Buying desktop computer - Page 2

Im actually building a computer right now. Its going to be pretty solid. and definitely under $1500.

Case- Antec 1200
Mobo- EVGA 780i FTW
Processor- Q9550
Video Card- x2 GTX 275's
HD- 500gb 32cache 4.2ms response time 7200 Western Digital HD (Nothing special, because its not necessary)
RAM- GSKILL DDR2 x2 2GB sticks (4gb) 1066mhz ram
Power Supply- Corsair 850 Watt

building a computer is alot easier than what alot of people think, who've never done it before.

Anyone who tries to picture as if I said instead of Nehalem get a Celeron is a moron.

This is from Tom's hardware:

"Finally, it’s worth reminding our readers that, if you’re a gamer, there’s little reason to sink your resources into an expensive processor. From the sub-$200 Core i5-750 up to the $300 Core i7-860 (and beyond—we’ve seen this phenomenon over and over), you’re going to realize the same frame rates at most resolutions unless you buy very expensive graphics card configurations."

Link: http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/turbo-boost-overclocking,review-31765-11.html

THE OP SAID HE'S GONNA PLAY SC2 AND DIABLO.

He needs an average Card, average CPU, like 4GB RAM max, and something good for the HDD, like onboard SATA RAID
with 2 HDDs. This is not going to be expensive AT ALL, and, given his budget and NEEDS (remeber: SC2, no Far Cry) is
going to be the fastest.

dude i used to be a games programmer. everything is all relative.

you can have the worlds fastest processor, uber graphics card with best pixel shaders and mega amounts of RAM... but if your hard drive is the bottleneck then you'll still have big pauses.

like you write a game it could be:

compute AI (CPU)
cache results (RAM)
render characters (gfx card)
particle physics (gfx card)
load new enemy (HDD)

the FPS is the sum of all those tasks in the game. it just happens that games do more graphics rendering than everything else. BUT the price you pay for a component has increasing prices for marginal performance increase.

so sacrificing one component for a marginal increase in another is BAD. because the sacrificed component will be a bottleneck and it won't be that much benefit to the component.

Actually the FPS is not the sum of all of those components. If you load a game world and all elements of that world are fully loaded to render a scene, then that scene will render as fast as possible without ever touching the harddrive. It's not like every time you kill a player in counter strike the system accesses the HD to load another. And lets say you're playing a MMO where there are too many characters to ever load at once, when those characters are needed they will be pulled from the HD, which will take like a nanosecond. So the game loses maybe a single frame of animation for 1 second doing this process, but THEN your net FPS goes back up once all game features are back in memory for use. But if you sacrifice cpu/gpu for better HD seek time, then you will ALWAYS be losing frames per second since the system is in a constant 100% bottleneck. An HD bottleneck only accounts for a fraction of overall pc performance, everything else is directly dependent upon the cpu/gpu.

Haven't read the whole thread, so excuse me but we don't know when is sc2 or diablo3 coming so i'd just simply buy the cheapest video card atm. Buying a Computer in advance when we don't even know if the game will come out is just pure blindness. That's what i did when i didn't know when this wc3 game would be out before buying a nice video card which i still use as of today ^_^

On December 31 2009 21:59 NewbSaibot wrote: Actually the FPS is not the sum of all of those components. If you load a game world and all elements of that world are fully loaded to render a scene, then that scene will render as fast as possible without ever touching the harddrive. It's not like every time you kill a player in counter strike the system accesses the HD to load another. And lets say you're playing a MMO where there are too many characters to ever load at once, when those characters are needed they will be pulled from the HD, which will take like a nanosecond. So the game loses maybe a single frame of animation for 1 second doing this process, but THEN your net FPS goes back up once all game features are back in memory for use. But if you sacrifice cpu/gpu for better HD seek time, then you will ALWAYS be losing frames per second since the system is in a constant 100% bottleneck. An HD bottleneck only accounts for a fraction of overall pc performance, everything else is directly dependent upon the cpu/gpu.

blaa blaa blaa. i programmed games for a living. dont try to tell me how games work noob

bla bla bla I build systems for a living, dont try to tell me that downgrading your GPU for a nice SSD is going to give you better framerates in a game. Besides, you're like 20 years old, what professional game development did you do for a living that in any way relates to the way modern cpu/gpu's are used today?

There was an excellent thread on this at tl.net. The general consensus was that a socket 1156 motherboard, a core i5 processor, 4gb of ram, and an ATI 5770 is the best price/performance you can get right now and will crush sc2 pretty hard. Depending on what parts you choose and your individual needs, it could cost you between 700 and 1k$. If you're deadset on an AMD machine for whatever reason, just get the exact same thing but with an AM3 motherboard with DDR3 and a Phenom II x4 955, it will save you maybe like 50-60$ but you'll have a definite performance decrease for non-gaming. Whatever you do, don't get a socket 775 intel motherboard/cpu with ddr2. Upgrading will be really difficult for you in the future and this socket is on its way out. If you're not a super hardcore gamer who's playing crysis maxed at 2560x1600 resolution, don't get all gay with SLI/Crossfire either, it's a total waste of money. A 5770 with an i5 will max sc2 at 1900x1080 at good frames very easily.

This might not be a great time to build a new pc. The new Nvidia dx11 cards are supposed to come out in March and all video cards should experience a price drop after that. I believe the new i3 and more i5 and i7 processors are coming out shortly after that too, so the current technology will probably fall in price a little bit. I would wait until at least around march, ssds will probably also get a little cheaper by then which would definitely be good for a poker player with large hand databases and HEM/pt3.
If you really want to buy one now because yours broke or whatever, here's a sample i5 build: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/277312-31-need-advice-build

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=97450
Past page 45 or so, lots of discussion about desktops and stuff.

On December 31 2009 02:54 anon wrote: i will mainly use it for poker, however i might get stuck with sc2 and diablo that's why i am buying a good one. I won't be building it myself i will just tell the main parts i want, they will do the rest. And i don't plan spending more than 1.5K$

If your main use of the computer is anything but games (ie poker + internet for example), your HDD will be the bottleneck. If you can, get an SSD for the OS + apps + pt/hem database, and a big storage one for everything else. Get an Intel X-25M or Crucial for the SSD (the 1st generation of SSDs weren't really worth it in terms of speed or price), and I would suggest a WD for the storage, but whatever really. I'd avoid Seagate as they still have a really bad track record recently. If the SSD is too expensive for your budget (which I doubt), at least get (in decreasing order of preferrence) a Raid0 of WD velociraptors, a Raid0 of whatever disks or a Velociraptor for the OS/apps/db.

With a very good HDD, the difference for everyday desktop use is not subtle at all, it's night and day. For pure gaming, it's debatable. It probably won't affect FPS at all or just barely, but will dramatically reduce loading times.

On December 31 2009 21:59 NewbSaibot wrote: Actually the FPS is not the sum of all of those components. If you load a game world and all elements of that world are fully loaded to render a scene, then that scene will render as fast as possible without ever touching the harddrive. It's not like every time you kill a player in counter strike the system accesses the HD to load another. And lets say you're playing a MMO where there are too many characters to ever load at once, when those characters are needed they will be pulled from the HD, which will take like a nanosecond. So the game loses maybe a single frame of animation for 1 second doing this process, but THEN your net FPS goes back up once all game features are back in memory for use. But if you sacrifice cpu/gpu for better HD seek time, then you will ALWAYS be losing frames per second since the system is in a constant 100% bottleneck. An HD bottleneck only accounts for a fraction of overall pc performance, everything else is directly dependent upon the cpu/gpu.

I already gave my opinion on the benefits of faster HDD for gaming, which is off-topic imo, but lol a nanosecond for an HDD access ? Best case scenario will be around 10000 nanoseconds, and that's assuming all the data that needs to be pulled is in the same location on the disk or close enough.

yes yes I know it wont literally be a nanosecond, but the in-game swaps will be totally unnoticeable. I have been playing pc games for almost 20 years, from shit systems to average to high end, and never once have I had a game get slowed down from HD swaps during play. And the only reason I keep pushing a non-SSD build is because he will likely be wishing he had a faster video card than a faster harddrive in 1-2 years once he starts loading up some real shit besides poker databases on his system. Who drops $1500 on a box that does nothing but play poker? I've built 3 rigs from pentium 2ghz to 3ghz in the last 3 months for poker buddies that handle HEM just fine, and these are old piece of shit systems with 1GB of DDR400 ram and a 128meg video card. If OP really wants nothing more than a poker box it will cost him about $600-$700, not 1500. I'm going to assume that if he's putting this kinda cash into a system he's going to use it to its full potential.

On January 01 2010 00:48 NewbSaibot wrote: blabla, authority argument, authority argument, off-topic, authority argument, bla bla

No offence intended but that sums up your post imo I've been playing games for 20 years too and building computers for almost as long, who cares.

Again, game performance is a non-issue. He said he may play SC2 and D3 when they come out. Those are Blizzard games, they will run on about anything he buys now, that's how blizzard does it all the time. At least SC2, when D3 comes out he'll probably have changed his computer once or twice already lol. And if he wants absolute top graphical performance then, he'll be able to buy a graphic card that beats anything on the market now cheaper than the average current price of video cards.

Every current compute will handle poker and HEM "just fine". That's not the point either. I prefer fucking smooth to just fine. Again, as pluzich pointed out very well, unless he's doing really computationnaly intensive calculations, he will not feel the difference between a medium-good CPU and a top-of-the-line CPU at all. But, between a medium-good HDD and a top one ? Hell yeah, it's extremely perceptible. pluzich explained all the good reasons why that is, so I won't bother repeating them, but that certainly ought to be more convincing than just saying 'trust me'.

Forget about all those 1-2s (or even 5-10s) pauses when a program loads, or goes to fetch some data on the disk. Bye bye. It is easily the most cost effective boost of performance for non-gaming use in pretty much any computer you can build nowadays (after having enough RAM).

And again, I'm not saying he should sacrifice CPU and GPU for the HDD, I'm just saying it's the most cost effective place to put more money.

phenom II 965
gigabyte ma770t-ud?p (depend if you want ,ore slots or not...)
4gigram
samsung f3 1tb
hd 5850
a decent psu


shouldnt cost more then like 700€ and your ready to go for evrything.

Thank you all guys, but i got confused even more now. You got into some deep discussion but i need a comptuer asap since i can't play poker. Tommorow i will be heading to the shop and i need a list of parts...
What do you think of previous suggestions? Which one should i choose?

CPU: Intel Core i5 750 BX80605I5750 Processor - 2.66GHz, LGA 1156, 8MB L3 Cache, Quad-Core, Lynnfield, Retail
Mobo: Asus P7P55D LE Motherboard
RAM: G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1333 (PC3 10666)
Graphics: XFX Radeon 5770
Power: Antec NEO ECO 520C 520W Continuous Power ATX12V v2.3 / EPS12V 80 PLUS Certified Active PFC
Case: Antec Nine Hundred Black Steel ATX Mid Tower
Harddrive: 500GB SATA2 Samsung HD502HJ 7200RPM 16MB Hard Drive
Disc Drive: Lite-On IHAS124-04 Internal DVD Writer
OS: Windows 7 Home Premium

VS BeMannerPenner's
Ati Radeon HD 5850
Samsung F3 1TB
Phenom II x4 965BE, 3,400 ghz

VS Lokonious'

Mobo- EVGA 780i FTW
Processor- Q9550
Video Card- x2 GTX 275's
HD- 500gb 32cache 4.2ms response time 7200 Western Digital HD
RAM- GSKILL DDR2 x2 2GB sticks (4gb) 1066mhz ram
Power Supply- Corsair 850 Watt

VS ikc5's
ocket 1156 motherboard, a core i5 processor, 4gb of ram, and an ATI 5770

I know it is really hard to compare these lists since some of them are not full but if anyone could conclude what should i go for mainly for poker+HEM and perhaps SC2 and Diablo i would really appreciate
Thanks again you all

whenever i buy a new system i prioritize low noise first. i research decibel levels on case fans, video card fans, and what temp the video card runs at relative to the next brand. then i buy as much vidcard/powersupply/hd as i can. cpu ain't shit i just get dualcore whatever with the best instruction sets and most cache available i.e. look into server grade cpus.

whats the best for a purely poker setup and just plain everyday needs? i need a reco for the specs for that , i just need teh cheapest i could spend for it
i mean like no lag on pokerstars/ hem/ tableninja having 2 monitors and a movie running plus a download and if i had like a 2 million hand database?

Hello computer donks, I work at Kisildalur.is, a computer shop here in Iceland.
And what we would do when someone would walk in to our shop with 1500USD(200kISK) and wants to play poker and SC2/Diablo, is to tell him he doesn't need 1500USD for that, especially if he only needs the computer not the screens, mouse or keyboard etc.
What you need is 4GB CL5-9 RAM, any C2D, C2Q, I5 or core I7, 9600GT or better(we need to know what size your screen is, for your resolution), any motherboard that fits the following from a trusted manufacturer and a 7200RPM 16/32MB buffer 3.5" hard drive.
Looking at newegg.com, this should not cost more than around 8-900 dollars at all..

I can't answer all these because I'm tired, but whamm!, I have been running a C2D e6750 with some basic shit that cost me 550$ 2 years ago and I can still do that, well I have no idea about the 2Mhand database but, I play COD4 1680x1050 easily with the movie 300 in 1080p running on the other monitor on a 8800GT512MB card..

thanks taco! its not that i wanted to spend 1500USD, i wanted the cheapest and 1500 was max. I have two 20' monitors1600x1200. You see, if i go to shop and tell something like you told me they will surely screw me, but if i come with very specific order, there won't be any corners to cut

Unfortunately some computer stores are douchebags, ask anyone in Iceland where the best service is and they would tell you Kísildal.
I obviously don't have a 2 million hand hand history or anything, and I don't know if your computers are getting slow because of that or anything, but I wouldn't even consider buying a SSD for my computer right now, the technology is just really really infant like at the moment, 85% of them score 100-500% worse than the last 15%, and the one that are really made to last the decades cost thousands of dollars, and I am then talking about single cell disks. A man from spjall.vaktin.is told me he spent around 100 hours configuring his OS to work properly with his high end SSD, and he is a GEEK. And to you people using both SSD's please, in the name of god DO NOT DEFRAGMENT THEM.
And anon if you can somehow dig up a technology forum in your country and tell me where they shop I could build you a computer there, I can't find the good stores because I don't speak the language obviously.

Nowadays the hard drive is definitely a very nasty bottleneck in many many scenarios and it is great to have a fast one, for my uses I'd always sacrifice some processor $$ for good HD/SSD instead of buying cheap HD + top cpu... for video cards it obviously depends if you are playing 3d games or not