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Handnr: 1061855
Submitted by : TimDawg

PokerStars Hand #3212244196: Holdem No Limit ($2/$4) - 2016/01/16 4:17:31
Table #10376871 6-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 2: PLR_8506955AL ($390 in chips)
Seat 4: Hero ($1,630.91 in chips)
Seat 5: PLR_3621809QK ($394 in chips)
Seat 6: PLR_5578415NT ($316.06 in chips)
PLR_8506955AL: posts small blind $2
Hero: posts big blind $4

Holecards
Dealt to Hero AhAd
PLR_3621809QK: folds
PLR_5578415NT: folds
PLR_8506955AL: raises $10 to $12
Hero: raises $32 to $36
PLR_8506955AL: calls $24

Flop (Pot : $72.00)

   TsJc3s
PLR_8506955AL: checks
Hero: bets $28
PLR_8506955AL: calls $28

Turn (Pot : $128.00)

   TsJc3sJd
PLR_8506955AL: bets $84
Hero: calls $84

River (Pot : $296.00)

   TsJc3sJd5d
PLR_8506955AL: bets $242.00 and is all-in
Hero:

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Comments

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Ryan Neilly   United States. Jan 18 2016 15:58. Posts 1626

you should be much wider here making this a snapcall

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newbie.cjb   United States. Jan 18 2016 16:57. Posts 3096

snap call

my lose is a win. my wins are nothing. 

fira   United States. Jan 18 2016 18:42. Posts 6345

call seems fine. one thing to note - his turn lead makes no sense... we should have plenty of Jx so his play is very fearless unless he thinks we never 3bet a jack pre which is obv bad thinking. fold exploitably is vs never-bluffer is ok i think but folding as balanced is probably exploitable since this is top of our non-Jx range


4TM   United States. Jan 18 2016 21:48. Posts 712

I think we have to call here. We don't block 8/9/Q/K/spades and if we fold this we are folding everything but J+. In anon games it would be tough to have a strong enough read to explo fold this imo.


ClouD87   Italy. Jan 18 2016 23:07. Posts 524

I'd take a fully exploitative approach to this hand and say it's very player dependant. I believe it's very easy to find a big edge in this spot if you understand the player type you are playing with.

IMO the only player you should call this hand against is a competent regular who is well rounded in game theory and has shown you he is willing to bluff in spots where he thinks he has very little fold equity. And even then you are in a marginal bluffcatch situation. But even then sizing can be a big tell here because most people will donk a small size on this card, while he's clearly setting up a river shove.

Other regs will just donk turn and give up river with air for the reasons stated above. Also people tend to be cally on drawy boards no matter what and nl400 regs know this very well. It's simply a spot where it's very hard to find enough bluffs.

Based on these assumptions I believe on average this spot is a clearcut fold, and yes we can justify our possibly fine game theory call saying we would be folding too much otherwise, but if we take an exploitative approach we could possibly print in this spot, which seems better to me.

 Last edit: 18/01/2016 23:11

traxamillion   United States. Jan 18 2016 23:09. Posts 10468

Theoretically you guys are right, which is why in anon games I wouldn't doubt villain takes this line exploitatively with his own Jx and no bluffing range


traxamillion   United States. Jan 18 2016 23:11. Posts 10468

I posted right before cloud's post and didn't see what he wrote (I agree with it) so I was responding to the posts above his


traxamillion   United States. Jan 18 2016 23:21. Posts 10468

More I'm thinking about it though hero obv has way less Jx than villain so it clearly feasible he just puts 32 AQ/AK in ur range cbetting there that always folds by river and some AK may even peel turn/fold riv increasing ev of the last barrel, few JX, and overpairs that may fold to river jam (if they do this bluff goes from close to money in the bank).

For value the line is prob as good as anything else too since I doubt we bluff this run a ton and often check ip before stacks go in

May be too exploitable to fold Red AA,

 Last edit: 18/01/2016 23:23

TimDawg    United States. Jan 18 2016 23:29. Posts 10197

btw i had no reads on this player before the hand. he just sat down

online bob is actually a pretty smart person, not at all like the creepy fucker that sits in the sofa telling me he does nasty shit to me when im asleep - pinball 

ClouD87   Italy. Jan 18 2016 23:30. Posts 524

Maybe these games run differently than what I am used to, but I doubt random villain will take this line with KQ cause he blocks really hard the folding hands and AQ/AK definitely don't always bet on this flop, depends on the player ofc but it's hard to say we always cbet them. The hand that makes the most sense is 89s but even then he has to bluff more than that.


traxamillion   United States. Jan 18 2016 23:41. Posts 10468

Not saying Tim always cbets AK or really anything about his frequency there at all, just that villain may put it in his range if he wants to rationalize his bluff.

KQ blocks some folding hands but it blocks some qj/Kj that hero may 3bet Bvb too. He'd be better off reducing AJ combos obv but not to say he wouldn't see some marginal benefits to blocking QK/QJ as outweighing the effect of blocking folding hands


traxamillion   United States. Jan 18 2016 23:46. Posts 10468

Blocking at max 4 QJ/QK is not outweighing reducing KK/QQ folding combos (if they fold!) By 6 and knocking out the straight draws


ClouD87   Italy. Jan 19 2016 00:06. Posts 524

Maybe you are right. I've seen sick herocalls on that board but perhaps it's not as bad as I made it to be

 Last edit: 19/01/2016 00:06

jvilla777   Australia. Jan 19 2016 01:37. Posts 1347

Why the smallish flop bet?

longple: ur missing the point! this is an attempt to get away from the bumhuntmentality! 

YoMeR   United States. Jan 19 2016 03:22. Posts 12435

yo if you don't feel all that great about calling try this.

find random number generator. hit it. 1-49 snap call 50-100 muck it

eZ Life. 

handbanana21   United States. Jan 19 2016 05:25. Posts 3037

Really think this whole 30% pot stuff is whack unless you are world class. SB range is too wide for us to fold.


TimDawg    United States. Jan 19 2016 06:17. Posts 10197


  On January 19 2016 04:25 handbanana21 wrote:
Really think this whole 30% pot stuff is whack unless you are world class. SB range is too wide for us to fold.

i'm caught between trying to play GTO (flop sizing) & still thinking playing exploitatively in some spots (the river here) is best

halp

online bob is actually a pretty smart person, not at all like the creepy fucker that sits in the sofa telling me he does nasty shit to me when im asleep - pinball 

TimDawg    United States. Jan 19 2016 06:19. Posts 10197

also betting 1/3 on flop might not even be the best option according to GTO solvers here. I just know in a general sense the solvers prefer to go 1/3 a lot in 3b pots. I wouldn't be surprised if it preferred bigger sizing.

online bob is actually a pretty smart person, not at all like the creepy fucker that sits in the sofa telling me he does nasty shit to me when im asleep - pinballLast edit: 19/01/2016 06:20

traxamillion   United States. Jan 19 2016 08:47. Posts 10468

I think this flop texture should see some of the largest cbets we make in the game in 3bet pots here IP. Other than maybe QJ2ss,QJ3ss, Q97ss types


Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Jan 19 2016 15:23. Posts 9634

This is pretty much the best bluffcatcher we hold


YoMeR   United States. Jan 20 2016 00:00. Posts 12435


  On January 19 2016 05:17 TimDawg wrote:
Show nested quote +

i'm caught between trying to play GTO (flop sizing) & still thinking playing exploitatively in some spots (the river here) is best

halp


Imo we should be betting based on our hand strength and how many run outs we like/dislike as a rule of thumb. AA is obv towards the top of our range but without A spades here I like a 1/2 psb here. I feel you give villain too good of odds to continue with a vast portion of his range esp on this board texture betting less than 1/2 without the As.

If we had the As or even something like AsJx then I don't mind smaller sizings. Just so we can continue profitably on more run outs.

eZ Life. 

handbanana21   United States. Jan 20 2016 01:30. Posts 3037

It could completely be the correct sizing, but unless you are making a serious effort to study the solvers, theres a good chance that betting 1/3rd pot on a ton of boards is going to cause u to misplay other streets at a much higher frequency.


LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Jan 22 2016 13:03. Posts 15143

Yeah doubt you have a big range advantage here with THE TJ and FD that just hit him tons and are not really good for you, I'd just cbet 50% with all my range and have lower cbet %

93% Sure!  

dogmeat   Czech Republic. Jan 28 2016 01:59. Posts 6374

yeah its pretty silly to cbet 1/3 on this board, good ones are A-low-low and broadw-broadway-x. just bomb it on low connedted

ban baal 

 

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