Submitted by : Roald

PokerStars Game #10874567077: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2007/07/10 - 21:01:54 (ET)
Table 'Atalante IV' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: Olycrawford ($35.55 in chips)
Seat 2: goseihappa ($75.10 in chips)
Seat 3: dtrivett ($51.25 in chips)
Seat 4: japo07 ($56.25 in chips)
Seat 5: Brierwood ($30 in chips)
Seat 6: $ilver39 ($101.30 in chips)
Seat 7: brad_shaft ($27.45 in chips)
Seat 8: bAm0404 ($44.05 in chips)
Seat 9: Hero ($69.70 in chips)
Olycrawford: posts small blind $0.25
goseihappa: posts big blind $0.50

Holecards
Dealt to Hero
dtrivett: folds
japo07: raises $1.50 to $2
Brierwood: folds
$ilver39: folds
brad_shaft: folds
bAm0404: folds
Hero : calls $2
Olycrawford: folds
goseihappa: calls $1.50

Flop (Pot : $6.25)

   
goseihappa: checks
japo07: bets $3
Hero : raises $6 to $9
goseihappa: folds
japo07: calls $6

Turn (Pot : $24.25)

   
japo07: checks
Hero : checks

River (Pot : $24.25)

   
japo07: bets $45.25 and is all-in

This guy hasnt shown anything crazy so far. Anyone consider calling here?

I wouldnt no

such a ridiculous overbet, i'd pitch

Do you consider betting turn?

you must really be steaming if you thought about calling this

i think i'd bet turn though yeah

Not steaming but calling into question that which I had already thought was knowledge since it is not going well

On July 10 2007 18:13 Roald wrote: Do you consider betting turn?

against a player who calls too much yeah, i like to check vs solid players usually

Pitch this and curse Lee Jones for such shitty turn/river cards.

On July 10 2007 18:11 Fayth wrote: such a ridiculous overbet, i'd pitch

bet turn it's highly unlikely he made a PFR with a 9
river looks like he's got AK

you beat nothing but a crazy bluff and you said yourself hes not crazy

I would bet the turn, he hardly ever has a 9 here. The only 9x hand I would consider him holding would be 99. And if he does happen to have a 9, then you have redraw to boat.

Reason for betting turn: You have a set, its most likely the best hand, so there's no reason not to want to play this for stacks. If you don't bet turn, you won't get his stack by the river, and he's never going to allow you to cr him on the turn because he will check behind almost 100% of the time.

fine play, check turn is the best play here I think. you need a real consistent read on your opponent to bet 77 here and even then against those guys you should consider checking. against random opponents turn easily is a check and river easily is a fold.

what? how is turn a check here? what hand with a 9 do we put him on? he raised in EP in NL50 fullring, other than 9X (very few hands fit this type anyway) and 88 we look great against his entire range, and even against 9X we have 10 outs. he almost certainly also has in his range...

overs+gs
tpgk
top2
mpgk
OESD (KQ)
overpairs

i can't see how we can possibly justify sacrificing so much value against this range of stuff that we not only crush, but that also certainly calls a bet. as long as you give him worse than 5:1, your bet is profiting, because his best possible draw is the OESD.

also, it's extremely rare that he has TT/JJ here and doesn't get allin on the flop.

just bet around half pot here to maximize value by getting a call from every single hand in his range. if he check/raises, NOW you are in a really tough spot and probably should fold. if he check/calls and then open shoves the river, it's also a tough spot and likely fold. if he check/calls and value bets the river, you should still call most bets up to like 75% of the pot, because enough people are betting 1pair/2pair/bluff to make it a good call.

but man, wtf, turn check misses SO much value. how can we give nl50 fullring players credit for check/folding 1pair, 2pair, overs+gs, OESD...? no way.

They're already saying it... The eight is a strange card to check, and I don't see why Yugless would "check [an eight] vs solid players usually". Maybe aces, nines, and queens are potentially dangerous turn cards, but not an eight; against a solid player you can be nearly certain his hand does NOT contain a nine, and you are not missing value, you are not folding out most hands that called the flop, because he has no reason to think you have a nine, either, so his assessment of your hand can't have changed much. I automatically bet the turn. I agree the river is a fold. AK, KK, QQ have been added to the range that beat you, and this sounds most like AK. If he's bluffing with something like JTs that he was screwing around with preflop, then he picked a good spot here, and you opened the door by checking the turn.

dont they fold on a board where 9 makes a straight? I dunno I guess a bet is good yeah

On July 11 2007 09:28 [vital]Myth wrote: what? how is turn a check here? what hand with a 9 do we put him on? he raised in EP in NL50 fullring, other than 9X (very few hands fit this type anyway) and 88 we look great against his entire range, and even against 9X we have 10 outs. he almost certainly also has in his range... overs+gs tpgk top2 mpgk OESD (KQ) overpairs i can't see how we can possibly justify sacrificing so much value against this range of stuff that we not only crush, but that also certainly calls a bet. as long as you give him worse than 5:1, your bet is profiting, because his best possible draw is the OESD. also, it's extremely rare that he has TT/JJ here and doesn't get allin on the flop. just bet around half pot here to maximize value by getting a call from every single hand in his range. if he check/raises, NOW you are in a really tough spot and probably should fold. if he check/calls and then open shoves the river, it's also a tough spot and likely fold. if he check/calls and value bets the river, you should still call most bets up to like 75% of the pot, because enough people are betting 1pair/2pair/bluff to make it a good call. but man, wtf, turn check misses SO much value. how can we give nl50 fullring players credit for check/folding 1pair, 2pair, overs+gs, OESD...? no way.

I would definitely bet the turn in this spot

Bet turn Ronald - as played I'd exepect him to showodwn either a higher set or AK - because he is UTG raiser its more likley he has big cards/pairs compared to a hand that contains a 9 - bet turn next time

the turn is a scare card for both players. what calls a turn bet on that board? JT. KQ if we bet small enough, and stuff that beats us. its not just, "he probably doesnt have a straight, i bet". its a scary board for the hands we beat. checking here will give us some value on the river vs some weaker hands. sometimes turn bet is good with some history, but i think a check is pretty standard. idk, i could be wrong, seems pretty sound to me though.

we are betting for value/protection - bad rivers which don't have to improve anyone's hand include 9, Q, K A. Betting here IMO is just standard aggresive poker, its not a marginal bet by any means - also we should not assume villian is mega-solid and folds out worse hands every time, this is an assumption WAYY too many people make when deciding to value bet

tom you're a good man yo thanks for replying to my thread