Setting a trap with Kings gone wrong - Page 2

On May 18 2016 08:32 Baalim wrote: if he is raicing ATC why is he flat calling KK oop... .

this doesnt make any sense
if kanit is raising any2 when the SB limps, SB needs to put some strong hands in the limping range to protect it
apparently that's what the SB did and he probably knew that kanit was a monkey spewtard and adjusted correctly, since he got a raise from a really shitty hand

On May 21 2016 16:33 drone666 wrote: Show nested quote + On May 18 2016 08:32 Baalim wrote: if he is raicing ATC why is he flat calling KK oop... . this doesnt make any sense if kanit is raising any2 when the SB limps, SB needs to put some strong hands in the limping range to protect it apparently that's what the SB did and he probably knew that kanit was a monkey spewtard and adjusted correctly, since he got a raise from a really shitty hand

The way to punish someone raising ATC is not to call OOP, is to limp/raising them very wide, so no, he didnt adjust well.

On May 20 2016 15:17 ToT)MidiaN( wrote: Don't think Kanit played it poorly postflop on any street. Given pot to stack ratio, if he bet flop it'd be mad ugly if he got jammed on and that prob happens quite a lot, don't mind taking free card at all. Turn, same again + showdown value, and river is obv standard. Pre was obv bad as a standard. How is he supposed to barrel off postflop anyway, bet 25% pot each street? If he bets like 40% pot on flop there's <1 pot to stack ratio left on the turn. I don't necessarily agree with the whole "if you have no showdown value you must cbet" mentality so many seem to have these days anyway, you end up with only showdownable hands on turn which villains can exploit by underbluffing turns and overbluff check raising flops against your flop range which is overall too weak

I'm not subscribing to the idea of "if you have no showdown you must cbet".

What I am subscribing to is bluffing with a hand that contains a blocker to the nuts and is very near the bottom of our range in a given spot

On May 20 2016 05:24 Baalim wrote: you limp 3 bet.. if you think his hand is tramparent, then you limp 3Bet shit hands and force him to fold. The fact that villian didnt barrel off with no showdownable hand on the flop and turns shows that the play with KK is awful

I still can't quite get this line of thought.

I'm not saying I think the limp/call is a fantastic way to play the hand pre or the way I would've played it but I'm just saying it's not bad. And I have a hard time understanding how we correlate our opponents post flop play in this one particular hand to whether the pre flop play is good or not. I just think it's being results oriented.

In some other random universe, where BB just barrels it off on a different board the pre flop play looks great and maybe we wouldn't be having these discussions

Haha the SB tried so hard to get a check/raise on the flop and again on the turn, backfired perfectly. The BB played his hand great, you can't really bet that flop as any draw or pair would shove on you with those stack sizes, especially if you are seing as an aggro monkey.

On May 25 2016 20:02 TimDawg wrote: Show nested quote + On May 20 2016 05:24 Baalim wrote: you limp 3 bet.. if you think his hand is tramparent, then you limp 3Bet shit hands and force him to fold. The fact that villian didnt barrel off with no showdownable hand on the flop and turns shows that the play with KK is awful I still can't quite get this line of thought. I'm not saying I think the limp/call is a fantastic way to play the hand pre or the way I would've played it but I'm just saying it's not bad. And I have a hard time understanding how we correlate our opponents post flop play in this one particular hand to whether the pre flop play is good or not. I just think it's being results oriented. In some other random universe, where BB just barrels it off on a different board the pre flop play looks great and maybe we wouldn't be having these discussions

in an alternate universe where opponent barrels well if you have guaranteed a barrel off then ofcourse flat calling has better merits, but he didnt with a very cbettable hand which means his flat pre is simply bad.

the way to punish a guy raising with 92o IP is to CR him very light

On May 25 2016 19:52 TimDawg wrote: Show nested quote + On May 20 2016 15:17 ToT)MidiaN( wrote: Don't think Kanit played it poorly postflop on any street. Given pot to stack ratio, if he bet flop it'd be mad ugly if he got jammed on and that prob happens quite a lot, don't mind taking free card at all. Turn, same again + showdown value, and river is obv standard. Pre was obv bad as a standard. How is he supposed to barrel off postflop anyway, bet 25% pot each street? If he bets like 40% pot on flop there's <1 pot to stack ratio left on the turn. I don't necessarily agree with the whole "if you have no showdown value you must cbet" mentality so many seem to have these days anyway, you end up with only showdownable hands on turn which villains can exploit by underbluffing turns and overbluff check raising flops against your flop range which is overall too weak I'm not subscribing to the idea of "if you have no showdown you must cbet". What I am subscribing to is bluffing with a hand that contains a blocker to the nuts and is very near the bottom of our range in a given spot

Don't think blocking the nuts is very relevant at all with a pot to stack ratio of roughly 2. Villain is going to see K5 type hands as the nuts (Might have remembered board incorrectly, iirc it was 875?). imo it's a lot more important to realise the equity of the hand than attempt to bluff opponent off of random K/Q/J high hands on flop. I think a ton of villains range is going to have gutshot or better, pair or better on this board texture and it's jamming often, taking us off our equity in a spot where we often have 7 outs. Fold equity is low in the first place, he's likely not got that many high card hands that completely whiff as many of them would limp/jam pre or open raise/open jam. Plus, there's nothing to stop us delayed bluffing on some runouts, we don't have to bluff flop to successfully bluff at some point in the hand.

In any case, I'm not saying a bet is bad, just thought it was harsh how you said he's clueless and is clicking buttons when I think his play postflop makes 100% perfect sense

On May 25 2016 08:14 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On May 21 2016 16:33 drone666 wrote:   On May 18 2016 08:32 Baalim wrote: if he is raicing ATC why is he flat calling KK oop... . this doesnt make any sense if kanit is raising any2 when the SB limps, SB needs to put some strong hands in the limping range to protect it apparently that's what the SB did and he probably knew that kanit was a monkey spewtard and adjusted correctly, since he got a raise from a really shitty hand The way to punish someone raising ATC is not to call OOP, is to limp/raising them very wide, so no, he didnt adjust well.

lol no, play some spin and go's where the stack sizes are similar and you get a lot of these situations
limp/3bet KK would be awful vs someone raising any 2 cards

you still get limp/shove hands but it should contain hands like 55 or K7o