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Handnr: 1060995
Submitted by : YoMeR

PokerStars Game #3188828621: Holdem No Limit ($2/$4) - 2015/12/09 15:00:00
Table Worcester 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 2: Hero ($511 in chips)
Seat 3: P3_519983HK ($230.06 in chips)
Seat 5: P5_891750RD ($448.60 in chips)
Seat 6: P6_590327OF ($517.90 in chips)
Seat 7: P7_292525XM ($396 in chips)
Seat 9: P9_128306BJ ($549.60 in chips)
P5_891750RD: posts big blind $4

Holecards
Dealt to Hero 2c2s
P6_590327OF: folds
P7_292525XM: folds
P9_128306BJ: raises $8 to $12
Hero: calls $12
P3_519983HK: folds
P5_891750RD: folds

Flop (Pot : $28.00)

   Ks8d2h
P9_128306BJ: checks
Hero: checks

Turn (Pot : $28.00)

   Ks8d2hJc
P9_128306BJ: bets $18
Hero: calls $18

River (Pot : $64.00)

   Ks8d2hJcQc
P9_128306BJ: bets $40

YoMeR: ????

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Comments

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traxamillion   United States. Dec 10 2015 05:33. Posts 10406

I'm leaning nitcall since his turn bluffs probably have A10combos and maybe 910 while for better value he has JJ/QQ/KK. He would have to bet call more than QJ/J8 and KJ/KQ that didn't cbet for this to be good and i doubt he does since u wont have many bluffs here either

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devon06atX   Canada. Dec 10 2015 10:23. Posts 5405

Get as much money in as you think he'll possibly call with?


devon06atX   Canada. Dec 10 2015 10:28. Posts 5405

@trax. I feel like the majority of players don't give people their 'true advice' when it comes to posted hands. Cuz they know something was up, or it wouldn't be posted.

I highly doubt if you're 4-tabling (or wtfever), you'd consider this a pot-control situation - at any situation in the hand.

... BUT, since it was posted, let's treat it special.


TimDawg    United States. Dec 10 2015 10:56. Posts 10188

i think you can raise/fold to jam something smallish

you get a call out of his 2p's (probably) and you never get 3bet bluffed on the river. i'm also almost always inclined to just start by betting this flop

online bob is actually a pretty smart person, not at all like the creepy fucker that sits in the sofa telling me he does nasty shit to me when im asleep - pinballLast edit: 11/12/2015 06:27

traxamillion   United States. Dec 10 2015 11:20. Posts 10406

im not lying about what I wrote those are my thoughts on the hand

in order to raise river IP we need to be ahead of 50% of his calling range. I imagine he does call 2p but he doesn't have a ton of those combos and if he can have all A10o for example we are actually not even ahead of 1/2 his calling range (plus we may get bluffed off our value raise some small % but agreed that is negligible)

Instinctually this river would feel a little sketchy but you are right it might not defer me from our c/r plan in the moment devon. This is 1 of the 4 worst rivers (9/10/Q/A) though so maybe it wouldn't be awful to switch up our plan on a few runouts.


lebowski   Greece. Dec 10 2015 12:42. Posts 9096

I doubt he even calls a small raise with some of his 2 pair hands if he's a reg, seems like a call to me, idk why we check flop though

new shit has come to light... a-and... shit! man... 

dogmeat   Czech Republic. Dec 10 2015 15:30. Posts 6374

flop c/ is terrible obv

ban baal 

YoMeR   United States. Dec 10 2015 21:12. Posts 12391

my idea behind flop check is he has the range advantage on this flop but still decides to check so I'm assuming he has AQ/AJ type hands very often that won't call a flop bet but will calla turn/river bet more often as they'll pick up equity. I don't think vs a flop check here we are getting 3 streets as often as 2 streets on turn river.

Didn't think this thread would blow up instantly tho lol.

any comments is appreciated.

eZ Life. 

YoMeR   United States. Dec 10 2015 21:15. Posts 12391


  On December 10 2015 09:56 TimDawg wrote:
i think you can raise/fold to jam something smallish

you get a call out of his 2p's (probably) and you never get 3bet bluffed on the river. i'm also almost always inclined to just always start by betting this flop



this was exact line i took on the river. Raise to $100 and get flat by JJ LOLL.

I'm not convinced that raise is better or call is better. This is a great hand to run some sims on. I'm very interested in what the programs will spit out

eZ Life. 

Big_Rob_isback   United States. Dec 10 2015 22:16. Posts 197

The most important thing I take away from this is figuring out how often the villain checks the flop as pfr and with what range he does that with. Is he static or dynamic with this range, does is change with game flow etc? Maybe figure out ways to exploit a guy that checks JJ here by bluffing a lot in position. Posting single hands in a vacuum just doesn't do it for me anymore, it takes like 75% of the game away.

After this hand I would more be thinking about how I am going to exploit villain. But hey, i played 400 nl in 2009 so I think I am like a 100 nl level player now.

Also, raising to $100 and getting called by a better hand isn't the worst thing in the world, it effects your range image. Villain may now be more cautious against you, and you can abuse him. Am I just saying crazy illogical bs or does this make sense?

just playing live poker for funLast edit: 10/12/2015 22:25

dogmeat   Czech Republic. Dec 10 2015 23:02. Posts 6374


  On December 10 2015 20:12 YoMeR wrote:
my idea behind flop check is he has the range advantage on this flop but still decides to check so I'm assuming he has AQ/AJ type hands very often that won't call a flop bet but will calla turn/river bet more often as they'll pick up equity. I don't think vs a flop check here we are getting 3 streets as often as 2 streets on turn river.

Didn't think this thread would blow up instantly tho lol.

any comments is appreciated.


thats not how you construct ranges ip, you should always bet your nut hands

and AQ/AJ should c/c the flop Oo

ban baal 

fira   United States. Dec 11 2015 00:06. Posts 6297

mm i'd just call river. it's unclear whether we get more value out of worse hands, whereas better hands are never folding (and villain has plenty of better hands - T9, AT, JJ, QQ). i don't hate a small raise/fold but i wouldn't feel comfortable doing so vs unknowns

we go on 

Stim_Abuser   United States. Dec 11 2015 00:14. Posts 7499


  On December 10 2015 20:12 YoMeR wrote:
my idea behind flop check is he has the range advantage on this flop but still decides to check so I'm assuming he has AQ/AJ type hands very often that won't call a flop bet but will calla turn/river bet more often as they'll pick up equity. I don't think vs a flop check here we are getting 3 streets as often as 2 streets on turn river.

Didn't think this thread would blow up instantly tho lol.

any comments is appreciated.



I think the hands that are basically air bet here a huge portion of the time, it's way too good of a flop to cbet/double barrel with his air. I think he's checking with value hands that he thinks are good enough to c/c you but not good enough to get value from worse. Maybe like QQ/JJ.

It's just such a weird flop for him to check with basically anything though.

I think it's close between a raise/fold and just a flat. I just feel like all his value hands we beat that call would bet this flop like 90% of the time like kj/kq. And a lot of the ones hes beat us like AT/JJ/QQ, I wanna just flat but it seems so nitty lol.

Hey Im slinging mad volume and fat stackin benjies I dont got time for spellin n shit - skinny peteLast edit: 11/12/2015 00:14

Spitfiree   Bulgaria. Dec 11 2015 01:35. Posts 8808

are you a winner @ 400nl?


YoMeR   United States. Dec 11 2015 05:13. Posts 12391


  On December 11 2015 00:35 Spitfiree wrote:
are you a winner @ 400nl?



u sound mad

eZ Life. 

YoMeR   United States. Dec 11 2015 06:17. Posts 12391


  On December 10 2015 22:02 dogmeat wrote:
Show nested quote +


thats not how you construct ranges ip, you should always bet your nut hands

and AQ/AJ should c/c the flop Oo


you're not wrong. AQ/AJ should be c/c flop often. But this guy is clearly a nit. And i was trying to make more nit money. I thought it was implied i believed he's folding off those types of hands at near 100% here

eZ Life. 

YoMeR   United States. Dec 11 2015 06:31. Posts 12391


  On December 10 2015 21:16 Big_Rob_isback wrote:
The most important thing I take away from this is figuring out how often the villain checks the flop as pfr and with what range he does that with. Is he static or dynamic with this range, does is change with game flow etc? Maybe figure out ways to exploit a guy that checks JJ here by bluffing a lot in position. Posting single hands in a vacuum just doesn't do it for me anymore, it takes like 75% of the game away.

After this hand I would more be thinking about how I am going to exploit villain. But hey, i played 400 nl in 2009 so I think I am like a 100 nl level player now.

Also, raising to $100 and getting called by a better hand isn't the worst thing in the world, it effects your range image. Villain may now be more cautious against you, and you can abuse him. Am I just saying crazy illogical bs or does this make sense?



I def note stuff like this and adjust accordingly to how I think is most exploitative vs his tendencies. I'm posting hands like this because this is pretty far from my standard hands/lines and could spark interesting discussion/perspectives.

eZ Life. 

TimDawg    United States. Dec 11 2015 06:32. Posts 10188


  On December 11 2015 05:17 YoMeR wrote:
Show nested quote +



you're not wrong. AQ/AJ should be c/c flop often. But this guy is clearly a nit. And i was trying to make more nit money. I thought it was implied i believed he's folding off those types of hands at near 100% here


yeah, dogmeat's post is why I like always betting flop. I think he c/f's very little and would for sure expect the AQ/AJ to c/c. And he should check some Kx some frequency of the time, so it's not necessarily true you won't get 3 streets here. Also when you barrel off you look uber polarized on a lot of run outs and I could see some regs just calling down with worse than Kx sometimes

You could also definitely be right about the river. It could be a flat, maybe small raise is fine. I need to get dat PIO shit

online bob is actually a pretty smart person, not at all like the creepy fucker that sits in the sofa telling me he does nasty shit to me when im asleep - pinball 

LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Dec 11 2015 09:30. Posts 14773

Think the check's fine exploitively against someone who doesn't protect his checking ranges and check folds too much?

I'd just flat the river now vs a nit

93% Sure!  

Fayth    Canada. Dec 11 2015 18:46. Posts 10085

not sure why we are not raising turn after we check back flop so deceptively, regardless flop I believe is 100% bet

as played I would raise river, something between 100 and 130 I guess and fold to a jam given I don't see what he could turn into a bluff except maybe AA

Im not sure what to do tomorrow when I see her, should I shake her hand?? -FloofyLast edit: 11/12/2015 18:48

traxamillion   United States. Dec 11 2015 22:23. Posts 10406

Are u the same fayth active on 2+2?


Fayth    Canada. Dec 12 2015 00:11. Posts 10085

yes lol

Im not sure what to do tomorrow when I see her, should I shake her hand?? -Floofy 

YoMeR   United States. Dec 12 2015 02:05. Posts 12391


  On December 11 2015 17:46 Fayth wrote:
not sure why we are not raising turn after we check back flop so deceptively, regardless flop I believe is 100% bet

as played I would raise river, something between 100 and 130 I guess and fold to a jam given I don't see what he could turn into a bluff except maybe AA



Maybe i was too focused on just going for 2 street poker here thinking villain's ranges really suck as played. I kinda like a turn raise but I feel we really shouldn't have a turn raising range here. care to comment?

eZ Life. 

Fayth    Canada. Dec 12 2015 02:25. Posts 10085

we could include hands like T9 or AT as a bluff raising range on the turn for balance if that's what you are concerned about, raising turn is definitely fine as long as you kinda mix your options

Im not sure what to do tomorrow when I see her, should I shake her hand?? -Floofy 

YoMeR   United States. Dec 12 2015 20:07. Posts 12391

Hrm... thanks for the input gives me something to intellectually chew on.

eZ Life. 

 

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