Setting a trap with Kings gone wrong

Not sure what Greenwood actually tried to do there. Perhaps he expected Kanit to raise him preflop or on the flop... Still, wouldn't he have to bet the turn?

lol tournament players, wtf is 92o raising there and if he is raicing ATC why is he flat calling KK oop... he set the trap and instead of closing it he lets him get 5 cards for free, good job.

Indeed. I think Greenwood fell into his own trap. Too bad.

This is why limping with big pairs is so hard to play. Once you limp reraise it gives your hand away which is why he flatted. 92 was trying to steal obv. Only way he could have gotten away is to repop pre. Sounds like bb was a maniac tho and he wanted him to barrell off

As played the 92 had position and with that run out on the board he wasnt going anywhere. Lesson learned dont limp oop with your big pairs.

kanit considered top5 among tourney donks right now. maybe 1

Actually I think Greenwood played the hand OK

The other guy in the hand is a complete monkey though and his play on every single street is awful

On May 18 2016 19:16 TimDawg wrote: Actually I think Greenwood played the hand OK The other guy in the hand is a complete monkey though and his play on every single street is awful

Whats the reasoning behind it being a good play?

On May 18 2016 19:16 TimDawg wrote: Actually I think Greenwood played the hand OK The other guy in the hand is a complete monkey though and his play on every single street is awful

Kanit's turn check is at least ok, river stndrd. So u mean pre and flop? Greenwood may be jamming pre in that spot a decent amount and so his raise may get enough folds vs a very polarized range to be +ev in and of itself. On flop he may just not want to get knocked off his equity on a board that is obviously favorable to Greenwood. He probably just check a lot there regardless of his hand

On May 19 2016 15:55 uiCk wrote: Show nested quote + On May 18 2016 19:16 TimDawg wrote: Actually I think Greenwood played the hand OK The other guy in the hand is a complete monkey though and his play on every single street is awful Whats the reasoning behind it being a good play?

What makes it OK is the fact that the BB is a batshit crazy monkey that is liable to raise a trash hand and barrell off

On May 19 2016 17:43 traxamillion wrote: Show nested quote + On May 18 2016 19:16 TimDawg wrote: Actually I think Greenwood played the hand OK The other guy in the hand is a complete monkey though and his play on every single street is awful Kanit's turn check is at least ok, river stndrd. So u mean pre and flop? Greenwood may be jamming pre in that spot a decent amount and so his raise may get enough folds vs a very polarized range to be +ev in and of itself. On flop he may just not want to get knocked off his equity on a board that is obviously favorable to Greenwood. He probably just check a lot there regardless of his hand

Yeah i agree on the turn, it's ok. But just based on his flop play, it just appears to me that he is just clicking buttons everywhere and has no legitimate reasons for doing what he is doing. I've played with Greenwood live before and watched some of his vids on RIO. I don't think this is a spot where he is limp/folding much of anything. There just isn't a defense you can come up in this particular scenario for raising an absolute shit hand like 92o

Also, I fail to see how this board connects better with Greenwood's range than the BB's. What are we assuming Greenwood's limp/calling here? All the sets seem unlikely. Maybe you can give him some SC's/suited one gapper type stuff but that seems a bit unlikely as well. The guy in BB is raising 92o! So he is basically totally uncapped in this spot, right? He has a great flop to start barreling off on, especially with his 9 blocker and chooses to check. This is just pure button clicking.

I'm not disagreeing with u just hypothesizing why he might be doing it (if he's thinking about it. This guy is supposed to be pretty sick good so hard to imagine him straight clicking. But tourneys could be)

On May 19 2016 23:28 traxamillion wrote: I'm not disagreeing with u just hypothesizing why he might be doing it (if he's thinking about it. This guy is supposed to be pretty sick good so hard to imagine him straight clicking. But tourneys could be)

ok, i gotcha

and sick...because he's won a lot of tournaments.... ?

you limp 3 bet.. if you think his hand is tramparent, then you limp 3Bet shit hands and force him to fold.

The fact that villian didnt barrel off with no showdownable hand on the flop and turns shows that the play with KK is awful

I don't really see the point of continuing to slow play with KK after that flop, at that point I would just start betting.

Don't think Kanit played it poorly postflop on any street. Given pot to stack ratio, if he bet flop it'd be mad ugly if he got jammed on and that prob happens quite a lot, don't mind taking free card at all. Turn, same again + showdown value, and river is obv standard. Pre was obv bad as a standard. How is he supposed to barrel off postflop anyway, bet 25% pot each street? If he bets like 40% pot on flop there's <1 pot to stack ratio left on the turn. I don't necessarily agree with the whole "if you have no showdown value you must cbet" mentality so many seem to have these days anyway, you end up with only showdownable hands on turn which villains can exploit by underbluffing turns and overbluff check raising flops against your flop range which is overall too weak

if that was referred to me I didnt say that his check with non showdownable value hand is awful, I said the fact that he didnt makes the play with KK even more awful.

Nah, I got what you were saying. More a disagreement with TimDawg's views on postflop. I obv agree Kanit's pf play is bad and I didn't even say anything about Greenwood's play, so no argument there. I don't have a problem with anyone disagreeing with Kanit's flop play, I think it's fine either way, but stating his play is flat out awful on every street and he's clicking buttons postflop when he's very successful and clearly knows what he's doing seems a bit ridiculous to me. I don't see an issue with any street played postflop anyway, think it's harsh to suggest he played it that bad. Each to their own anyway, just staying my opinion and why I think the postflop play by Kanit was perfectly reasonable

On May 20 2016 08:55 Zendi wrote: I don't really see the point of continuing to slow play with KK after that flop, at that point I would just start betting.

The idea was to induce a delayed cbet. I'm not saying I love Greenwood's play, because I don't, but I think people tend to be so results oriented when someone tries something unorthodox and it backfires. Nobody would have said a word if Kanit had checked back flop with QTo and bet turn. The commentators are the same, they'd prob be praising his genius play and how he got max value. It's quite annoying really, but I suppose to the uneducated crowd that kind of commentary appeals to them rather than having the big picture analysed deeply in every spot so I can understand it. Prob wouldn't have Poker on TV at all if some boring anal cunt like me was commentating ;D

Also, although I definitely do not like Kanit's preflop play, he's not retarded so there has to be some thought process. Things he could be thinking about include a) Because of Greenwood's stacksize, he might assume he is seldom limp/calling and that he's either limp/jamming, or limp/folding. With this stack size, the limp call does look quite trappy, in a spot where he'd just be limp/jamming a lot of stuff. This could add extra reasoning for Kanit's flop play, if he senses the limp/call is often a trap b) Playability of 92o blows so he doesn't care if he gets jammed on with it and if he assumes Greenwood isn't calling much, the value of his hand doesn't even matter a great deal if he's not playing postflop with it much c) The graphic doesn't show all the stack sizes and I can't be arsed to rewatch the video, but it's a final table so ICM comes into it. Kanit covers by a lot so Greenwood knows Kanit will be getting it in a lot vs him and Greenwood's tournament life is at stake. As a result, Greenwood is meant to get it in less often than he would if it was winner takes all or any other situation where ICM is irrelevant - presumably increasing Kanit's pf fold equity

I think Kanit's preflop play is somewhat defensible, but still not good. Greenwood probably thought most if not all of this at the time and recognised it'd be a spot Kanit would be putting pressure on him a lot so got greedy and tried to induce further. Still, think the flat is somewhat transparent and Kanit read it and adjusted well postflop.