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Week 2 Beginnings

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Advant1   Canada. Feb 10 2011 04:25. Posts 20
So it's week 2 since I've begun. (Look @ Previous entry if you dont know)
I was going to update on Week 1 but I was at my girlfriend's and felt lazy to do so, so I'll recap here.

Anyways, I've gotten off PlayMoney and finally started cash on PS.
Depositing $15 to start with @ $0.02/$0.05NLHE I'm not doing TOO bad.
Been only been playing about 3 hours now and I'm up $4.00.
Though in those 3 hours I've dipped to about $7ish but I've managed to scrape my way back up - your right though, cash and playmoney are 2 totally different playstyles.

I'm continuing to read up on articles here and there, familiarizing myself more with fundamentals and such. Times I lose hands are when I'm an idiot and decide to call with losing hands - which brought me back to the basic rule (@ this stage) of "Winning by playing less hands". Playing real tight and overlooking the process as a bigger picture.
Yes I know the math is google-able but I still don't understand just by reading it. I'm more of a practical person - or maybe I'm just a dummy who can't do simple poker math?
Anyhow, it's 4:30 in the morning and I'm going to stop playing for tonight before I start losing, and will pick up tomorrow afternoon&night again.

NOTE: I'm still trying to figure out the math in all this though - right now I'm kind of playing by sense and strong hands, not really knowing the percentage & math of this.
If anyone would be kind enough to take their own time explaining it to me over MSN or something? Would be greatly appreciated!!!

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Beginner in training! Tips and advice greatly appreciatedLast edit: 10/02/2011 04:28

Gigabeef   United Kingdom. Feb 10 2011 06:56. Posts 111

Don't be surprised if you bust only playing on 3/4 bi. Most people recommend that you should have about 20BI to play a given stake at NLHE, and when trying to learn the basics it is not unreasonable to have 5bi swings (tbf its not unreasonable to have 5bi swings at any time) due to the variance of the game.

What math are you referring to? There are situations for math but playing general hands and value betting against worse holdings doesn't really need any, especially at microstakes.
+ Show Spoiler +

For things like pocket pair set mining, you can do the analysis before you sit down at the table and make a basic rule to follow i.e. you flop a set 1/8 (12.5%) of the time, so under the assumption that you are going to get it allin every time, if someone's preflop raise is <12.5% of your effective stack (the lowest of either your or villains stack, i.e. the total amount that can get in the middle should you both shove), you should call to try and hit your three of a kind. However, this is obviously a flawed assumption (you can't get all the money in every time), so you can make this smaller, to something like if the raise is <5% or 1/20 of the effective stack. This would allow you to say: "Ok so I have a pocket pair, there is a preflop raise before me of 4bb however because the effective stack is greater than 4*20 = 80bbs, I can call here and profitably set mine due to my implied odds".

I think most of the rest boils down to basic counting of outs, which is 95% of the time straight draws and flush draws.

This is basically: How many cards can come that give me the nuts/best hand on the next street and can I *make x play* given those odds? Easiest example is with nut flush draws, Axs where you have two of the same suit on the flop. To make the flush here, there are 9 remaining cards of our suit in the deck. To make this calculable on the fly, we assume that the deck has 50 cards in it left that are unknown to us (this is approximately true, preflop there are 50 we don't know, on the flop there are 47 etc) which makes it remarkably easy to work out what our odds are. As I said, 9 cards can come that will give us the nuts, and the probability of that is 9/50, so just doubling that we get 18%.

The odds are split into two categories, pot odds and implied odds. Pot odds are easier but not as useful. If the villain's bet is less than 18% of the total pot here, we can call every time and try to hit simply due to money in the pot. Implied odds are based upon other things such as what tendencies villain has shown (like whether they will bet again on a future street/spazz out with TPTK), where we can call without pot odds due to the implied odds of us hitting and getting more money from their stack later. If you think the hand will go allin a good percentage of the time, the implied odds is of the effective stacks between yourself and villain, but obviously implied odds are a sliding scale based on how much money you think you can get out of them when you hit.

For example: If you know that villain will bet again if a flush comes on the turn but will c/f the river then you don't have the implied odds for getting stacks in, but you can call more than the pot odds from from the flop would indicate. Implied odds are a judgement call that depend on the villain basically and comes with experience and practice.

I cba to write any more but I think that's it? If I've missed anything fundamental then someone better can explain or whatever.

Gl at the tables.

NewbSaibot   United States. Feb 10 2011 09:14. Posts 4884

Your profit at this level is going to come from betting the river, not calling river bets. Just keep that in mind, and realize that if you have somehow made it to the river and are the one simply calling, you are probably behind.

listening to edzwoo has made u a nit... *sigh* - Zalfor 

Gigabeef   United Kingdom. Feb 10 2011 09:17. Posts 111

  On February 10 2011 08:14 NewbSaibot wrote:
Your profit at this level is going to come from betting the river, not calling river bets. Just keep that in mind, and realize that if you have somehow made it to the river and are the one simply calling, you are probably behind.

ya +1 tbh

Advant1   Canada. Feb 10 2011 11:04. Posts 20

Wow! Okay, thanks Giga, that cleared up a lot of things for me - and yes I know I started with 3/4 of BI but it was just a risk I was willing to take lol.

and thanks for the insightful advice NS. Will play with these things in mind and have a next update at the end of this week.

Beginner in training! Tips and advice greatly appreciated 

attik34   United States. Feb 10 2011 15:01. Posts 92

Another thing I'd suggest, get pokerstove and plug stuff into that...I really started getting better when i started realizing how close certain hands/situations are. You'll see that your not as far ahead/behind as you'd think

Run good, button! 

superfashion   United States. Feb 10 2011 20:57. Posts 918

If you have that little in your bankroll, you can easily just shortstack 2nl. I had $18 on stars and decided I was going to 12table shortstacking the micros in order to get a roll back together and I'm up to about $300 now. Normally I wouldn't say anything good about shortstacking but your roll is so short that it's going to be a lot safer to keep more money behind in case you get coolered.

shoving here as a bluff at 50NL is like explaning calcalus to a 6 month old cat wtf are you thinking - TalentedTom 

Advant1   Canada. Feb 11 2011 01:26. Posts 20

Yeah I feel uneasy playing 5NL with just what I have now (just over $20)
Playing multiple tables of 2NL sounds a lot safer but then again who knows I could just totally eff up and lose everything =/ unless I play ridiculously tight and aggressive when need be?

Ionno, I'm still trying to process what Giga stated in the above post, in my head
But how long did it take you to get up?

Beginner in training! Tips and advice greatly appreciated 


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