Reasons to lie

Why would people (or artificial intelligence) lie? What are the reasons to lie?

Definition of lie: an intentionally false statement

Reasons to lie:

1] Cause or avoid a subjective experience in self or others:
- raise the ego (pleasure, joy etc.)
- protect the ego (fear, pain etc.)

2] Acquire information from others:
- sanity check
- reaction observance

3) Protect information

4) Motivate others for an action:
- direct benefit from their action
- indirect benefit from followed chaos/confusion/aid

5) Gain others sympathy or trust

I also think that 1] and 2] are main reasons and 3), 4) and 5) lead to 1] and 2] at the end.

What do you think? Anything I have missed here? Anything to add/change?

I'd just put the 2 core ones as :
Fear and Abnegation ( pretty sure that would qualify as the opposite of fear driven reasoning)

what are you working on?

#dontskynetmebro

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Funnily enough what Rapoza said is a huge lie in itself. He claims to do it in the interest of the other person, but he actually does not help him/her realizing what could be improved upon in his/her life. You lie to that person just so you don't get a negative reaction and that's what's convenient for you. People are never ready to hear hard truths. If they were they would already be doing something about it or accept their situation if they can't do anything about it.
If you really cared about the other person you would just say things as they are. But you are not going to do it because you would most likely get a response of resentment.

Of course humans always lie for personal gain. People who do it smartly maximize their gains and minimize the chance of being discovered (or find a convenient balance between the two for most situations). I think trying to categorize the reasons is ambitious but it's a great thing to do to better understand human behaviour.

On August 21 2016 19:18 Rapoza wrote: Most of my lies are beneficial to the ones i am lying to. Same concept applies to manipulation, but thats beyond the scope of this topic i guess.

In Edward Bernays - " Propaganda " he explains how propaganda can potentially change the world to a much better place using it beneficially to people. Too bad that was a propaganda itself and the guy manipulated the masses for the worse.

I do agree that your example isn't a good one though, but lies can push people towards better things and turn them into a fact.

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cliffs: dont lie. Not to yourself, not to others.

First of all, I really dont know anything, and its usually what comes out as "truth" when doing self inquiery, but its closer to the truth then thinking that I know something, thats for sure.

Being honest to myself in my experience is very valueable, what is the real reason why I do what I do, think what I think, feel what I feel and say what I say. What is it that I want? Usually my mind think that im shareing, giving or does things for "real" reasons, almost always tho when questioning these beliefs I either dont know why im doing what im doing or I want something, usually its attention, to be seen by others. Probaby beacuse mommy and daddy didnt give me the full attention and love that I truly, unconditionally deserve. That we all deserve as the innocent being that we truly at our core are, but that we never get and are never really gonna get from circumstances or others. In the seeing of that truth theres sort of a liberating "ahhh" now I can actually change that or atleast have the chance to do so and not the fear of the kind of "im such a horrible person" beating that the lying to oneself is trying to protect yourself from in the first place.

Shining awareness on whatever truth we can find at its core of why we act or think or feel certain ways seem to do something in itself. Being honest is very valueable, and very hard. Sounds easy "ill just be honest to myself". Harder then it looks, and what we think is almost never what it is, our actions and emotions usually tells us much more of what we believe then our thinking.


But once I'm more honest and compassionate towards myself it actually opens up the world to be compassionate, loveing and honest with others in a real sort of impulsive way.

With all this said, Im very confused in general and as I said I really dont know anything but I think atleast in my experience and on my journey, im starting to glimps that honesty seem to play a big part.

what uncanny timing! this recent podcast doesn't answer all your questions but was a nice listen. it has a lot of dan ariely (most well known behavioral economist)

http://www.npr.org/programs/ted-radio...p;f=225426662&showDate=2016-08-19

i lie to avoid stupid confrontations with my wife.

wife: "did you bet on this fight?"
me: "nope!"

or

wife "how much did you bet?"
me: "small."

edit:

so basically add, 6) to avoid any imperial entanglements.

some people respond well to blunt statements. others respond terribly. direct, honest feedback, sure, but telling a fat girl that she is fat does not necessarily fit under the 'helpful feedback enabling her to take control over her life' or whatever. I'm not gonna claim one outcome is more likely than the other cuz I think it's gonna vary a whole lot from person to person, but it's also very possible that you just ruin a friendship and make her depressed - which is not at all a good point of departure for losing weight.

I remember an ugly girl asked me whether she was ugly when we were like, 14. At first I said something like beauty is in the eye of the beholder and then she told me 'don't give me that bs, I asked you specifically cuz I wanted an honest answer. Am I ugly or not?' and then I said 'yeah'. (on IRC, don't think I could've done that irl ;D ) She said 'thanks' and logged off.

We were kinda friends before that, retrospectively I assume she kinda had a crush on me, and I thought she was a pretty cool girl, smart and reasonably funny (and this girl was genuinely really unattractive, so it's not one of those 'I just liked being next to her and looking at her smile and the enjoyment I got out of it confused me into thinking she had an interesting personality' type of things). I don't think we ever spoke again after, and instead of starting to exercise to lose weight and 'taking care of her appearance' and waiting out the teenage acne, she turned into a goth - a very short period of time after I responded honestly to her question. I really don't think it was good for her, at all, to be flat out told 'the truth'.

On August 22 2016 01:24 Liquid`Drone wrote: some people respond well to blunt statements. others respond terribly. direct, honest feedback, sure, but telling a fat girl that she is fat does not necessarily fit under the 'helpful feedback enabling her to take control over her life' or whatever. I'm not gonna claim one outcome is more likely than the other cuz I think it's gonna vary a whole lot from person to person, but it's also very possible that you just ruin a friendship and make her depressed - which is not at all a good point of departure for losing weight. I remember an ugly girl asked me whether she was ugly when we were like, 14. At first I said something like beauty is in the eye of the beholder and then she told me 'don't give me that bs, I asked you specifically cuz I wanted an honest answer. Am I ugly or not?' and then I said 'yeah'. (on IRC, don't think I could've done that irl ;D ) She said 'thanks' and logged off. We were kinda friends before that, retrospectively I assume she kinda had a crush on me, and I thought she was a pretty cool girl, smart and reasonably funny (and this girl was genuinely really unattractive, so it's not one of those 'I just liked being next to her and looking at her smile and the enjoyment I got out of it confused me into thinking she had an interesting personality' type of things). I don't think we ever spoke again after, and instead of starting to exercise to lose weight and 'taking care of her appearance' and waiting out the teenage acne, she turned into a goth - a very short period of time after I responded honestly to her question. I really don't think it was good for her, at all, to be flat out told 'the truth'.

And maybe it was the best thing that ever happened to her, how can you possibly know?

it's your fault drone. you messed up that girl's life.

The reasons people lie are many, and varied. Usually when people lie they dont realize they are lying, or they convince themselves that its right to lie for some noble reason.

I will admit that i find it very difficult to tell harsh truths to myself and to close friends. Socrates said the unexamined life is not worth living, but i am not so sure, i know people who have been tortured, murdered and had their careers ruined simply because they couldnt stop being honest with themselves. Socrates was one of those crazy dudes who didnt seem to mind that

Socrates also was 100x more intelligent than the average joe.

there is no absolute answer imo

some people have the strength to benefit from being told they are fat/ugly/annoying/etc

some people are too fragile to hear such things and perhaps need to realize other truths first

@lucky331: Basically you protected information (case 3) in order to motivate the other (case 4) to not discuss this topic with you any more in order to avoid conflict or don't lose precious time (case 1).

@Stroggoz: "Usually when people lie they dont realize they are lying". This by definition is not a lie. It's just presenting/giving false information (for example: a completely mad man talking crazy shit is not a liar, he is just mad).

About the fat/ugly girl dilemma, I agree with Smuft - one needs to be balanced and have different approaches depending on the person involved. If there is a possibility to minimize the impact of the truth (a small lie so to say, for example "You are not *that* fat, but it would be good for you to lose some weight" ) in order not to hurt the other person much, then this would be a balanced approach. In the case, when we are faced with direct "yes or no"/"ugly or not" scenario, then the other person expect us to be direct with him (he is ready to hear the truth) and telling the truth would probably be the better and more ethical choice.

On August 22 2016 01:33 lucky331 wrote: it's your fault drone. you messed up that girl's life.

the way I feel is basically yeah to the second part and no to the first. She asked and specified that she wanted an honest answer, so it's her fault. I don't think I really did anything wrong - I definitely wasn't trying to be a jerk. I was however ignorant of how much words can hurt people, and I genuinely do believe that her self-appreciation took a serious hit that day, in a way that probably largely 'messed up' her later teenage years.

I actually just facebooked her cuz this thread made me remember her - she's still goth (and has been going strong for the past 17 years or so), but also married and seems to have a bunch of chill and nerdy friends. Hooray.

I am a Seeker of Truth. I am true to myself and others and will always be. Therefore, i do not lie.

On August 22 2016 14:30 JohnnyBologna wrote: I am a Seeker of Truth. I am true to myself and others and will always be. Therefore, i do not lie.

You need to work on ur lieing