My hud covers a lot of the table and as such, I have probably lost hundreds of dollars failing to see if someone is in the hand or not.
Classic things like the c-bet into one...whoops two people and minreraising a ninja preflop raiser.
Therefore, I'm hoping to at least mod my FT cardbacks (make them preferably a bright gay rainbow). Has anybody else done this and can share what they use?
TRL2: Calling & 3Bettingby LemOn[5thF], November 28
Part 2 of Thin Red line introductory video. This is about 3betting, and determining 3betting frequencies and ranges. For Non-3bet pots, or note on why I need to review all this so badly please see my previous post. Author is Grindcore, a guy that owns with red line with ridiculous winrates and is one of the best video makers when it comes to adjusting to villains.
This part is more useful to SSNL players, everything will be more or less obvious to you better guys, but please read if like me you need revision.
Green - My comments
Blue - Cliffs (added at the bottom). DO NOT criticise cliffs without reading the section please. They are for you lazy guys, and are done by me = they may wrongly interpret the author.
Without further ado:
3BETTING
Two types of ranges:
1)De-Polarised
This is simple, just best hands. If you 3bet 5% de-polarised range you pick aces, kings and keep going down in value until you have 5% of hands
2) Polarised
1 Part is for value (QQ+)
1Part is a bluff (J9o).
Polarised or De-polarised
You should evaluate how often you will get called, and how often you will get 4bet.
A) Polarised
Lets say a theoretical opponent only 4bets or folds, he NEVER calls a 3bet. Lets assume we can't call his 4bet profitably and we can only fold/shove.
We should ask ourselves what is the worst hand that we can shove for value. Against nitty players this will be QQ+.
When you hold a hand like KQo pre-flop and you think its profitable to flat, by 3betting it you are losing that equity and you might as well 3bet with a hand like 72o. Cards do not matter in this example when you 3bet and fold to a 4bet(ignoring blockers), because you will never see a flop anyway.
B) De-polarised
Now imagine you have a calling station. He will flat a lot of 3bets and rarely 4bet. Now KQ is easily re-raised for value. Against this type of opponent we will not have two, but only one range - a value range which is the top of our range.
Position and polarisation
A lot of players will play 4bet/fold out of position and will call in position. When we raise from the blinds the preflop raiser is likely to call with relatively wide range. It will almost always be a good idea to 3bet a de-polarised range out of position.
Naturally, when you are in position (e.g. BU v CO). They will play more 4bet/fold, so we should polarise our range.
However note that this is not always true, e.g. against a fish you should be still 3betting de-polarised range from any position.
Cliff: The more likely villains are calling a 3bet, the more you should de-polarise your range and the more likely they are to 4bet or folding the more it should be polarised
How do you come up with a polarised range?
A lot of people do it by feel. E.G. A guy gets dealt Q5s OTB and faces a raise he will think: 'Should I 3bet him? MMM.... M.... Nah not this time.
Instead of doing it by random or by feel, you should:
1) Have a range that you are 3betting with 100% of the time.
2) Have a range that you are folding 100% of the time.
Note: I can see many of you will disagree here ;o
Why?
Lets say the deck is rigged, and all we get is either A9o preflop and A2o preflop. We are going to 3bet our opponent 50% of the time. The ones doing it by random/by feel would be 3betting 50% of the time with A9o and folding it half the time, and 3bet 50% A2o and fold it 1/2 the time.
But it doesn't really make sense to 3bet A2o one orbit, and then fold A9o the second orbit. A9o is of course a more profitable hand. A more profitable strategy would be to 3bet A9o 100% of the time, and fold A2o 100% of the time.
You can apply this example to different hand types. e.g. K8s vs Q4s. If you want to 3bet a guy 15% of the time, and do it for value 5% of hands (TT+ AQ+) and add 10% bluffs, you shouldn't be randomly bluffing 10% of the time. You should instead Come up with top 10% of your PF folding range the best hands that you are folding are the best hands to be 3bet bluffing.
To know what hands you can 3bet bluff,you have to know what your calling range is (as it determines your folding range).
Lets say PF, CO opens and we are OTB with KXs. We have to ask ourselves : 'What is the weakest KXs that we can call profitably with?' Lets say its KTs, and K9s is not +ev to flat. Now K9s should be a 100% 3bet. Even if we want to bluff the guy with a low frequency, K9s is still a 100% 3bet.
You can then increase your bluffing frequency by simply dropping down in kicker. E.G. if the weakest you 3bet is K8s against one guy, and you encounter another guy that has 5% higher fold to 3bet, you can now drop down to K5s. You still fold K4s 100% of the time, but you are 3betting K5s K6s K7s 100% of the time.
Cliff: Your 3Bet bluffing range should be the top of your range that is not profitable to flat pre-flop
The value part of your polarised 3betting range:
Just ask yourself 'What is the weakest hand we can profitably 5bet shove all in when we get 4bet?
If the answer is QQ+ AK, then that should be your value range.
!If you can't profitably 5bet shove hands like AQs, JJ when you get 4bet, you shouldn't be 3betting them!
You can see this in the low stakes forum a lot, someone 3bets JJ when his 3betting range should have been polarised and then asks what he should do ;o. Or the geniuses 3betting QQ IP against fit/fold turbonits and then asking what to do against a shove
YOUR READS AND EDGE DETERMINE THE RANGE OF HANDS YOU CAN PLAY PROFITABLY
To know the top of your folding range you need to know your calling range.
What hands can you call profitably PF? That depends on the EDGE(skill advantage) you have on the players, and the READS you have on them.
Example:
Scenario A) A very good player is opening 25% hands on the CO.
Scenario B) A very bad player is opening 25% of hands in the CO.
We are OTB. Here we can call a lot wider in scenario B) than in scenario A). Therefore the top of our folding range(and hands we 3bet bluff with in a polarised range) will be a lot different in both scenarios.
For example if we can call the good player with KJs suited only, and KTs is getting thin, then KTs is the top of our folding range and it should be the first hand we start 3bet bluffing.
Against the poor player we can call even with K7s, so now K6s will be the top of our folding range and will be the first hand we 3bet.
This concept is not explained very well in many instructional videos. Just because Galfond can call a 4bet with QTo oop, doesn't mean you can.
Or not to go to extreme, flatting even AJs in position can be unprofitable against a villain that has relatively tight ranges and completely outclasses us.
This is why standard ranges suck, and how reality check and being realistic about your abilities are so important.
Your opponent's fold to 3bet and 4 betting tendencies determine your 3betting frequencies and range.
Example1: Imagine a player that is so tight he even folds pocket aces to a 3bet. He is so afraid of a bad beat, and he has a weak heart so he just doesn't want to risk a heart attack so he just folds AA to a 3bet.
Even a hand that is a clear foldcall pre-flop like 66 or JTs is now more profitable to 3bet because we win the pot 100% of the time.
Example 2: Imagine a guy that NEVER folds to 3bets. We should NEVER 3bet bluff him, just raise with value.
Cliff: To come up with your 3betting range: Lets say you have QXs. Evaluate what is the worst QXs you call call with (lets say QTs), and then start adding Q9s and the higher his fold to 3bet is the worse kickers you add.
100bb Poker: 'Strong' hands are better than 'Pretty' hands when 3betting
You should give higher priority to for example suited kings than suited connectors when 3betting 100bb deep.
Good 3betting hands 100bb deep that should be the start of any 3bet bluffing range are the off suit aces - they have an ace in them so they are all relatively strong hands, but on top of that they have a blocker effect. Just by having the Ace its some 20% less likely that villain holds TT+ AQ+.
Cliffs:
The more likely villains are calling a 3bet, the more you should de-polarise your range and the more likely they are to be 4bet or folding the more it should be polarised
YOUR READS AND EDGE DETERMINE THE RANGE OF HANDS YOU CAN PLAY PROFITABLY
Your 3Bet bluffing range should be the top of your range that is not profitable to flat pre-flop
To come up with your bluff 3betting range: Lets say you have QXs. Evaluate what is the worst QXs you call call with (lets say QTs), and then start adding Q9s and the higher his fold to 3bet is the worse kickers you add.
So I was playing Poker alot back in May and stuff while playing the sc2 beta. Well after starcraft 2 came out I haven't had any inspiration to play poker. I decide to log on my poker stars I just felt like playing in a tournament today. I had 2.63 cents left. I decide to play in the 180 man 2.20$ tournament for the hell of it. Nothing exciting happens then the blinds get to like 100 and i'm at like 1300 chips not getting any good hands. I get AA 2 people shove so I call and win the hand with a 3 of a kind.
Awesome things are going well for me. Some point in the tournament when the blinds were 600 and I hadn't been able to win any hands I get QQ and lose so i'm down to like a thousand chips again and there were still about 80 people left.
I get A/J same suit diamonds and shove. 3 people call me and I win, well its a start. I shove with 10/10 and a guy calls me and I win. I kind of get lucky with these shoves and people calling me with hands that confused me (2/7 off suit lol).
So anyway somehow I make it to the final table. 3 guys knock eachother out within 2 minutes. I get KK and shove as the blinds were 1.5k by now. I win and get to 30k chips. I get A/J hearts. I shove, another guy shoves with 9/9. I get the Jack on flop. Last card he gets another 9 so I go down to 15k chips. Then I get 10/10 and out of a bit of frusteration I shove and same guy calls me. I win vs his 99 which he got again. Then from there I won the whole tournament with the final hand was my AK vs his A7 with me getting the king on flop.
Just thought I would share so won 108$ and probably going to try to get back into poker again. can call me a fish or whatever but sure was fun and exciting when I only planned on playing this one tournament for fun as I was bored
I have never in my life seen such an amazing sequence of college football games like this weekend. Every big game (including Georgia vs Georgia Tech) was down to the last minutes. So sick - Go Auburn!! And rofl at the biggest upset (Nevada vs. Boise State) Since Appalachian State vs Michigan 3 years ago.
Step 1: Weigh yourself.
Step 2: Take a crap.
Step 3: Weigh yourself again.
Subtract weight 2 from weight 1. This is the weight of your crap.
Mine was 1.8lb.
Thought LP was the best place to post this discovery.
Heeh... last night I played some NL50 live and wore sunglasses at the table for the first time. I thought I would feel douchey and attract unwanted attention at the table, but turns out I felt quite comfortable in them and think it actually helped my game. Everyone is friends with each other so just a friendly casual home poker game, but I did receive many accolades for how pimp my glasses looked, being smoke gray mirror finish and all. Not sure how much of it was just jive and how much was legit, but they all seemed to act like it made me look more fearsome at the table and they were less comfortable engaging me in pots. LOL i know how gay all this sounds but it did help my confidence and thus helped me play a more solid game.
The real reason I brought them was so I could study players without them noticing. Im not quite comfortable staring someone down, and since this is a homegame I dont want to look like an asshole like Tom Dwan or someone doing it either. As a result I feel confident I picked up some pretty rock solid tells, in the sense like who stares at the board when they have a real hand vs who stares at their opponent when trying to bluff etc etc.
Anyway all was fun and I think I'll start wearing them all the time now hehe. 4 BI win for the session.
Say we got to choose the way we were born into the world, out of the below criteria how would u choose.
We are given 20 points to allocate into 4 categories each category ranging from 1 to 10.
1. Health.
1 Born with aids and brain cancer
5 Average Joe
10 Super immune system would never ever get sick
2. Looks
1 Born with 8 fingers and a deformed skull
5 Average Joe
10 Brad Pitt
3. Intelligence
1 IQ of 30
5 IQ of 100
10 Enstein 99999 IQ
4. Enviroment your born in
1 Born in warn torn iraq
5 Born in a middle class family in a middle class country like China
10 Born as the sole heir to a billionnaire King in the USA or something.
hei guys,
i have lately noticed that my HEM keeps calculating my $ won or lost wrong. Every time i win lets say 500$ HEM shows +400 or +440 or some other number little less than my bankroll shows. It always shows little less. Lose or win :/. I don't know, I noticed this like 15 sessions ago, since then i always check before and after the session and it's been wrong for all the sessions. wtf ?
Can anyone explain this or has anyone expierienced this ?
Le journey, day 2 - watch me failby adeny, November 27
Up early, playing some pokers. Nice way to start my day off. I'll try to post more interesting hands but I can't get much action and when I do it's usually like this:
Ty Engage (+Thin Red Line)by LemOn[5thF], November 26
Engage has become easily one of the top 3 posters when it comes to Low Stakes forum, always coming in and in (what I imagine) is about 30 second churning out ideas and all available options. And we really appreciate it my man!
On November 25 2010 09:17 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote:
so you guys bet the turn with? set and ak?
wow you guy must be hard to play
note on guy '' he suck 3 bet shit and check turn if he doenst have nut and fold if i bet becuase he suck hardcore so i must bet sec pair in his face when he does that easy money''
if you 3 bet him pre with that you MUST have a reason
and that reason should brings you to bet call turn ou check shove or w/e
its 4 handed and the guy raised every hand o n button and cutoff
COMON
+we are oop wich make vilain range wayyyy bigger(preflop and on turn)
i see alot of regs here calling twice with 88 99 KJ AJ AThh etc etc
people are bad
people dont all play like you
if you want to play KQo oop 3 bet pot
play it for real
dont play it like a faggot its wasting money
On November 25 2010 11:03 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote:
im an agressiv player so it change alot of you guys are sick nit
im getting called and shoved over with TERRIBLES hands
nl400 to nl1k
also
sometimes making the -ev play might be the best play in the long run
river is prolly a check, player dependent
My redline was always breakeven and I was always beating NL50 with ease
On November 25 2010 11:04 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote:
also im pretty sure u guys have a red line going allll the way down
My reply:
This is so true, and it never was my problem just became one when I came back after a longish break. I think this thread sums up why I am losing, I kept my wide preflop ranges and aggresive image and then didn't value bet thinly and did't keep aggression with the top of my range, started c/calling strong draws too much and folding way to often with the absolute top of my range.
I think I am just generating dead money by playing wide and trying to find reasons to pump money iwith marginal hands into the pot and then fold with tons of equity and a good hand and the top of my range.
And btw redline is correlated to my winnings and always was.
I am a a dead money generating machine pretty much. And Engage helped me realise this (I'd imagine we have a similar image)
REDLINE - by Grindcore at DC
This dude is just awesome and wins huge money just by redline. I think his resources are the best for trying to fix a red line
I was very much following his advice and doing great, but I forgot all those things. This is a short overview of basics. I will post one more post on the rest of his 90 min video. Here are my notes in first 20 minutes:
Your red and blue lines are from the most part dependent on how YOUR OPPONENTS are playing.
e.g. you cannot have positive redline against a bot that never folds and you beat him with blue line
Or an opponent that folds all hands but aces: It will be hard to beat him with blueline, but your redline will always be positive. It will be a big leak not to win at non-showdown against him or not to raise 100% of hands when you steal his blind.
Microstakes
At micros average opponents rarely fold and play close to the bot that never folds, so it makes sense to be winning by blue line. Very good players should be able to have break even redline at micros, but not having it is not a big leak SSNL
at NL100-NL200 you will encounter a lot of regulars that beat the micros. They learned the tight solid game absent of running big crazy bluffs. There is also a lot less fish at these stakes. In order to beat these stakes it becomes much more important to know how to beat the regulars.
And how do you beat a solid regular that doesn't get out of line and shows down strong hands most of the time? Well, it will be much easier to bluff him.
A lot of the regulars are weak tight (Well Grindore sees them like that ;o), it will be very tough to beat them in showdown, and the optimal strategy will be to beat them in non-showdown.
How does the redline work? Bluffing
Actually way less important than many people think. People that try to fix their redline are often fixing what isn't broken in the first place and just start to play like aggro monkey and lose even more money. Value betting
You'd think vbetting is good only for your blue line. You vbet more you just get more value right? Thats not true.
Imagine a spot on the river when you have the best hand 75% of the time and you check.
You check: 75% pot gets added to the blue line (EV*POT)
Redline remains stationery.
You make a thin vbet here:
Lets say you get called 50% of the time when you bet, and you win 3/5 and lose 2/5. This might or might not be good for your blue line depending on the betsize etc (compared to a check).
Half the time when you get called, 60% of the pot gets added to your blue line.
But now 50% of the time you don't get called you are adding to your redline.
In this example both your red and green lines will go up when you valuebet thin.
Bluff catching
Again If you are capable of making hero bluff catches you naturally think about your blue line, because you win more at showdown when you catch a bluff.
Lets say you are getting 2:1 on the river, If you have 40% equity you can make a +EV call good for your green line.
60% of the time you lose
40% of the time you win.
If you fold:
Blue line remains stationery
Red line goes down by what you put in the pot already.
If you call:
Your blue line will 60% of the time go down, 40% of the time will go up.
Red line remains stationery (its better for your redline than folding).
So calling here when you have the odds to call is good for your Green and Red lines, but bad for your blue line.
Grindcore never tries to win at non-showdown, but always takes the most profitable action, but it so happens he wins through redline pretty much.
The Standard game
How you play against unknown, average player at the game you are playing.
Is the backbone of your game.
You can deviate from your standard game once you get reads.
Most players don't deviate from their standard game enough. They make basic adjustments like value a bit more against a calling station and bluff less, but many players are very limited.
E.G. a player that folds a lot to cbets. Your adjustment should be to cbet a lot, even 100%. His adjustment should be to stop folding to your cbets. But people don't make these types of adjustments almost at all, and are capable of only really crude and obvious adjustments, and they stay quite close to their standard game.
If you find even a small leak in a regular's standard game at SSNL you can exploit it over and over again because they won't pick up on it. First level where people really start adjusting well is NL600.
At NL200 the very best regulars are capable of adjusting, at NL400 only the better ones and only at NL600+ you can assume that most unknowns are adjusting to you.
Preflop deviation: Opening
You can change your pre-flop ranges without changing your frequencies by adding more 'Strong' hands or 'Pretty' hands (strong hands are hands that make big pairs like AKo, pretty hand don't make pairs byt make a lot of draws like 9Ts)
Lets say you are opening 25% from CO. Of those 20% is pp, broadway any As and you always open them. The last 5% you have a choice - Offsuit aces OR suited connectors (strong/pretty hand).
Against weaker players suited hands go up in value. They are not bluff catching enough and will not pay off your value bets. Semi bluffin >value betting.
Against calling stations that don't fold bluff catchers, semi-bluffing goes down in value, but value betting goes up in value. Strong hands > Pretty hands.
e.g. 3 stations behind you ->fold hands like 79s, but raise hands like A8o
3 Weak regulars behinf you -> 79s is now way better than A8o because semi-bluffing will have much better value than vbetting.
Position
You also have to pay attention to position. If a player that doesn't like folding IP you should play tighter and use more strong hands. It will be hard playing against him with pretty hands OOP (This applies not just to fish but many regulars BVB or CO v BU).
When you are IP it will be much harder for him to adjust and people also play tigther oop.
Who gives you action?
Usually the button and big blind are most likely sources of action for you and people tend to play tighter in the small blind.
Fish are likely to call regardless of position.
You shouldn't have a standard opening range from any position, you should look at players who are likely to give you action and ask yourself ' what should be my opening range in this spot?'. You should have unique VPIP and PFR for every spot that you open because villain composition and their position will be unique most of the time
What is your image
Did you just show down a huge bluff a couple times in lst few orbits?
Probably a good idea to tighten your opening range
Were you card dead and your VPIP is low?
Well now you can get away with much more and you can steal wider range as you will get more gredit.
Stealing
Many times you can you can steal 100% of hands.
If you raise 3X in SB. The big blind has to defend with 40%+ of hands if he isn't, you are instantly showing a profit on your steal even if you open fold every single flop.
Almost no TAGs are defending 40% hands in their BB at SSNL.
As a rule of thumb, if VPIP of villains <20 you can open 100% of hands on button or small blind. (OF course if you do it so often they might pick up on it and start 3betting you light, so pay attention to that).
To be continued . . . (Calling, 3betting, and very detailed discussion on use of specific STATS/how to deviate against specific leaks)
Have no motivation to play online atm, not putting any volume. Only 4k VPPs away from my goal so there's really no point in playing, I find it hard to set money goals, it just creates frustation. Really really bored with the grind, so I moved up but I run sick sick bad at the 115s because apparently -150k fishes hit gutshots always. Also really busy with uni.
Today tho I went to play some live 1/2 3-card holdem and in a short 3.5 hours session I busted everyone at the table (~10 ppl) except one guy (who didn't wanna play HU for some reason ), for a 2.5k profit, so that was nice. 3-card holdem is the shit, basically you get pairs every hand and hit sets every other hand and stack ppl when you do because no one folds anything ever its live poker duhh.
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), for a 2.5k profit, so that was nice. 3-card holdem is the shit, basically you get pairs every hand and hit sets every other hand and stack ppl when you do because no one folds anything ever its live poker duhh.
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