My first "perfect" AI for a game

Ban Floofy.

hmm i think i found something that works ok
-2
-5
-8
-13
/2
/3

This seems to be complex enough. it starts at 5000. seems hard to believe that its impossible to win, but it is

hmmm i think i found something that works ok

Go have sex with gf

On February 12 2012 22:26 BiNK wrote: hmmm i think i found something that works ok Go have sex with gf

if your trying to suggest my program must have taken so much time to make that i don't have time to spend with my gf anymore, you are completly wrong, this kind of program is really quick to make. This is not a Poker or Chess AI.

If your trying to suggest programming AIs is nerdy or something, sure it might be, but if i eventually manage to program a strong poker AI it won't be so nerdy anymore i wanted to start with small easier programs.

how do u know your bot's solution is perfect? sry if obvious

hmmm the gambling game in KOTOR 2 was cool http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Pazaak

it appears to have solid rules/complexity of game. idk if there is any way to play it w/o having to install KOTOR2

Well first, i used the mode "-1 -2 -3" where i could easily tell if my bot is perfect (since the optimal strategy is VERY obvious).

Now all i did is change the math operations, but in theory the bot acts the same, there is no reasons it wouldn't work anymore. it is programmed in such a way i can just change the math operations (takes a few seconds) and it still play perfect.

I used what you call a recursive function (something that calls itself) so it basicelly brutes force the whole game in a way similar to chess programs (if i do this, then what if my ennemy does any of his options? then what if do any of my options to any of his options? etc up until the end of the tree.) In chess you have to stop the tree search at some point (chess is too deep), but this game is a lot less complex so it can easily be brute forced entirely, even with nearly 0 thinking time.

I also did a few tests.... i put it at 5000 and the game claims i cannot win, so i tryed a few things and lost horribly every times.

But i guess its not completly impossible there exist a bug somewhere (but i doubt it).

Note: the bot is impossible to beat if you play first and its 5000. However if the starting number is something else, then it could be possible (even tho the bot is perfect). However i can imagine that it would be insanely difficult for an human to beat the bot if the starting number is over 5000. i have no idea if theres a math formula to solve it when options are -2 -5 -8 -13 /2 /3 (but the bot use all options in ways that doesn't seem to have patterns).

Why don't you get two bots to play against each other, then you can easily see the tactic they use

i don't think its very informative but here it is.

note: the way i programmed the bot, if it sees he is in a loosing position (when if ennemy plays perfect, he cannot win), he just does -2

5000
#1 -2
#2 /2
#1 -2
#2 -8
#1 -2
#2 -13
#1 -2
#2 -5
#1 -2
#2 -8
#1 -2
#2 -2
#1 -2
#2 /3
#1 -2
#2 -8
#1 -2
#2 /3
#1 -2
#2 -8
#1 -2
#2 /2
#1 -2
#2 -13
#1 -2
#2 -8
#1 -2
etc (got tired here )

As u can see there doesn't seem to be any logical patterns in his actions.

When the math options where simple (like -1 -2 -3) you could do it easily tho,

Of course there is a logical pattern if it plays a perfect game. But I don't quite get it.... If you have programmed it yourself, you should know exactly what tactic it is using?

Yes i programmed it and i know what strategy it use, but no human can use that strategy since its a brute force strategy.

I'm not sure if you understand what a brute force strategy is. it involve exploring the whole Tree of all possible plays that can be done. By doing this, it doesn't matter how complex the game is, it will find the best play

Basicelly he first begins with really small numbers (like 20) and determines wether or not it is possible to win if its 20 and its your turn (at this point its really simple even for an human). then it goes to 21 and remember the result of 20, then does same for 22, all of that until it reach 5000, and it remember all of the results so its always really easy to find the best play.

Like if if it knows that when it is your turn and the number is 20 you cannot win, and he is currently having the number 22, he will just use -2.

Then he knows 22 is winning number, so if he have 44, he is NOT going to do /2 (since it would give the opponement a winning number). he just slowly determine all numbers this way.

cool stuff!

if anyone wants to test the program u can pm (also mention if u wanted a possible version or not .... 5000 = impossible, 5002 = "impossible" but really hard.

On February 13 2012 00:36 Floofy wrote: Yes i programmed it and i know what strategy it use, but no human can use that strategy since its a brute force strategy. I'm not sure if you understand what a brute force strategy is. it involve exploring the whole Tree of all possible plays that can be done. By doing this, it doesn't matter how complex the game is, it will find the best play Basicelly he first begins with really small numbers (like 20) and determines wether or not it is possible to win if its 20 and its your turn (at this point its really simple even for an human). then it goes to 21 and remember the result of 20, then does same for 22, all of that until it reach 5000, and it remember all of the results so its always really easy to find the best play. Like if if it knows that when it is your turn and the number is 20 you cannot win, and he is currently having the number 22, he will just use -2. Then he knows 22 is winning number, so if he have 44, he is NOT going to do /2 (since it would give the opponement a winning number). he just slowly determine all numbers this way.

If this is the case then you could find the "winning numbers" in advance and then use the math to stay on these numbers, even a human could do that if they knew all the winning numbers. Did you check if there is some kind of pattern in the winning numbers?

actually this is exactly what the bot does. if he doesn't find "winning numbers" in advance, the tree is so large that his actions takes forever even if the number is just 100. So he just slowly determines if numbers are winning or not, up until 5000, and use what he previous found to find the answer (but he does it in a split second).

Well in theory a human could do it too, but when the number is 5000, it takes a long time to find all winning numbers...

And no, i haven't checked if there's a pattern yet

Here this is all the results for 1-1000
G means its a good a number if its your turn, B means its a bad one
Assuming options are
-2 -5 -8 -13 /2 /3

i can't really think of easy patterns here.

Heh nope its hard to spot a pattern there. It looks like there are more winning numbers than losing numbers, so it would be easier for a human to memorize the losing numbers and then avoid them, instead of the other way around.

more winning numbers is logical.

Having a loosing number means no matter what option out of the 6 you choose, your opponement will end up with a winning number.
And when you have a winning number, there is always at least one option that will give your opponement a loosing number.