaged in wage labor. It's still a problematic argument because no one just wants to survive, they want to be able to live, so unless that amount of money is to be significant enough, which we know can't happen under capitalism, it's not truly voluntary.
"The only difference as compared with the old, outspoken slavery is this, that the worker of today seems to be free because he is not sold once for all, but piece meal by the day, the week, the year, and because no one owner sells him to another, but he is forced to sell himself in this way instead, being the slave of no particular person, but of the whole property-holding class." - Engels
You have a carceral system in the US that is completely consistent with your ethics of profit and ownership where black people are owned to do labor at a rate of $1 an hour. And it's not 'unskilled' labor either; it includes fighting active fires (of which the increased incidences of has been caused by business and the dominant class). That is still "voluntary" according to you "voluntaryst" dipshits. They are "willing" to choose to make $1 an hour doing dangerous labor when they could choose not to. You would have been one of the last people opposing the old type of slavery when it was supported by the status quo.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
Last edit: 04/08/2019 18:09
1
Santafairy Korea (South). Aug 04 2019 18:12. Posts 2226
I missed a step or you went from ownership of instagram bimbos to prison labor?
capitalism didn't make it so you can't live without doing shit
god did that, nature did that
you want to talk about $1 talk about the $1 loaf of bread capitalism gave you at every supermarket. or the $1 cheeseburger at mcdonalds.
so intentionally naive
It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen
On August 03 2019 06:08 Baalim wrote:
You want comfort and models feeding you grapes but you don't want to work for it, no wonder you've become a leftist lol
I do want some comfort. Who doesn't? I like stretching out my legs on my Norwegian chair and reading or talking to people on the phone. Being fed grapes by Ms. Upton (who I think is a Mrs. now anyway) was a bit tongue in cheek. That's an ideal that people think they want but is not actual joy or satisfaction.
I don't know why you say 'people' when you clearly mean you. I have never fantasized about being fed grapes or being surrounded by super models. No one that has seemingly accomplished much in life has had that for an ideal either.
This is the joy that I aspire to. What the singer is expressing at the end of this clip. It takes a lot of hard work to get there. To be able to experience this kind of joy. It's the kind of joy that Baal is barred from experiencing, because he doesn't know what a real and honest labor of love is.
*Note: See the IDLES live
I don't think those fantasies are isolated to just me. I've seen them used as examples in the past by other people. Not that it matters. These were things I thought about in the past and thankfully I see them in a different light today. Being fed grapes is flat out tyranny.
One could say that Leonardo Dicaprio is surrounded by supermodels and has a lot of "accomplishments." It's all how you define the words and it's all relative. Beyond his body of work in film he has the whole climate change thing going for him too. I don't know if it was Leo's ideal to be surrounded by supermodels. It very well may just be the person that he is attracts that. Probably a little of both.
Of course, who wouldn't want to be a punk rock singer performing at Glastonbury? But, it's not realistic. At least for me. What is the best I can hope for? A stimulating conversation where I come upon some thought that is exciting or funny or soul touching. A particularly inspired painting. I can't sing very well, I can't play any instruments, I'm not writing any great works in any field including literature, etc. That is why I'm hoping to find my stride in activism or anything really. Mountain climbing, motorcycle riding, boat racing, anything that can get me that elusive flow state. But, I don't want to forget about the people. The oppressed and the marginalized. That is perhaps the most important project on the planet as well as the climate emergency. The key is finding my own IDLES at Glastonbury moments but never forget there are people struggling too. I liked how the singer was beating his chest. It reminded me of Dr. Cornel West saying Coltrane one time just started beating his chest because the saxophone couldn't express himself well enough. Think of all the practice sessions that went into that performance. Some great some not so great. All of the trials and tribulations. God, I love live music especially punk music.
Those fantasies are part of Capital's colonization of the mind. So is the admiration for people like DiCaprio, who is obviously an hypocrite who doesn't deserve a fraction of the wealth he's hoarding, despite his very real talents. Celebrities are not happier because they have money and status, that's why so many of them kill themselves, and the worst trainwrecks are always those who become famous very early before they could develop a solid identity.
It's not about being a post-punk singer or anything else specific. It's just about putting effort into something that isn't mere pleasure from consumption. Working on a labor of love. Working on establishing meaningful relationships with people who believe in solidarity. The 'flow state' doesn't matter, it's likely just going to turn into another high to chase for you. What is at the center of what poisons your life is a lack of camaraderie and purposefulness, not a lack of flow. You know what you have to do in order to try to solve this, you're just not doing it.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
On August 04 2019 17:12 Santafairy wrote:
I missed a step or you went from ownership of instagram bimbos to prison labor?
capitalism didn't make it so you can't live without doing shit
god did that, nature did that
you want to talk about $1 talk about the $1 loaf of bread capitalism gave you at every supermarket. or the $1 cheeseburger at mcdonalds.
so intentionally naive
It's the same thing, only the amount of money is changing. Both enter into a "voluntary transaction" with the person who provides them the money. When you use a supermodel it's easier to think that there is nothing wrong with it because they earn a lot of money, but when you use a poor person in prison who ends up being restricted to a $1 or $2 job, it's easy to see the flaw in this type of argument, as long as you are not a sociopath.
God/Nature didn't create money. Money is a relatively new thing in human history. Money of exchange (such as it exists under capitalism) rather than money of account (like in gift societies) especially is very recent.
Capitalism doesn't create cheap food, it takes the surplus value out of the people who create the food which could be made even cheaper by co-operatives or entirely free in a different economy. If you look at Venezuela and their "humanitarian crisis", the cheapest bread you could find in the whole of the country was made by an autonomous co-op. The capitalists fought to shut them down. Cheeseburgers are only cheap because the state subsidizes them and the true cost of its true production costs are externalized (which means that it's unsustainable).
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
Last edit: 04/08/2019 18:51
1
Santafairy Korea (South). Aug 04 2019 19:33. Posts 2226
Yeah if I grow wheat and mill it and bake bread and just give you a piece it's free
Good luck scaling that to also having hospitals and computers and an internet for you to proselytize from
Prisons are not an invention or staple of capitalism you can enslave criminals with no care given to economics
What's this about cheeseburgers? State shouldn't subsidize farms so people can eat meat but it should subsidize breathing? With UBI?
It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen
On August 04 2019 17:12 Santafairy wrote:
I missed a step or you went from ownership of instagram bimbos to prison labor?
capitalism didn't make it so you can't live without doing shit
god did that, nature did that
you want to talk about $1 talk about the $1 loaf of bread capitalism gave you at every supermarket. or the $1 cheeseburger at mcdonalds.
so intentionally naive
It's the same thing, only the amount of money is changing. Both enter into a "voluntary transaction" with the person who provides them the money. When you use a supermodel it's easier to think that there is nothing wrong with it because they earn a lot of money, but when you use a poor person in prison who ends up being restricted to a $1 or $2 job, it's easy to see the flaw in this type of argument, as long as you are not a sociopath.
God/Nature didn't create money. Money is a relatively new thing in human history. Money of exchange (such as it exists under capitalism) rather than money of account (like in gift societies) especially is very recent.
Capitalism doesn't create cheap food, it takes the surplus value out of the people who create the food which could be made even cheaper by co-operatives or entirely free in a different economy. If you look at Venezuela and their "humanitarian crisis", the cheapest bread you could find in the whole of the country was made by an autonomous co-op. The capitalists fought to shut them down. Cheeseburgers are only cheap because the state subsidizes them and the true cost of its true production costs are externalized (which means that it's unsustainable).
That group cannot serve as example for anything as it's supported by Maduro - aka subsidized. As soon as I heard she complaining of people who didn't support chavez but were eating "chavist bread" in a "chavist box" (CLAP boxes) I knew it.
Btw capitalists weren't trying to "shut it down". They wanted to reclaim the bakery. It was owned by a group before it was occupied by this colectivo which received support from Maduro.
It goes without saying that there is a class war going on in Venezuela. The way you see the problem depends on which class you are a part of. If you are a capitalist, then you see them as having stolen the bakery. If you are a poor, working-class Venezuelan, and the capitalists were hoarding 190 bags of flour during a time of food scarcity and saying they had none, then you see taking the bakery from them as a necessary public good. In any moral system, private ownership for the benefit of the few should not trump the needs of the many.
It is only fair that people who want to be owned by capitalists that they go and be fed by them instead. If you want to understand why they do this, you have to understand who the opposition is, and what the ideology of the opposition did to Venezuela before Chavez. These people don't want another Caracazo. Do you blame them? They are willing to work with Maduro's government despite its incompetence because it's the best option they have. The communes is all they have. Becoming a colony of the US is not a better option. But that's exactly what will happen if they let capitalists dominate the Venezuelan economy without interference. The Chavistas aren't the only ones who are politicizing the food, the capitalists have been hoarding food, medicine and household goods for a long time. They want to bring the most vulnerable people to their knees and force them to vote against Maduro and give away their social security and the sovereignty of their nation.
If you think that these working-class people are the real thieves in Venezuela, I have bad news for you. Guaido's gang has been exposed for massive fraud recently. Nothing too surprising if you know a thing or two about the Venezuelan neoliberal opposition.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
Well in one thing we will agree: the venezuelan opposition is disgusting and that's why I think venezuela is hopeless.
It is only fair that people who want to be owned by capitalists that they go and be fed by them instead.
Yea, right. Who is insane enough to keep a business running in a country which government shows no respect whatsoever for private property and regulates prices? Chavez's and Maduro's way of running the economy and expropriating property at will ruined venezuela.
I am having a bit of trouble sleeping for now so I figure I'll get up and do something. An acquaintance at work was found dead in the bathroom the other day. I didn't pry today but I did find out who it was. I don't know the circumstances. I would give him rides home and I would say we were more than just acquaintances. At this moment I don't really know what to think of it other than that it is bothering me. However it happened it's a tragic event and I think I am still trying to process it. It doesn't help that work is giving me more and more to do in less and less time and I just have to soldier through it.
I don't idolize celebrities. I used to. Nowadays, I idolize people like Anton Chekhov. Read about him. He is an amazing person. Not only was he perhaps the best short story writer ever he treated ~1,000 peasants a year gratis at his home and built schools for peasants, etc. Tolstoy is another example. Martin Luther King, Jr. Etc.
I may be back tonight. I hope I am not. I have to figure out a way to get closer to the Chekhovs, Tolstoys, and Kings of the world than the ever increasing workload that I face in the name of profit. The thing is they are cutting so much labor they might be losing profit. I am just stuck in the middle hoping I get some flow states to make it bearable.
On August 05 2019 02:44 Raidern wrote:
Well in one thing we will agree: the venezuelan opposition is disgusting and that's why I think venezuela is hopeless.
It is only fair that people who want to be owned by capitalists that they go and be fed by them instead.
Yea, right. Who is insane enough to keep a business running in a country which government shows no respect whatsoever for private property and regulates prices? Chavez's and Maduro's way of running the economy and expropriating property at will ruined venezuela.
I don't speak Spanish so I'm not sure what is said in that clip. There are plenty of businesses in Venezuela. Most of the economy is still private as far as I know.
It's a complicated issue. I'm not saying expropriation is always right. Ideally I am for workplace democracy, not expropriating workers and replacing them with people who don't know what they are doing. As far as I know those people in the bakery know what they are doing, and they are feeding many more people than the capitalists were. At the end of the day that's all I really care about.
I don't believe in respect for private property on any sort of philosophical ground. I also don't believe price controls an issue per se, but it causes a problem when there is a thriving black market, speculation and foreign meddling in your economy. Especially when you're a petrostate. The Saudis and the US have a lot to do with the dire situation in Venezuela, not just Maduro and Chavez.
fuck I should just sell some of my Pokemon cards, if no one stakes that is what I will have to do - lostaccount
United States. Aug 03 2019 18:35. Posts 8535
