50nl fold turn?

guy is 17/15 with 5% 3-bet, low turn aggression. This std fold or OMG WE HAVE AN OVERPAIR SHOVEE!!!!!

Submitted by : egood

Full Tilt Poker Game #13045548155: Table Battle (6 max) - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:03:08 ET - 2009/06/26
Seat 1: MissMurpsel ($66.20)
Seat 2: oggzo ($175.25)
Seat 3: elmogood ($51.80)
Seat 4: OnlyforValue ($73.15)
Seat 5: Seahawkfan79 ($50)
Seat 6: lorenzo12676 ($27.75)
MissMurpsel posts the small blind of $0.25
oggzo posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #6

Holecards
Dealt to elmogood
elmogood raises to $1.75
OnlyforValue folds
Seahawkfan79 raises to $6
lorenzo12676 folds
MissMurpsel folds
oggzo folds
elmogood calls $4.25

Flop (Pot : $12.75)

   
elmogood checks
Seahawkfan79 bets $9.50
elmogood calls $9.50

Turn (Pot : $31.75)

   
elmogood checks
Seahawkfan79 has 15 seconds left to act
Seahawkfan79 bets $20
elmogood has 15 seconds left to act
elmogood has requested TIME
elmogood folds
elmogood adds $13.70
Uncalled bet of $20 returned to Seahawkfan79
Seahawkfan79 mucks
Seahawkfan79 wins the pot ($30.20)

Summary
Total pot $31.75 | Rake $1.55
Board:
Seat 1: MissMurpsel (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: oggzo (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: elmogood folded on the Turn
Seat 4: OnlyforValue didn't bet (folded)
Seat 5: Seahawkfan79 collected ($30.20), mucked
Seat 6: lorenzo12676 (button) didn't bet (folded)

when in doubt shove as that will remove all doubt and is +ev in the long run

I don't really like calling a 3bet OOP with JJ unless I'm doing so to check/shove most flops.

but im only getting 5bet shoved by better or AK and i'd feel sick folding it pf lol

So what you can do is 4bet shove.

I'm referring to when you say you really don't want to fold JJ pre, not what his range is.

If his shipping range is that tight, you should just fold to the 3bet. What you end up doing by calling and being super unhappy on every flop is putting yourself into a big reverse implied odds situation. You're going to put in the extra money and fold it at some point nearly all the time.

its a nit fold preflop lol
Your positions are so bad to play jacks even on a low flop against him. He looks just like a standard low stakes nit and i guess your image is not crazy so maybe just fold and 3 bet him light in position in the next hands to compensate lol

what kind of flop are you trying to hit when you call with JJ then?

I think folding JJ as UTG pfr to some MP 3bets is ok depending on who 3bets you.

so not much value in calling 3bets oop with jacks then huh

I think it's a fold pre at this limit, but if your calling the flop you better be getting it in on the turn.

is it really that bad to call down with JJ?

On June 26 2009 17:59 jasper5408 wrote: is it really that bad to call down with JJ?

if you call down 3 streets here youre going to lose nearly every single time.

ez turn fold

On June 26 2009 17:13 egood wrote: so not much value in calling 3bets oop with jacks then huh

Depends on position and player.

CO v BTN, sure.
SB v BB, sure.
Anywhere v Scandi, sure.

UTG v Tight Player in CO, maybe not.

a standard fold on turn vs this guy

On June 26 2009 18:47 SakiSaki wrote: ez turn fold

Saki if we fold this turn aren't we spewing a ton on the flop? What's changed really other then we might catch him cbetting A/K but most at this limit will fire again with A/K. If were folding shouldn't the fold be on the flop here?

On June 27 2009 01:19 Cooper83 wrote: Show nested quote + On June 26 2009 18:47 SakiSaki wrote: ez turn fold Saki if we fold this turn aren't we spewing a ton on the flop? What's changed really other then we might catch him cbetting A/K but most at this limit will fire again with A/K. If were folding shouldn't the fold be on the flop here?

i think if you call preflop you have to at least call this flop, otherwise youre just setmining.

On June 27 2009 01:19 Cooper83 wrote: Show nested quote + On June 26 2009 18:47 SakiSaki wrote: ez turn fold Saki if we fold this turn aren't we spewing a ton on the flop? What's changed really other then we might catch him cbetting A/K but most at this limit will fire again with A/K. If were folding shouldn't the fold be on the flop here?

I disagree that most would fire the turn again with AK; that's a pretty broad assumption to make. If we should be folding flop, we should be folding preflop.

JJ is an awesome hand but that's all relative. If you're 3bet by a nit who probably is 3betting your UTG raise for value, and you haven't particularly been 3betting much, or being aggro pre at all, then JJ shouldn't be so pretty anymore. Who cares if it's a big pair you're usually crushed? It's a matter of making the right decision.

NOW if we have reason to believe he can be 3betting us light, calling and c/r most flops in order to pick up the dead money can never be a bad thing. We can also 4bet small to try and give the illusion of FE and make him shove with a hand like any pp or Ax, but from my experience, this doesn't really ever happen at NL50.

if you're planning to setmine then just fold flop
if you wanted to go with the hand, you can just c/r all in on the flop, cause there's a ton of bad turn cards where you're just going to c/f
probably best to fold pre against this guy, seems to be pretty nitty.

Fold preflop or ship flop.

EZ fold here -.-

ez fold prf
as played fold turn

As played, this is a fold. However, I really doubt this is the most optimal way to play JJ here. If he really is so nitty to only be 3-betting QQ+, AK here, then I don't see what's so wrong with folding Jacks preflop. It's not like he's going to exploit you, and if he starts to, he obviously isn't as nitty as you thought, plus you can just adjust.

fold preflop... if u call ship flop. what r u looking for?

this is fine, like 90% of players c-bet their entire range on most flops and give up if called, furthermore close to 100% of people give up on board pairing turns. So calling to "re-evaluate" and assuming he checks down his entire range if called on most turns against a standard tight regular is fine / way superior to any other play

How about donk betting the flop and folding to a big raise/push.

If villian calls then bet 1/2 pot on turn?

ez fold

On June 28 2009 20:24 roller17 wrote: How about donk betting the flop and folding to a big raise/push. If villian calls then bet 1/2 pot on turn?

why donk, he'll only call with QQ+ and fold AK/AQ, whereas if we check we can induce a cbet by AK/AQ

pretty easy fold pre

(given ur position, his position, who he is, who you are)

On June 28 2009 20:24 roller17 wrote: How about donk betting the flop and folding to a big raise/push. If villian calls then bet 1/2 pot on turn?

sure, if you have a read that he ALWAYS gives up with air vs a lead, then its an okay play (but we do not have this read) on that note JJ=22 vs his range, if villian is that easy to play against we can call 3-bets with 22-99 preflop as well and just lead low flops
you cannot do this vs a random though which villian is