covid vaccine - Page 8

On October 07 2021 01:30 Stroggoz wrote: I already said that I don't, if you're referring to me. The only cases I'd support forced vaccine is in situations where the parents are incapable of taking care of children, and only for virus's that have a high chance of harming children, so not for corona but for something like polio (if it was still around), I would.

lol no I'm not talking to you, I'm talking about the our dearest dictator apologist, closet tankie, nazi puncher, gulag-boy.

On October 05 2021 16:02 asdf2000 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 05 2021 10:26 Mortensen8 wrote: No compromise no vaccine baal all of this is a scam and obvious why do normalfags not see it? must be retarded. https://www.bitchute.com/video/GPRndnVqehF3/ https://off-guardian.org/2021/09/22/3...ou-need-to-know-your-covid-cribsheet/ it's actually true, they are all brainwashed due to like some sort of weird mental weakness, or they are retarded lol it doesn't help to actually tell them but it's def true for like 90% of people it's impossible to honestly communicate with most of these people they don't care about integrity they aren't trying to learn and their eyes aren't open they are only looking to validate the beliefs they already have. but you already know this of course. and everyone else who sees what is happening also knows lol. it's pretty wild actually. anyways I don't care, can't spend all my time trying to get people who don't want to see to genuinely (earnestly, genuinely) consider what I am saying like I said, I'll probably end up in the camps, and when that happens everyone can just go ahead and continue to justify it to themselves.

Ok. Why do you and many other people who accept these conspiracy theories often call us mentally weak/retarded/sheeple, ect.

No one has a high success rate in convincing someone of a belief, but If I thought the government was going to take away the public's freedom in any major way, I would be warning people and at least try to be reasonably patient about it-I wouldn't outright condescend anyone as people tend not to be convinced at all if I do that.

Lastly, do you have a strategy for dealing with all of this (outside of not getting vaccinated) or do you just think it's completely hopeless? I bring this up because almost every conspiracy theorist I've met believes that they are completely powerless.

On October 07 2021 01:43 Stroggoz wrote: Show nested quote + On October 06 2021 14:44 Liquid`Drone wrote: Speaking from the pov of Norway here - guessing some of these policies exist in various european countries and american states too, but here, I know how the laws are and what the justification is for said laws. Smoking is regulated in many ways. It's heavily taxed (both to discourage use, and because it places extra burden on the health care system. (I mean, smokers live shorter lives, which is 'good' in that sense, but they tend to require a whole lot of health care in their final 5 years)), and there are other regulations like 'can't smoke inside public buildings because then you expose others to secondhand smoke' etc. Sugar, much the same - I support having a tax on sugary products to discourage too much consumption (and having no tax on healthy food). I also support a tax on Co2 emissions (imo, probably the best or maybe only way to help reduce emissions within a somewhat capitalistic framework.) - this is also supported by Norwegian conservative parties. Anyway, I also don't think smoking/sugar are fair comparisons because they mostly affect you, while not vaccinating makes the virus propagate. People who go like 'well, herd immunity is achieved without me anyway without me contributing' are imo pretty crappy people, even if I can see the selfish rationale - assuming they live in a country where vaccination rates are really high. More importantly, (again, I work in school), I think it's important that people are educated on what the consequences of an unhealthy diet and smoking constitutes - and I experience that this is actually happening. Smoking has - because of various policies discouraging it - virtually disappeared for younger people. Fewer than 1% of Norwegians aged 16-24 smoke cigarettes daily. 10 years ago, that number was 12%. I think that's a wonderful development, personally. I'm not a fan of making things 'illegal', but policies aimed at curbing unhealthy behavior or encouraging healthy behavior? Hugely supportive of that. (about the swine flu in spoiler, I think it's a bit less interesting, but it's a fair point, so I'm addressing it.) + Show Spoiler + The swine flu vaccine is probably the only vaccine I can think of where you might well argue that the negatives outweighed the positives. Narcolepsy is a serious illness. In Norway, between 2009 and 2012, there were 72 cases of narcolepsy in people aged 5 to 26, They also see that the prevalence of narcolepsy was about 5 times higher for vaccinated individuals than for unvaccinated individuals. For that age group as a whole, there were about 1.4 cases per 100000 inhabitants - so 5 times higher translates to something like 3 cases per 100000 inhabitants as opposed to 0.6 cases per 100000 inhabitants. At the same time, the vaccine was pretty successful in stopping infection of swine flu, and getting the swine flu was still much worse than getting the vaccine, even with the increased chance of developing narcolepsy. Part of why the vaccine was a failure, was that the swine flu was less contagious than expected, so only 3% of the unvaccinated ended up getting it anyway. (Current numbers for the US are more than 13% have gotten Covid) Among the individuals who got swine flu however, they were: about 5 times more likely to develop Guillain-Barre syndrome than people who didn't (being vaccinated reduced the chance of getting flu, but showed no increase in that syndrome), doubled the chance of chronic fatigue syndrome (no increase from vaccine), doubled the chance of stillbirth among pregnant women The same person who has been the main spokesperson of Covid in Norway, the head doctor of our people's health institute, has described the swine flu vaccine in negative terms, and stated that it was a rushed mistake. He's been a very somber voice regarding Covid, not being particularly alarmist. He has however, strongly encouraged people to get the covid vaccine. I strongly respect and trust that guy, and there seems to be very strong consensus among all medical professionals I see. Source: https://www.fhi.no/en/news/2017/narcolepsy-after-swineinfluenza/ (again - I've been stating many times that Norway is a highly transparent society. When the institute of public health made a mistake (which they largely regard the swine flu vaccination as), they admit to it, and publish data from studies underlining why it was a mistake. The lack of dissenting voices regarding whether adults should take the covid vaccine (among serious medical professionals, not youtube quacks) makes it abundantly clear to me that it is sound advice.) Not sure about Norway but in NZ most of the way things like drink driving and smoking has been discouraged has been through propaganda, and not education. It's been largely through 30-second adverts that are designed to psychologically pressure people into not driving or smoking. I get that not everyone has the time to be educated on these detrimental things but the way it was done is unnattractive to me.

Drunk driving is mostly discouraged through law. This is probably one area where Norway has stricter punishments than many other countries - drink two beers, drive a car, be randomly stopped, and you get ~2 weeks in jail (can sometimes be served with an ankle bracelet) and lose your driver's license for between 1 and 2 years. Many people think they would be totally fine to drive after 2 beers, but they still don't because the risk is too large - so it's not really about either propaganda or education. (There are exceptions for emergencies, like someone having an accident and having to drive them to the nearest hospital or whatever.) (For the record, drug and alcohol laws are probably where I myself am most in conflict with 'Norway', I think our limit for how much you can drink before driving are a bit excessive - but it seems to work fairly well in principle - a vast majority of people simply have a 'drinking and driving do not go together' attitude. Big difference between Norway and the US in terms of how important having a car is to get around, too.)

But the reduction in smoking is mostly achieved through education, not propaganda. The Norwegian curriculum has three interdisciplinary topics - 'Health and life skills' being one of those three (the other two being 'democracy and citizenship' and 'sustainable development'), and from the 'health and life skills' element, students/pupils are supposed to learn everything they need to live a healthy, balanced life and to develop skills and competence to help them both with their physical and mental health. This includes 'don't smoke', as well as 'maintain a healthy, balanced diet', and 'be physically active for at least 30 minutes per day', 'lift properly so you don't hurt your back', and 'focus on ergonomics'. (Mental health, among other things, focuses on normalizing issues like anxiety and depression so people are more able to talk about them / deal with them early on rather than letting them fester and turn into actual mental illness, as well as focusing on developing friendships and social skills so there are fewer loners, and also highlights the relationship between physical health and mental health and how interconnected the two are.)

I love how this guy keeps harping on about Norway every fookin chance he gets. LOOK AT ME GUYZ at my wealthy country that has a HIgH StaNDarD oFLiVinG hurr hurr. Seriously you have to suffer through this every thread what a dumb drone.

btw notice he never ever mentions norway luck-boxing a bunch of oil back in the 60s or whatever it was. seriously never once hear him talk about that just how amazing norway is lol what a joke.

On October 07 2021 06:29 Stroggoz wrote: Show nested quote + On October 05 2021 16:02 asdf2000 wrote:   On October 05 2021 10:26 Mortensen8 wrote: No compromise no vaccine baal all of this is a scam and obvious why do normalfags not see it? must be retarded. https://www.bitchute.com/video/GPRndnVqehF3/ https://off-guardian.org/2021/09/22/3...ou-need-to-know-your-covid-cribsheet/ it's actually true, they are all brainwashed due to like some sort of weird mental weakness, or they are retarded lol it doesn't help to actually tell them but it's def true for like 90% of people it's impossible to honestly communicate with most of these people they don't care about integrity they aren't trying to learn and their eyes aren't open they are only looking to validate the beliefs they already have. but you already know this of course. and everyone else who sees what is happening also knows lol. it's pretty wild actually. anyways I don't care, can't spend all my time trying to get people who don't want to see to genuinely (earnestly, genuinely) consider what I am saying like I said, I'll probably end up in the camps, and when that happens everyone can just go ahead and continue to justify it to themselves. Ok. Why do you and many other people who accept these conspiracy theories often call us mentally weak/retarded/sheeple, ect.

I didn't call you, specifically, nor drone, specifically. But as a generalization, yes, people are weak. Their convictions are easily swayed, they appeal to authority, they succumb to peer pressure, they are scared, they are hypocritical, and they lack integirity. As a generalization. That's why.

No one has a high success rate in convincing someone of a belief, but If I thought the government was going to take away the public's freedom in any major way, I would be warning people and at least try to be reasonably patient about it-I wouldn't outright condescend anyone as people tend not to be convinced at all if I do that.

Dude my wife is an attorney in MD and she can't even enter a courtroom anymore without the vaccine. And, if she wanted to legally try to fight that - guess what - she won't be able to have another attorney represent her unless that attorney has the vaccine. LOL

There are people all over the U.S. being financially forced (coerced, forced, let's not argue semantics) to take the vaccines. College students all around the country have to get them or give up on getting their degrees (many of whom would be stuck with tens of thousands in loans and no degree or way to pay it back...).

My sister, in Oregon, is a doctor. She is no longer able to practice because she didn't want the vaccine. Are you aware of how many healthcare workers have been fired for not getting the vaccine (which is HILARIOUS during such a horrible pandemic, right? how the fuck does firing all the unvaccinated healthcare workers make sense if our hospitals are so overworked?).

And this is just starting... the government is saying they want to do more. And they will...
And our leaders are intentionally creating anger, creating division. Watch their speeches... they are trying to rile people up....

So how you gonna talk about "If I thought the government was going to take away the public's freedom in any major way...."

Like seriously, what planet are you living on right now?

Lastly, do you have a strategy for dealing with all of this (outside of not getting vaccinated) or do you just think it's completely hopeless? I bring this up because almost every conspiracy theorist I've met believes that they are completely powerless.

Powerless? No. Hopeless, no. I can't predict the future but I can see where it is heading.


Anyways, I just live. Where society goes, it goes. If I feel like doing something, I do something.
I care more about society than myself, that's the ironic part of all of this, I am trying to do what is good for people and in return I get shit on literally constantly.

What I personally try to do to help is to spread love and good will among those I meet, and spread what I know is the truth where it has a chance of being received.
For me and my family, I moved out of the city and bought a house that has some land so that I can maybe be less reliant on the government if they want to try to force me to be reliant on them for everything.


But I am not kidding when I say they'll probably send me to the camps. It's looking like that's probably this is the direction this will go.


Also, interesting how literally no one has responded to my post about transmissibility and antibodies. Aren't those the single most important factors regarding being for these vaccines? And yet no one even responds?

On October 06 2021 23:44 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + i know your whole thing is anarchy but things other than the government can force people to do things. if someone tells your wife, suck my dick, or i will shoot you, you don't say, wait a minute, it's only forcing if it's federally mandated fellatio, she could always choose to get shot instead lol you are bad at analogies, a restaurant by their own volition refusing service isn't the same as raping somebody at gunpoint lol. If a restaurant puts a rule that in order to eat in there you have to suck the owners dick, I'm fine with it, don't want to suck it? then dont eat there, easy.

if someone makes you do something it's forcing

On October 06 2021 23:44 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + so in addition to forcing i feel like you don't know what de facto means either. if every employer in the country mandated vaccination (by government order for example) you would have to get it in order to have a livelihood. "nobody is forcing you to work there," yes, but if you can't work you lose everything and die even though a guy didn't kidnap you and literally inject you against your will "By government order" again... against it.

yes, business order, that's the spirit

On October 06 2021 23:44 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + okay you at last are kind of hitting on the internals of an issue the erudite Spitfiree was not quite Socratic enough to stumble upon in US has killed 6-700k right? 2017 flu killed 60k+ 1918 flu killed tens of millions which could happen again at any point, flu seasons are regularly forecast to be more or less severe. why are severe ones not accompanied by vaccination mandates/coercive suggestions at the level of corona? some states mandate meningitis vaccines for kids, only 500 people die of that every year, hmm seems fewer than 60k so obviously it's not the principle of infectious disease, it's the magnitude. (rate *of corona dead* in US is extra large due to obesity/comorbidities) my question is how many thousands of people have to be affected by an infectious disease before we surrender rights to a government that will obviously only demand further compliance? why is bareback sex not illegal except for childbearing couples? could eradicate HIV and that's just a piece of plastic, not like a vaccine why THIS one? why NOW? public health? control, and political convenience -700k reported deaths, however the more precise metric would be excess deaths compared to past years, in most countries is about 2 to 3x the reported Covid deaths, so I'd save 2M give or take. -Yes the spanish flu killed more people, in great part due to 100 years of medical advancement, so? -The flu is caued by over a dozen diferente viruses, due to the high mutability of some of these, it lasts ony a year, the meningitis shot is only is required once and is more effective. -I dont think you should surrender any right to the government, I've said that MANY times now. -Most HIV infections are through needles fwiw, but yeah lets ban non-reproductive sex, brilliant policies rofl. -Because Covid is the more dangerous virus we've seen in the last 100 years (dangerous does not equal lethal, fwiw, Ebola is way lethal but less dangerous), but I think many if not most of the government responses have been retarded... also not getting vaccinated is retarded.

-okay sure excess deaths. precise measure is to use US's actual excess deaths because US is the US not "most countries" which a basic CDC google can tell you is max 2-300k over covid deaths
-okay you finally by accident bumped into the big idea. a flu killed a lot of people a long time ago, and since then one kills a medium amount of people every so often, for example asia '57, US '09, and it always seems to make new variants, and different variants flourish year by year, almost like some kind of seasonal virus, and there's no coercion from governments or businesses to get vaccinated for it... hmmm... intredasting
-it means to ban sex, without condoms, you idiot. and why not?
you know how many people died of AIDS in the US? 700k our magic number for oh look at how serious it is
you know how less invasive a condom is than a vaccine?

On October 06 2021 23:44 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On October 06 2021 00:30 Baalim wrote: in elementary school they taught us about economics and said there are "needs" and "wants" a "want" is something that you want, which would be considered a luxury a "need" is something you need, like a job or education or food or medical care (item - colorado hospital says almost no transplants for the unvaxxed) your age is different than your personal medical history, cursory knowledge of law can explain this. there is very little precedent in the US (only relevant country) for something like this. i believe the only thing is kids need certain basic inoculations to enter public school, ones that give actual immunity to eradicated diseases and don't have the faintest side effects IN THAT POPULATION with decades of observation You dont need to eat on a specific restaurant, go to one where they accept unvaccinated people.

unvaccinated - the nigger of the world
use your own damn fountains ignorant scum

On October 06 2021 23:44 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + lot of retards who aren't Daut trying to answer me. i don't know if they have this is mexico but there is a slogan NO SHIRT, NO SHOES, NO SERVICE. you can see it on signs at businesses. my response is to ask whether something you can put on or take off ad libitum (a shirt) is analogous to a medical treatment you permanently inject into your body, or if there is some perhaps characteristic of a vaccine that makes it different than a pair of shoes how can you not get that? It's not about if you can take something on/off, a restaurant should be able to deny service if you have tattoos or refuse entry to kids etc, it doesn't mean that I agree with whatever policy they make, but I agree that they should be able to set the rules of their own property.

who the fuck are you to say what "it's" "about"

Daut said it and I was asking him

You didn't even fucking understand it

Sure a restaurant should be able to deny you service if you have a turban, if you have a Jew hat, if you're wearing a cross necklace, if you're a smoker, if you voted for the wrong person, if you're gay, if you have cancer

It's not about the fact that you need to put on a shirt in a restaurant for basic fucking decorum, or the fact that the bank can't see who you are through the ski mask, it's that the private business can do whatever they want

On October 06 2021 23:44 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + don't you run an actual factory dumbass? this is very relevant to the government shifting responsibility and blame to you to enforce its own vaccine policy. imagine you'll get hit with a fine if you let an unvaccinated person eat in your restaurant, or fail to verify they're vaccinated (this is true, now, in some jurisdictions). imagine you'll get hit with a fine if your workers aren't vaccinated. imagine one of them has a medical reason. i'm sure that gov't bureaucracy will be more than understanding not to fine you $50k while handing out corona relief loans and grants to your 9 figure super liquid competitor. (liquid means capital, not the TL network) I might have overstated, my dad owns one and given his illness I was more involved than usual running it, in fact of all the workers only 1 isn't vaccinated I've suggested giving her an ultimatum given my dad's condition and high-risk to Covid. For the 100x time, I don't support government mandates.

hey that's cool buddy, in other news, i never said you did. just so you don't feel the need to repeat yourself 100 more times so everyone knows exactly where you stand for history. let me help you out

everybody this is a RED ALERT

BAALIM does NOT SUPPORT
GOVERNMENT MANDATES
taxes - optional
driver's license - coaster for your appletini
building inspection - red tape interfering with the free market
telling companies not to dump DDT in the river - authoritarianism

thank you for listening

On October 07 2021 10:08 hiems wrote: I love how this guy keeps harping on about Norway every fookin chance he gets. LOOK AT ME GUYZ at my wealthy country that has a HIgH StaNDarD oFLiVinG hurr hurr. Seriously you have to suffer through this every thread what a dumb drone.

Get a grip. Why are you always shitting up threads and getting so triggered by stupid shit, like rikd having a green star or somebody talking about the country where they live. This is not normal behavior. I'm sorry if your life sucks but at least pick some better things to get triggered over.

On October 06 2021 22:54 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On October 06 2021 08:23 CrownRoyal wrote: There seem to be a lot of experts in the chat, I have one question which is the only reason I haven't been vaccinated. What is the point of getting it if you are healthy, not at risk, and it doesn't stop you from spreading the virus? Genuine question, not trolling just looking for education. Reduces the odds of getting it Reduces the odds of spreading it Reduces the odds of developing symptoms Reduces the odds of severe sickness Reduces the odds of death.

by saying this you suggest the vacciation is 100% safe? I just dont think we know enough yet. Also that Sweden and Denmark stopped the moderna vaccination temporarely for ppl under 30 years old (sweden) and under 18 years old (Denmark) makes me wonder. Also Japan supsended 1.6 Million doses of Moderna Vaccine because of contamination reports...

Also why you guys think that both MRNA Vaccinations (Pfizer & Moderna) are only targetting the spike Protein? Wouldnt that excessive focus on the spike protein actually lead to escape variation (mutations)?

On October 07 2021 21:47 sChOuA wrote: Show nested quote + On October 06 2021 22:54 Baalim wrote:   On October 06 2021 08:23 CrownRoyal wrote: There seem to be a lot of experts in the chat, I have one question which is the only reason I haven't been vaccinated. What is the point of getting it if you are healthy, not at risk, and it doesn't stop you from spreading the virus? Genuine question, not trolling just looking for education. Reduces the odds of getting it Reduces the odds of spreading it Reduces the odds of developing symptoms Reduces the odds of severe sickness Reduces the odds of death. by saying this you suggest the vacciation is 100% safe? I just dont think we know enough yet. Also that Sweden and Denmark stopped the moderna vaccination temporarely for ppl under 30 years old (sweden) and under 18 years old (Denmark) makes me wonder. Also Japan supsended 1.6 Million doses of Moderna Vaccine because of contamination reports... Also why you guys think that both MRNA Vaccinations (Pfizer & Moderna) are only targetting the spike Protein? Wouldnt that excessive focus on the spike protein actually lead to escape variation (mutations)?

Nothing is 100% safe but it's way better than getting COVID. As Daut said it's not a difficult problem. Just compare the people that are sick in hospitals that are a) unvaccinated with COVID, b) vaccinated with COVID, and c) sick with vaccine reactions. It's a) 95%, b) 5%, c) 0%. No matter how you crunch the numbers it's very easy to conclude the correct answer

On October 07 2021 21:47 sChOuA wrote: Show nested quote + On October 06 2021 22:54 Baalim wrote:   On October 06 2021 08:23 CrownRoyal wrote: There seem to be a lot of experts in the chat, I have one question which is the only reason I haven't been vaccinated. What is the point of getting it if you are healthy, not at risk, and it doesn't stop you from spreading the virus? Genuine question, not trolling just looking for education. Reduces the odds of getting it Reduces the odds of spreading it Reduces the odds of developing symptoms Reduces the odds of severe sickness Reduces the odds of death. by saying this you suggest the vacciation is 100% safe? I just dont think we know enough yet.

Yes, we don't know enough yet, only have a living,walking statistical excerpt of 3 Billion people. What are you talking about

On October 07 2021 18:37 Santafairy wrote: [QUOTE]On October 07 2021 18:37 Santafairy wrote: if someone makes you do something it's forcing

A private restaurant not wanting to welcome unvaccinated people is the same as someone putting a gun to your head and raping you... yes you are indeed brilliant at analogies my friend lol.

On October 06 2021 23:44 Baalim wrote: yes, business order, that's the spirit

Refusing to do business with you isnt ordering, I believe that bigot baker should be able to refuse making a cake for a gay wedding if he wants to, I also believe a restaurant should be able to refuse service to your virulent ass if they want to.

Their business their rules, dont like them? don't give them your money.

-okay sure excess deaths. precise measure is to use US's actual excess deaths because US is the US not "most countries" which a basic CDC google can tell you is max 2-300k over covid deaths

First of all, the reported Covid deaths are 700k+ in the US to date, second, also yearly deaths is a more precise indicator of the actual number than reported Covid deaths.

-okay you finally by accident bumped into the big idea. a flu killed a lot of people a long time ago, and since then one kills a medium amount of people every so often, for example asia '57, US '09, and it always seems to make new variants, and different variants flourish year by year, almost like some kind of seasonal virus, and there's no coercion from governments or businesses to get vaccinated for it... hmmm... intredasting

Some virus are dealier and contagiouis than others... hmmm. intredasting

-it means to ban sex, without condoms, you idiot. and why not? you know how many people died of AIDS in the US? 700k our magic number for oh look at how serious it is you know how less invasive a condom is than a vaccine?

your sex life must suck if you rather never have sex without a condom again than get a shot lol.

But as I told you, the main infection cause of AIDs is through needles, sharing needles is already banned but tell that to junkies, also It's unenforceable.

unvaccinated - the nigger of the world use your own damn fountains ignorant scum

Libertarian hot take, businesses should be able to impose any rules even if discrimatory and bigoted so they can quickly go bankrupt, I don't see the KKK-burger being a success despise what Loco might think haha.

I mean there are many anntivaxxers so I'm pretty sure many restaurants will welcome you with opens arms so you can find like minded individuals to share stores about the HAARP and MK Ultra

On October 06 2021 23:44 Baalim wrote: [QUOTE] lot of retards who aren't Daut trying to answer me. i don't know if they have this is mexico but there is a slogan NO SHIRT, NO SHOES, NO SERVICE. you can see it on signs at businesses. my response is to ask whether something you can put on or take off ad libitum (a shirt) is analogous to a medical treatment you permanently inject into your body, or if there is some perhaps characteristic of a vaccine that makes it different than a pair of shoes how can you not get that?

Sure a restaurant should be able to deny you service if you have a turban, if you have a Jew hat, if you're wearing a cross necklace, if you're a smoker, if you voted for the wrong person, if you're gay, if you have cancer It's not about the fact that you need to put on a shirt in a restaurant for basic fucking decorum, or the fact that the bank can't see who you are through the ski mask, it's that the private business can do whatever they want

You think a shirt is decorum, others think it requires a jacket, others no tattoos, others, not carrying deadly viruses, the business can draw the line wherever the fuck it wants.

everybody this is a RED ALERT BAALIM does NOT SUPPORT GOVERNMENT MANDATES taxes - optional driver's license - coaster for your appletini building inspection - red tape interfering with the free market telling companies not to dump DDT in the river - authoritarianism thank you for listening

Thanks for the ad, VOTE FOR ME!.

I promise extra DDT in everybody's river.

On October 07 2021 18:05 asdf2000 wrote: Also, interesting how literally no one has responded to my post about transmissibility and antibodies. Aren't those the single most important factors regarding being for these vaccines? And yet no one even responds?

For me, my honest answer is, I'm not a medical scientist - but I am a social scientist. The technical aspects of how a vaccine works is not what is relevant to me, what is relevant to me is whether there's an expert consensus recommending it, and how the statistics differ for unvaccinated people compared to vaccinated people. (Like blackjack said, if you look at hospitalizations relating to covid, they're overwhelmingly people who are not vaccinated, followed by small numbers of people who got sick despite being vaccinated, followed by a minuscule amount of people who got sick from the vaccine itself.)

I also believe man-made climate change is a real thing, even though I've never myself measured co2 levels in the atmosphere. When dealing with complex issues where I myself am not an expert, I find I consistently get the most reliable results through listening to a consensus of experts, and that this is much more reliable than myself attempting to self-educate on the issue. I also, honestly, have the impression that people who fall in the latter group (trying to become experts on every field themselves rather than listening to expert consensus) tend to be wrong more frequently than people in the former group. Much like if you were to learn poker, most people will get much better and more immediate results through examining what the top players do, than if they try to build their own knowledge from scratch. Perhaps once you've spent 10000 hours researching a topic you can claim to be an expert - but I don't have that time. I have, however, spent a 3 digit number of hours looking at graphs, statistics, and reading expert opinions. (I even read the entirety of Mortensen's 'off-guardian link' to see whether I thought the arguments presented there made sense. In that case though, I saw an extremely selective data selection attempting to establish the points they were trying to make - like comparing Sweden and UK instead of Sweden and Norway when examining how lockdowns influenced spread and deaths.)

(A quick google search told me that there are 9.2 million doctors in the world. Even if 100000 of them were/are negative towards the vaccine, the consensus would still be overwhelmingly in favor of it - individual dissenting voices are essentially irrelevant to me. The doctors I know myself are very, very strongly in favor of getting vaccinated.)

Yeah, that's the thing with a lot of conspiracy theories. The ones that I don't agree with and get me labeled as a naive sheeple tend to be the ones that completely defy common sense. There's very little interest in the conspiracy between Putin/Trump to seal a 500 billion dollar deal to grab fossil fuels under the arctic. This one is not unbelievable because it's consistent with what's been happening up to the present day, and i've noticed people who beleive this kind of conspiracy dont label others a sheep. It's possibly the worst conspiracy against the public ever committed, but won't generate much interest because it lacks something exciting like Fema camps or lizard people.

On October 08 2021 08:20 Liquid`Drone wrote: Show nested quote + On October 07 2021 18:05 asdf2000 wrote: Also, interesting how literally no one has responded to my post about transmissibility and antibodies. Aren't those the single most important factors regarding being for these vaccines? And yet no one even responds? For me, my honest answer is, I'm not a medical scientist - but I am a social scientist.

Lmao

On October 07 2021 22:09 blackjacki2 wrote: Show nested quote + On October 07 2021 21:47 sChOuA wrote:   On October 06 2021 22:54 Baalim wrote:   On October 06 2021 08:23 CrownRoyal wrote: There seem to be a lot of experts in the chat, I have one question which is the only reason I haven't been vaccinated. What is the point of getting it if you are healthy, not at risk, and it doesn't stop you from spreading the virus? Genuine question, not trolling just looking for education. Reduces the odds of getting it Reduces the odds of spreading it Reduces the odds of developing symptoms Reduces the odds of severe sickness Reduces the odds of death. by saying this you suggest the vacciation is 100% safe? I just dont think we know enough yet. Also that Sweden and Denmark stopped the moderna vaccination temporarely for ppl under 30 years old (sweden) and under 18 years old (Denmark) makes me wonder. Also Japan supsended 1.6 Million doses of Moderna Vaccine because of contamination reports... Also why you guys think that both MRNA Vaccinations (Pfizer & Moderna) are only targetting the spike Protein? Wouldnt that excessive focus on the spike protein actually lead to escape variation (mutations)? Nothing is 100% safe but it's way better than getting COVID. As Daut said it's not a difficult problem. Just compare the people that are sick in hospitals that are a) unvaccinated with COVID, b) vaccinated with COVID, and c) sick with vaccine reactions. It's a) 95%, b) 5%, c) 0%. No matter how you crunch the numbers it's very easy to conclude the correct answer

that is a very general answer you cant compare a 20 years old with an 80 years old.
Like i said before the risk group should definitely get the vaccination but for all the others i'm not sold yet at all.

For my Group age here in Switzerland (30-39) my chances to die of COVID is around 0.009% - chances to be hospitalized is like 0.3% - however these numberes are only from the known cases - i would argue that many in my group age are not detected. Furthermore im healthyd and have no known illness (just got completely checked like 2 mnth ago). So probably my chances of getting hospitalized is 0.1% or less and dying even lower.

So looking at those numberes the Vaccination should be very very secure and i'm not sold on that and about the transmission we have talked already.

Can you please explain why in my specific situation it is "way better" to get vaccinated ?

Also no one answered to my message that the MRNA only target the spike protein (which is around 12-15% of the whole genom), you have no opinion about this ?

wow, unbelievable

so let me make sure i understand this here

you'll strongly argue your positions to the point of disparaging people who disagree with them and supporting policies that marginalize those people

and yet when I actually directly engage you with provable facts I either get ignored or I get told "im not a scientist" "your beliefs are too far fetched" "blah blah blah"


SHAME


edit:

seriously it's unbelievable and despicable. im not coming back here, good luck.

On October 08 2021 02:43 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On October 07 2021 18:37 Santafairy wrote: [QUOTE]On October 07 2021 18:37 Santafairy wrote: if someone makes you do something it's forcing A private restaurant not wanting to welcome unvaccinated people is the same as someone putting a gun to your head and raping you... yes you are indeed brilliant at analogies my friend lol.

talking to your obtuse ass is feeling like rape

On October 08 2021 02:43 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On October 06 2021 23:44 Baalim wrote: yes, business order, that's the spirit Refusing to do business with you isnt ordering, I believe that bigot baker should be able to refuse making a cake for a gay wedding if he wants to, I also believe a restaurant should be able to refuse service to your virulent ass if they want to. Their business their rules, dont like them? don't give them your money.

doctor doctor yes is this the emergency room? yes my father in his weak condition needs immediate care, we're just traveling through here, i don't even know if you're in our insurance network but he needs help right away. oh what? you claim you "don't treat filthy mexspicans?" well it seems like an outmoded attitude but i support your right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. the free market will ultimately decide the fate of your admissions policies obviously. the anarcho capitalist dogma decrees it.

On October 08 2021 02:43 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + -okay sure excess deaths. precise measure is to use US's actual excess deaths because US is the US not "most countries" which a basic CDC google can tell you is max 2-300k over covid deaths First of all, the reported Covid deaths are 700k+ in the US to date, second, also yearly deaths is a more precise indicator of the actual number than reported Covid deaths.

yes you fucking idiot, and excess deaths are 2-300k above that, not 2 million which you just pulled out of your ass

On October 08 2021 02:43 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + -okay you finally by accident bumped into the big idea. a flu killed a lot of people a long time ago, and since then one kills a medium amount of people every so often, for example asia '57, US '09, and it always seems to make new variants, and different variants flourish year by year, almost like some kind of seasonal virus, and there's no coercion from governments or businesses to get vaccinated for it... hmmm... intredasting Some virus are dealier and contagiouis than others... hmmm. intredasting   -it means to ban sex, without condoms, you idiot. and why not? you know how many people died of AIDS in the US? 700k our magic number for oh look at how serious it is you know how less invasive a condom is than a vaccine? your sex life must suck if you rather never have sex without a condom again than get a shot lol.

you haven't understood something, or rather you might not have understood anything at all so i'll just explain slower in the futile hope you've learned to read. it is less invasive for someone to force you to wear a condom always (never killed anyone as far as I know, but I look forward to the latex allergy inquiry I hope you're smart enough to make) or for example a SEAT BELT than it is for the government to demand you inject things in your body. that was the point

you say you're against government mandates, yet if i mention meningitis it's "oh it's just once, it's really safe." so what's up, you're against government mandates, except ones that have been grandfathered in? or why aren't you as vocal telling us you're as strongly against mandatory vaccination of children against meningitis, as you are against mandatory vaccination of people by covid? perhaps there's some part of you deep down that agrees with asdf2000? you haven't answered sChOuA do you think it's safe? you have some demons to wrestle with still it looks like

okay so back to the point. meningitis vaccine, seems like not such a big deal for you (gov't mandated), 500 people die of it a year.

700k people died of covid. no gov't vaccine to protect them and us.

now:
clarify your position. either 1) tell me you support vaccines for meningitis that kills 500 people a year, but not covid that has killed 700k

or 2) tell me you're AGAINST government mandated meningitis vaccines of children, despite it being completely safe and effective, and then call me the anti-vaxxer. okay? asshole?

On October 08 2021 02:43 Baalim wrote: But as I told you, the main infection cause of AIDs is through needles, sharing needles is already banned but tell that to junkies, also It's unenforceable.

What jurisdiction has laws on the books against "sharing needles?"

I find it curious at any rate you suggest the government couldn't enforce a ban on people injecting themselves with needles, while apparently believing a private business could have the capability to create and enforce a mandate of people being injected with needles.

The government, even if you don't want them to exist, are inevitably in cooperation with businesses whether there are mandates or not.

Any time they vaccinate, there are records of that that don't end up being private, even in the US despite HIPAA it seems. And as far as I know forged vaccination credentials are illegal. Think about it. Some business decides to accept vaxxed only. How do they verify if someone is vaccianted? By a private sector owned, private sector developed vaccination verification system? Or a card printed out by the government? A certificate from a government health agency? Invariably the gov't. Your anarcho capitalist thought experiment bullshit is worthless.

On October 08 2021 02:43 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + unvaccinated - the nigger of the world use your own damn fountains ignorant scum Libertarian hot take, businesses should be able to impose any rules even if discrimatory and bigoted so they can quickly go bankrupt, I don't see the KKK-burger being a success despise what Loco might think haha. I mean there are many anntivaxxers so I'm pretty sure many restaurants will welcome you with opens arms so you can find like minded individuals to share stores about the HAARP and MK Ultra

see dead father above

On October 08 2021 02:43 Baalim wrote: Show nested quote + On October 06 2021 23:44 Baalim wrote: [QUOTE] lot of retards who aren't Daut trying to answer me. i don't know if they have this is mexico but there is a slogan NO SHIRT, NO SHOES, NO SERVICE. you can see it on signs at businesses. my response is to ask whether something you can put on or take off ad libitum (a shirt) is analogous to a medical treatment you permanently inject into your body, or if there is some perhaps characteristic of a vaccine that makes it different than a pair of shoes how can you not get that?   Sure a restaurant should be able to deny you service if you have a turban, if you have a Jew hat, if you're wearing a cross necklace, if you're a smoker, if you voted for the wrong person, if you're gay, if you have cancer It's not about the fact that you need to put on a shirt in a restaurant for basic fucking decorum, or the fact that the bank can't see who you are through the ski mask, it's that the private business can do whatever they want You think a shirt is decorum, others think it requires a jacket, others no tattoos, others, not carrying deadly viruses, the business can draw the line wherever the fuck it wants.

yeah some people think it's "being white"

yes because the covid vaccine stops you from carrying a deadly virus, that makes it a great option for businesses who want to be completely safe, and not be filled with a bunch of maskless risk compensators being within 1 meter of each other coughing everywhere. another great idea from Baa "The Free Market is the Only Thing Smarter Than Me" Lim

On October 08 2021 17:09 Santafairy wrote: talking to your obtuse ass is feeling like rape [/quoting] That is because you are metapohrically being raped in this conversation. [QUOTE]On October 08 2021 02:43 Baalim wrote: doctor doctor yes is this the emergency room? yes my father in his weak condition needs immediate care, we're just traveling through here, i don't even know if you're in our insurance network but he needs help right away. oh what? you claim you "don't treat filthy mexspicans?" well it seems like an outmoded attitude but i support your right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. the free market will ultimately decide the fate of your admissions policies obviously. the anarcho capitalist dogma decrees it.

Again I dont see the KKK hospital being very popular, no doctors would want to work there, people wouldnt want to go there to get treated, it would go out of business instantly, unless of course just like Loco you believe the US is briming with closet nazis lol.

So you think the only reason private hospitals don't refuse to treat minorities is because it's illegal to discriminate, damn you are truly super woke thinking institutional racism goes that deep.

yes you fucking idiot, and excess deaths are 2-300k above that, not 2 million which you just pulled out of your ass

no 2021 stats that I can find yet, but does it make a difference to your argument if were 1M or 2M?

you haven't understood something, or rather you might not have understood anything at all so i'll just explain slower in the futile hope you've learned to read. it is less invasive for someone to force you to wear a condom always (never killed anyone as far as I know, but I look forward to the latex allergy inquiry I hope you're smart enough to make) or for example a SEAT BELT than it is for the government to demand you inject things in your body. that was the point

Wrong, its way more invasive to outlaw unprotected sex than to mandate vaccination, that is why most countries have some form of vaccination mandate and not a single one outlaws unprotected sex.

you say you're against government mandates, yet if i mention meningitis it's "oh it's just once, it's really safe." so what's up, you're against government mandates, except ones that have been grandfathered in? or why aren't you as vocal telling us you're as strongly against mandatory vaccination of children against meningitis, as you are against mandatory vaccination of people by covid? perhaps there's some part of you deep down that agrees with asdf2000? you haven't answered sChOuA do you think it's safe? you have some demons to wrestle with still it looks like okay so back to the point. meningitis vaccine, seems like not such a big deal for you (gov't mandated), 500 people die of it a year. 700k people died of covid. no gov't vaccine to protect them and us. now: clarify your position. either 1) tell me you support vaccines for meningitis that kills 500 people a year, but not covid that has killed 700k or 2) tell me you're AGAINST government mandated meningitis vaccines of children, despite it being completely safe and effective, and then call me the anti-vaxxer. okay? asshole?

LOLOLOL you made a whole sarcastic post about how I've already made it painfully clear my position on vaccine mandates and here you go again like a total clown thinking I support vaccination for meningitis lol.

Aparently 100 times isn't enough for you, so here goes the 101th, I do not support government vaccination of Covid or other viruses, however its not an important issue to me since I believe everybody should get vaccinated in their own and of all government impositions I oppose this is the most benign one.

On October 08 2021 02:43 Baalim wrote: What jurisdiction has laws on the books against "sharing needles?" I find it curious at any rate you suggest the government couldn't enforce a ban on people injecting themselves with needles, while apparently believing a private business could have the capability to create and enforce a mandate of people being injected with needles. The government, even if you don't want them to exist, are inevitably in cooperation with businesses whether there are mandates or not. Any time they vaccinate, there are records of that that don't end up being private, even in the US despite HIPAA it seems. And as far as I know forged vaccination credentials are illegal. Think about it. Some business decides to accept vaxxed only. How do they verify if someone is vaccianted? By a private sector owned, private sector developed vaccination verification system? Or a card printed out by the government? A certificate from a government health agency? Invariably the gov't. Your anarcho capitalist thought experiment bullshit is worthless. Needles can only be used once by law, outlawing sharing needles between junkies is redundant since the drug is already illegal and its also unenforcable the same as the unprotected sex ban you want lol. I didn't say a business has the capability to enforce anything, I said business should be able to refuse service for whatever reason they want, vaccination among them. The business can ask for whatever proof they want for vaccination, your handwritten card from your local CVS, another kind of registry, your word, whatever.. their choice, how is that relevant? [QUOTE] yeah some people think it's "being white" yes because the covid vaccine stops you from carrying a deadly virus, that makes it a great option for businesses who want to be completely safe, and not be filled with a bunch of maskless risk compensators being within 1 meter of each other coughing everywhere. another great idea from Baa "The Free Market is the Only Thing Smarter Than Me" Lim

Being white? wtf are you talking about?

Covid vaccine reduces the odds of carrying and spreading it, businesses won't be completely safe but they will be a safer, the same as eating outdoors isn't completely safe but its better than indoors.

On October 08 2021 15:09 sChOuA wrote: that is a very general answer you cant compare a 20 years old with an 80 years old. Like i said before the risk group should definitely get the vaccination but for all the others i'm not sold yet at all. For my Group age here in Switzerland (30-39) my chances to die of COVID is around 0.009% - chances to be hospitalized is like 0.3% - however these numberes are only from the known cases - i would argue that many in my group age are not detected. Furthermore im healthyd and have no known illness (just got completely checked like 2 mnth ago). So probably my chances of getting hospitalized is 0.1% or less and dying even lower. So looking at those numberes the Vaccination should be very very secure and i'm not sold on that and about the transmission we have talked already. Can you please explain why in my specific situation it is "way better" to get vaccinated ? Also no one answered to my message that the MRNA only target the spike protein (which is around 12-15% of the whole genom), you have no opinion about this ?

0.1% > 0.0000001%

-----------------

Covid MRNA vaccines have statistically shown to be more effective than traditional Covid vacciones, thats my opinion on the spike protein subject, nobody here is qualified to talk about the specific interaction between antigens and the immune system.

If you are scared for some rason of MRNA tech, just get a traditional vaccine and stfu