Live at the Bike – poker community angry with angle shootiing from one of the players!

A few times per week Twitch viewers can watch Live at the Bike. This is an interesting cash game from The Bike Casino in Los Angeles. One of the recent hands there made poker community outrageous.

Cash games known as “Live at the Bike” always attract plenty of fans as it is not easy to get a streamed high stakes games these days.

If you joined the stream a few days ago you might have seen an unusual hand during Live at the Bike. It was a $25/50 game, participated by Garrett Adelstein, Art Papazyan, “Armenian Mike” and Ryan Feldman, who usually observes the show from a commentary booth.

The hand went on normally and with 74KT board there was just $900 in the pot. Feldman bet the turn $300. He was called and the river was K. After that things got a bit crazy. “Armenian Mike” moved all-in for $10,300!

Feldman insta-called! The pot was suddenyl $21,500. “Armenian Mike” showed just AQ, and Feldman full house with K7. Feldman's opponent moved back his chips and said it was just a stupid joke. Poker players argued for a few minutes afterwards.

You can watch the hand and the commentary from Joeingram1 here:


The whole thing is quite weird as the floorman made a bizzare decision. He left it up to Feldman to decide, if his opponent moved all-in or if he can take the chips back. Finally the chips went to Feldman, and tilted amateur quit the game.

The video was posted on Twitter by infuriated Joe Ingram, who called it the worst “angle shooting” he has ever seen. Many similar commenst followed. Dan Fleyshman argues there can be only one right decision here.
– This film is 7.5 minutes too long. Mike was not even holding his hand on the chips and when he moved in he moved the rack even further. Floorman should not have even approached them as the bet was no joke.

Many people agreed that the floorman was not fair for putting the decision on Ryan as he was a player not a manager there to decided what is right and what is wrong.
– Ryan should not have been made to make this decision – writes Danielle Andersen.

A few tournament directors and floormen also stated their opinions on Twitter. Justin Kuraitis from Stones Gambling said that this was no angle shoot, but cheating attempt. Additionally it was floorman's responsibility to rule it all out.

Even stronger comment can be heard from Sean McCormack, who works for Aria.
– Three conclusions here. Floorman must make the decision. Player is a third party. Mike, take off the Aria cap. Mike, if you ever come to Las Vegas, remember that you are not welcome in Aria. We need to oppose angle shooting more so situations like this one do not repeat – argues McCormack.

good old all-in get called... i was kidding

lol

wtf the superfish just tried to take his chips back whats the big deal, this happens all the time. the floor is obv dumb but the floor always makes the ppl pay, even in china. no way joe actually thinks this is the biggest angle shoot of all time, hes just trying to slam out more content.

if i wanted fish and chips like this i would eat fast food in england

wasn't the first time he did that though, people folded previously to his random jam like that, clearly he was angling

On June 12 2018 02:53 FrinkX wrote: wtf the superfish just tried to take his chips back whats the big deal, this happens all the time. the floor is obv dumb but the floor always makes the ppl pay, even in china. no way joe actually thinks this is the biggest angle shoot of all time, hes just trying to slam out more content.

sensationalistic youtube video title? no way!

shit like this made me quit live poker, then black friday hit so gg poker life lol

As for the all-in, his hand was no longer on the chips/holder so it's gg 10k everywhere i played. he verbalized "allin" then released his hand off the chips no question thats a legit bet. why is this even an issue? Ryan being the producer of the show probably made the floor think he should decide which is stupid. Where i played before similar shit happens all the time and if that is the worst angle-shooting incident then you havent been playing enough poker rooms - it's just as full of shady people as there are decent ones.

As Kuraitis said this is no angle shoot, rather a cheating attempt from the amateur. It would have been an angle shoot if he was holding the stack and not crossing the line completely. In such scenario the full house dude would just pick up the pot accumulated before the river. Joe either trolls or doesn't plays live poker.

I think we need to set a clear definition for angling vs cheating. To the uninformed they can be blurred.

How about they just ban players that try either and have cool, smooth, ethical games instead of pure stupidity.

This feels like something a fourth grader would do.

Problem is only fishes would do that, and fishes lose a lot of money, so casinos dont have the incentive to ban them

What this article doesn't say is thats in the end Armenian mike decided to cut short and leave him the chips before feldman made any decision

I might believe it was a joke if he had 72o but he was clearly drawing and threatening the allin "if his card hits" and I'm sure it wouldnt have been a joke then

Regardless of his intentions, when you play a game you gotta know the rules. You can't say all-in and then take your chips back. Sorry man.

On June 12 2018 09:11 Expiate wrote: As Kuraitis said this is no angle shoot, rather a cheating attempt from the amateur. It would have been an angle shoot if he was holding the stack and not crossing the line completely. In such scenario the full house dude would just pick up the pot accumulated before the river. Joe either trolls or doesn't plays live poker.

and angle shoot is exactly that, an attempt to cheat, also if you bervaliza all-in it doesnt matter if your chips cross the betting line.

Verbal actions have priority over chips, if you say "two thousand" while throwing 3k in chips, a 2 thousand bet is made

On June 13 2018 07:49 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On June 12 2018 09:11 Expiate wrote: As Kuraitis said this is no angle shoot, rather a cheating attempt from the amateur. It would have been an angle shoot if he was holding the stack and not crossing the line completely. In such scenario the full house dude would just pick up the pot accumulated before the river. Joe either trolls or doesn't plays live poker. and angle shoot is exactly that, an attempt to cheat

by confusing/tricking your opponent. There was no confusion here, the guy just didnt want to pay. Apparently this is a thing players can actually do and the room cant make you pay, but you'll of course get banned for life if you refuse.

@Baalim: Angle shoot is a dishonest activity, but it doesn't violate the rules of the game per se. For example, do you consider ethical practise to be when you start a conversation with your opponent with the only intention to gain more information about the hand you are playing? I don't consider it ethical, so the boundary between what falls in the "angle shoot" category is clearly very thin, but THIS action from the amateur is 100% not an angle shoot. He hasn't done it intentionally, he just attempted to quickly bring back his stack like no one is watching.

Verbal actions can also be quite easily reverted - for example I may say "All-in...", pause for a fraction of a second and add "Is how much exactly?" or something stupid like that and have fun with the followed circus explaining I didn't mean to go all-in, I just wanted to know if my opponent covers me (or some random reason that will keep me my stack).

This happens all the time in live and is a solid reason why you have to be EXTRA observant while in a hand.

Btw little OFFTOPIC: Mexico gonna pass the group or not? I am going to place my bets tomorrow...

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