Just saying... (Poll)

why are you posting basically the same poll you did 4 months ago?

http://www.liquidpoker.net/blog/viewblog.php?id=1090927

This issue makes me lose faith in humanity.

answer my question bitch

sorry that was too aggressive

but don't you think from the other poll's results it's pretty clear most people here will agree that your idea should be allowed?

Why do ^u have truck crash life as ur sig?

http://www.liquidpoker.net/blog/viewblog.php?id=972812

from 3rd reply

What does a man with two penises say when his tailor asks him if he dresses to the right or the left?

there are times i'd consider going. most of the time i am able to tell myself life is worth living but some days its harder

On January 21 2014 19:34 JosephCalgary wrote: This issue makes me lose faith in humanity.

Part of the problem is that you have some faith left.

loco still spewing

As for your idea, you are getting ripped off. Organs are worth a lot of money. Selling your organs is worth anywhere between low $200k-2million. If people did that, they should have the money sent to family or donated to charity.

On January 22 2014 00:45 Highcard wrote: loco still spewing As for your idea, you are getting ripped off. Organs are worth a lot of money. Selling your organs is worth anywhere between low $200k-2million. If people did that, they should have the money sent to family or donated to charity.

yup, you're probably the one wanting to set these companies up and get all the moneys!

On January 22 2014 00:45 Highcard wrote: loco still spewing As for your idea, you are getting ripped off. Organs are worth a lot of money. Selling your organs is worth anywhere between low $200k-2million. If people did that, they should have the money sent to family or donated to charity.

brb googling "how to sell your organs"

“Faith is a myth and beliefs shift like mists on the shore; thoughts vanish; words, once pronounced, die; and the memory of yesterday is as shadowy as the hope of to-morrow.... In this world — as I have known it — we are made to suffer without the shadow of a reason, of a cause or of guilt.... There is no morality, no knowledge and no hope; there is only the consciousness of ourselves which drives us about a world that... is always but a vain and floating appearance.... A moment, a twinkling of an eye and nothing remains — but a clot of mud, of cold mud, of dead mud cast into black space, rolling around an extinguished sun. Nothing. Neither thought, nor sound, nor soul. Nothing.” - Joseph Conrad

Your philosophy is some cry baby bitch shit, you could easily flip the script and live a life of change and variety instead. Granted, it is easier to slowly shrink out of existence, but it is more fun to fuck the universe 'til death.

No temples of death, hell no.

These places would affect many people and make misery for many.

I can see emo/heavyrock teenagers thinking my tamagotchi run out of batteries so this is like time to die, and making agony for parents friends relatives.

Also it means insta criminality as organs are valuable. People would start to die "because they wanted to" but got killed for organs.

On January 22 2014 09:29 Rande wrote: I can see emo/heavyrock teenagers thinking my tamagotchi run out of batteries so this is like time to die, and making agony for parents friends relatives.

Am I the only person that thinks the world would be a better place without all these whiny 'poor-me!' idiots?

Is Joseph the same guy who has been saying for months and months now that he wants to kill himself, but lacks the fortitude to do it?

Get busy living or get busy dying.

On January 22 2014 10:15 devon06atX wrote: Show nested quote + On January 22 2014 09:29 Rande wrote: I can see emo/heavyrock teenagers thinking my tamagotchi run out of batteries so this is like time to die, and making agony for parents friends relatives. Get busy living or get busy dying.

Thx Morgan Freeman

This institution would be the beginning of the end of religion. There would strongholds of religion across the world but they would dwindle with time. The religious don't even let old people with terminal illnesses kill themselves to avoid unbelievable unbearable forever length lasting deaths.

On January 22 2014 13:28 JosephCalgary wrote: Show nested quote + On January 22 2014 10:15 devon06atX wrote:   On January 22 2014 09:29 Rande wrote: I can see emo/heavyrock teenagers thinking my tamagotchi run out of batteries so this is like time to die, and making agony for parents friends relatives. Get busy living or get busy dying. Thx Morgan Freeman

I was hoping you picked up on that shawshank reference

On January 22 2014 09:26 2primenumbers wrote: Your philosophy is some cry baby bitch shit, you could easily flip the script and live a life of change and variety instead. Granted, it is easier to slowly shrink out of existence, but it is more fun to fuck the universe 'til death.

Why don't you tell me, oh wise one, how I could flip the script exactly? You gonna link me to a Tony Robbins seminar? You strike me as that kind of dullard.

I was reading almost this same shit today from someone who works at Walmart. Very believable. There's nothing great about your life, who are you kidding. It's just the same old empty vulgar hedonism that nearly everyone lives in a consumer-capitalist society. Change and variety is what you value because it effectively distracts you from the emptiness of life. It's not great, but it works, except when it doesn't, and then you need to numb your senses. You're conditioned to think positively about life because society benefits from having slaves instead of thinkers, not because you've spent your time contemplating and analyzing it, yet here you are acting self-actualized or some shit. You are so evidently blinkered you'll dismiss the thoughts of men of genius, Nobel Prize laureates because it isn't in line with the scam of modern positive thinking, it really is quite sad to see. Using the words "cry baby bitch shit" to describe pessimistic philosophy discredits you instantly. You're in no place to critique it, your reckless "this world is mine" and "we can achieve anything we want" attitude is the most juvenile and trite attitude there is.

The truth about your life:

"Every time a man is begotten and born, the clock of human life is wound up anew to repeat once more its same old tune that has already been played innumerable times, movement by movement and measure by measure, with insignificant variations." - Arthur Schopenhauer

whats wrong with hedonism? Why do you think we are here? To engage in activities that flood our brains with dopamine serotonin and norepinephrine and give us pleasure and happiness. Thats it bud that is the point of a 3D existence. stop acting emo and enjoy the gift of life. Better than nothing.

Religion is already dying don't think death temples are necessary (nor would they really have much affect on religion anyways why would they?)

and whats up OP you wanna die or something? Sack up bro

seriously before you die at least try an opiate addiction or something it will at least numb the pain (emotional and physical) and give you something to look forward to and enjoy each day. I've been there and been back. Only recommend it though if your other option truly is suicide

Bah I have schizophrenia. It is unimaginable how bad things can get with schizophrenia. Easily have a knife at your wrist thinking its your only good option. I actually tried to meet you for heroine so I could OD on it like a year ago. I couldn't walk into a movie theatre at that time in my life due to schizophrenia. I tried to kill myself with chloroform recently which failed. I passed out then woke up breathing in horrible smell. I constantly threw up everything for the next 24 hours. Opiates are hard to find. I live with my family and they would interfere with my drug use. I believe that these organ harvesting places also should have a beau of drugs to try before you die. Like heroin. Also have prostitutes. Its the kind of institution I'd like to be part of. Ecstasy and prostitutes make for a wonderful time. And I support wonderful times.

On January 23 2014 02:37 traxamillion wrote: whats wrong with hedonism? Why do you think we are here? To engage in activities that flood our brains with dopamine serotonin and norepinephrine and give us pleasure and happiness. Thats it bud that is the point of a 3D existence. stop acting emo and enjoy the gift of life. Better than nothing. Religion is already dying don't think death temples are necessary (nor would they really have much affect on religion anyways why would they?) and whats up OP you wanna die or something? Sack up bro

Why do I think we are here? Well, Wittgenstein put it like this: "I don't know why we are here, but I'm pretty sure it isn't in order to enjoy ourselves." Or again, Kierkegaard: "Listen to the cry of a woman in labor at the hour of giving birth - look at the dying man's struggle at his last extremity, and then tell me whether something that begins and ends thus could be intended for enjoyment." Life is not a gift, this is pro-life nonsense. You may as well go stand in front of an abortion clinic with a sign if that's the best you can come with. "Human existence, far from possessing the character of a gift, has altogether that of a contracted debt, whose collection appears in the shape of the pressing necessities, tormenting wishes, and endless distresses caused by that existence. To the payment of this debt, as a rule, the whole life-time is devoted; but thereby only the interest is paid; death pays the principal. — And when was this debt contracted?" - Schopenhauer

Engaging in activities that flood our brains with these chemicals was "intended" by evolution for us to reproduce. If that's all you want to do with your life, you're basically playing into your own dumb programming, which intends you to be a slave that serves the replication process of your DNA and nothing else. The Buddha or the Stoics for instance lived differently - they sought freedom and tranquility and saw the ceaseless chasing programmed into us as an obstacle to that. There's nothing emo about any of this by the way, that's a false association coming from your own ignorance of philosophic thought. 'Emos' are only concerned with themselves and they don't like their lives because they don't like themselves - it is purely subjective teen angst. Philosophical thought is concerned with analysis and objectivity. Unlike the former, it is an intellectual pursuit, you understand?


I'm not saying hedonism is wrong. There isn't just one kind of hedonism. But I've personally grown to know vulgar hedonism is empty through my own experience. Pascal said: "The only thing which consoles us for our miseries is diversion, and yet this is the greatest of our miseries. For it is this which principally hinders us from reflecting upon ourselves and which makes us insensibly ruin ourselves. Without this [diversions] we should be in a state of weariness, and this weariness would spur us to seek a more solid means of escaping from it. But diversion amuses us, and leads us unconsciously to death."

"Diversion.--As men are not able to fight against death, misery, ignorance, they have taken it into their heads, in order to be happy, not to think of them at all. "

Schopenhauer said:

"The ceaseless efforts to banish suffering achieve nothing more than a change in its form. This is essentially want, lack, care for the maintenance of life. If, which is very difficult, we have succeeded in removing pain in this form, it at once appears on the scene in a thousand others, varying according to age and circumstances, such as sexual impulse, passionate love, jealousy, envy, hatred, anxiety, ambition, avarice, sickness, and so on. Finally, if it cannot find entry in any other shape, it comes in the sad, grey garment of weariness, satiety, and boredom, against which many different attempts are made. Even if we ultimately succeed in driving these away, it will hardly be done without letting pain in again in one of the previous forms, and thus starting the dance once more at the beginning; for every human life is tossed backwards and forwards between pain and boredom.

All satisfaction, or what is commonly called happiness, is really and essentially always negative only, and never positive. It is not a gratification which comes to us originally and of itself, but it must always be the satisfaction of a wish. For desire, that is to say, want [or will], is the precedent condition of every pleasure; but with the satisfaction, the desire and therefore the pleasure cease; and so the satisfaction or gratification can never be more than deliverance from a pain, from a want."


Nietzsche had another conviction and saw suffering as a great teacher. He would see someone who is always trying to enjoy himself as a chump. Suffering is necessary to cultivate character for him: "To those human beings who are of any concern to me I wish suffering, desolation, sickness, ill-treatment, indignities - I wish that they should not remain unfamiliar with profound self-contempt, the torture of self-mistrust, the wretchedness of the vanquished: I have no pity for them, because I wish them the only thing that can prove today whether one is worth anything or not - that one endures." So, there are various critiques but I lean towards the unsatisfactory nature of it as my main one.

Loco crushing this forum

This really sums it up:

The only thing which consoles us for our miseries is diversion, and yet this is the greatest of our miseries. For it is this which principally hinders us from reflecting upon ourselves and which makes us insensibly ruin ourselves.

You're just a mirror, it is right there in his statement, "Doing stuff stops us from looking at ourselves and that makes us ruin ourselves." How wonderful a statement, it is very true. Thing is, I am not afraid of "ruining ourselves (myself)" because I was not perfect anyway.

The whole point of being life-positive is to get over nostalgic self-worship and realize that in order to grow you must break and destroy what in your self is old and no longer serving you or your chosen mission. All living philosophies accept the natural pain that comes with change and evolution, the natural pain that comes with the cutting away of the old habits and patterns which no longer serve. Your pessimistic heroes simply imply that you should settle for the pain of decay, forever existing in an idly-narcissistic slump of self-repeating waste.

Fact is, the pain is going to come whether you sit and rot or go and grow. That is the ultimate lesson which the strong acknowledge and position themselves to be able to overcome in charting the course of their chosen mission.

And that, Loco, is flipping the script.

It just seems like you view life and existence as intrinsically bad Loco. I agree that there is more to life than pleasure etc. but I also believe that is a big part of why we exist in this state and there are unique experiences in this life to enjoy. I believe in reincarnation and higher states of consciousness and existence and that is the real point of this life. To enjoy some things but also to grow. Love is the most important thing. Love yourself and others and strive to make this world a better place. Die reflect on how you did and come back to do it again.

I truly don't see what is bad about this life. Sometimes we suffer but that does not outweigh the good we experience. Absolute nothingness is the worst horror i can imagine.

Calgary Schizophrenia is tough. Take your medication and hope that medicine keeps advancing to where you can be more effectively treated. You have a family who loves you so seek comfort in that. Find what makes you happy and take solace in that you are a small organism living in the blink of an eye on the surface of a rock hurtling through space and that ultimately nothing matters

On January 23 2014 23:41 2primenumbers wrote: This really sums it up: Show nested quote + The only thing which consoles us for our miseries is diversion, and yet this is the greatest of our miseries. For it is this which principally hinders us from reflecting upon ourselves and which makes us insensibly ruin ourselves. You're just a mirror, it is right there in his statement, "Doing stuff stops us from looking at ourselves and that makes us ruin ourselves." How wonderful a statement, it is very true. Thing is, I am not afraid of "ruining ourselves (myself)" because I was not perfect anyway. The whole point of being life-positive is to get over nostalgic self-worship and realize that in order to grow you must break and destroy what in your self is old and no longer serving you or your chosen mission. All living philosophies accept the natural pain that comes with change and evolution, the natural pain that comes with the cutting away of the old habits and patterns which no longer serve. Your pessimistic heroes simply imply that you should settle for the pain of decay, forever existing in an idly-narcissistic slump of self-repeating waste. Fact is, the pain is going to come whether you sit and rot or go and grow. That is the ultimate lesson which the strong acknowledge and position themselves to be able to overcome in charting the course of their chosen mission. And that, Loco, is flipping the script.

ok i like to read such an optimistic post,

so what is your chosen mission, and what specific actions are you taking in order to chart the course

Pretty easy to obtain this drug...not so easy drinking it. Lots of money to be made selling it to people like you.

On January 24 2014 14:46 Romm3l wrote: Show nested quote + On January 23 2014 23:41 2primenumbers wrote: This really sums it up:   The only thing which consoles us for our miseries is diversion, and yet this is the greatest of our miseries. For it is this which principally hinders us from reflecting upon ourselves and which makes us insensibly ruin ourselves. You're just a mirror, it is right there in his statement, "Doing stuff stops us from looking at ourselves and that makes us ruin ourselves." How wonderful a statement, it is very true. Thing is, I am not afraid of "ruining ourselves (myself)" because I was not perfect anyway. The whole point of being life-positive is to get over nostalgic self-worship and realize that in order to grow you must break and destroy what in your self is old and no longer serving you or your chosen mission. All living philosophies accept the natural pain that comes with change and evolution, the natural pain that comes with the cutting away of the old habits and patterns which no longer serve. Your pessimistic heroes simply imply that you should settle for the pain of decay, forever existing in an idly-narcissistic slump of self-repeating waste. Fact is, the pain is going to come whether you sit and rot or go and grow. That is the ultimate lesson which the strong acknowledge and position themselves to be able to overcome in charting the course of their chosen mission. And that, Loco, is flipping the script. ok i like to read such an optimistic post, so what is your chosen mission, and what specific actions are you taking in order to chart the course

I choose to work on myself, getting my body and mind growing toward a healthy trajectory. One specific action I take is to consistently work to improve my breath. It really opens a lot of doors.

thats a disappointingly vague and effortless reply. im not convinced you have flipped any scripts

On January 23 2014 11:55 Loco wrote: Show nested quote + On January 23 2014 02:37 traxamillion wrote: whats wrong with hedonism? Why do you think we are here? To engage in activities that flood our brains with dopamine serotonin and norepinephrine and give us pleasure and happiness. Thats it bud that is the point of a 3D existence. stop acting emo and enjoy the gift of life. Better than nothing. Religion is already dying don't think death temples are necessary (nor would they really have much affect on religion anyways why would they?) and whats up OP you wanna die or something? Sack up bro Why do I think we are here? Well, Wittgenstein put it like this: "I don't know why we are here, but I'm pretty sure it isn't in order to enjoy ourselves." Or again, Kierkegaard: "Listen to the cry of a woman in labor at the hour of giving birth - look at the dying man's struggle at his last extremity, and then tell me whether something that begins and ends thus could be intended for enjoyment." Life is not a gift, this is pro-life nonsense. You may as well go stand in front of an abortion clinic with a sign if that's the best you can come with. "Human existence, far from possessing the character of a gift, has altogether that of a contracted debt, whose collection appears in the shape of the pressing necessities, tormenting wishes, and endless distresses caused by that existence. To the payment of this debt, as a rule, the whole life-time is devoted; but thereby only the interest is paid; death pays the principal. — And when was this debt contracted?" - Schopenhauer Engaging in activities that flood our brains with these chemicals was "intended" by evolution for us to reproduce. If that's all you want to do with your life, you're basically playing into your own dumb programming, which intends you to be a slave that serves the replication process of your DNA and nothing else. The Buddha or the Stoics for instance lived differently - they sought freedom and tranquility and saw the ceaseless chasing programmed into us as an obstacle to that. There's nothing emo about any of this by the way, that's a false association coming from your own ignorance of philosophic thought. 'Emos' are only concerned with themselves and they don't like their lives because they don't like themselves - it is purely subjective teen angst. Philosophical thought is concerned with analysis and objectivity. Unlike the former, it is an intellectual pursuit, you understand? I'm not saying hedonism is wrong. There isn't just one kind of hedonism. But I've personally grown to know vulgar hedonism is empty through my own experience. Pascal said: "The only thing which consoles us for our miseries is diversion, and yet this is the greatest of our miseries. For it is this which principally hinders us from reflecting upon ourselves and which makes us insensibly ruin ourselves. Without this [diversions] we should be in a state of weariness, and this weariness would spur us to seek a more solid means of escaping from it. But diversion amuses us, and leads us unconsciously to death." "Diversion.--As men are not able to fight against death, misery, ignorance, they have taken it into their heads, in order to be happy, not to think of them at all. " Schopenhauer said: "The ceaseless efforts to banish suffering achieve nothing more than a change in its form. This is essentially want, lack, care for the maintenance of life. If, which is very difficult, we have succeeded in removing pain in this form, it at once appears on the scene in a thousand others, varying according to age and circumstances, such as sexual impulse, passionate love, jealousy, envy, hatred, anxiety, ambition, avarice, sickness, and so on. Finally, if it cannot find entry in any other shape, it comes in the sad, grey garment of weariness, satiety, and boredom, against which many different attempts are made. Even if we ultimately succeed in driving these away, it will hardly be done without letting pain in again in one of the previous forms, and thus starting the dance once more at the beginning; for every human life is tossed backwards and forwards between pain and boredom. All satisfaction, or what is commonly called happiness, is really and essentially always negative only, and never positive. It is not a gratification which comes to us originally and of itself, but it must always be the satisfaction of a wish. For desire, that is to say, want [or will], is the precedent condition of every pleasure; but with the satisfaction, the desire and therefore the pleasure cease; and so the satisfaction or gratification can never be more than deliverance from a pain, from a want." Nietzsche had another conviction and saw suffering as a great teacher. He would see someone who is always trying to enjoy himself as a chump. Suffering is necessary to cultivate character for him: "To those human beings who are of any concern to me I wish suffering, desolation, sickness, ill-treatment, indignities - I wish that they should not remain unfamiliar with profound self-contempt, the torture of self-mistrust, the wretchedness of the vanquished: I have no pity for them, because I wish them the only thing that can prove today whether one is worth anything or not - that one endures." So, there are various critiques but I lean towards the unsatisfactory nature of it as my main one.

I think the Schopehauer quote u put in is completely spot on, about happiness always being negative, just gratification from want, and temporary since the good feeling turns to boredom or a new want. "for every human life is tossed backwards and forwards between pain and boredom." this is a ridic sentence.

what im not convinced about is the link between that and the logical conclusion that the right way to respond to this kind of realisation is to try and 'step above' our humanness and become buddhists or ascetics or stoics and live free of our programming. sounds amazing in theory but can it actually work. can it lead to a better life and how can you empirically tell?

is it possible for there to be some 'middle way' of living where you reprogram yourself to at least not fall into the most basic traps of infinite wanting and desire while living in a culture which positively encourages consumption and status, and be free from at least some of it - but allow yourself to indulge your humanness and natural wants in more sustainable ways, where you only let yourself want the things you can reasonably expect to get, and somehow learn to enjoy the process of striving in itself and not just for the result (similar to the journey vs destination idea i saw an an alan watts youtube video which you're no doubt familiar with)

lastly is it possible some areas you strive for are better for others and does there exist some baseline level of satisfaction and happiness? can you then choose to strive to achieve wants in areas which will increase your longterm baseline and reprogram yourself only to erase the existence of want in areas that don't serve you in the longer term

On January 25 2014 09:51 Romm3l wrote: thats a disappointingly vague and effortless reply. im not convinced you have flipped any scripts

You're the only one who can convince yourself of anything, I just handed you the master keys ^^

On January 25 2014 10:21 Romm3l wrote: Show nested quote + On January 23 2014 11:55 Loco wrote:   On January 23 2014 02:37 traxamillion wrote: whats wrong with hedonism? Why do you think we are here? To engage in activities that flood our brains with dopamine serotonin and norepinephrine and give us pleasure and happiness. Thats it bud that is the point of a 3D existence. stop acting emo and enjoy the gift of life. Better than nothing. Religion is already dying don't think death temples are necessary (nor would they really have much affect on religion anyways why would they?) and whats up OP you wanna die or something? Sack up bro Why do I think we are here? Well, Wittgenstein put it like this: "I don't know why we are here, but I'm pretty sure it isn't in order to enjoy ourselves." Or again, Kierkegaard: "Listen to the cry of a woman in labor at the hour of giving birth - look at the dying man's struggle at his last extremity, and then tell me whether something that begins and ends thus could be intended for enjoyment." Life is not a gift, this is pro-life nonsense. You may as well go stand in front of an abortion clinic with a sign if that's the best you can come with. "Human existence, far from possessing the character of a gift, has altogether that of a contracted debt, whose collection appears in the shape of the pressing necessities, tormenting wishes, and endless distresses caused by that existence. To the payment of this debt, as a rule, the whole life-time is devoted; but thereby only the interest is paid; death pays the principal. — And when was this debt contracted?" - Schopenhauer Engaging in activities that flood our brains with these chemicals was "intended" by evolution for us to reproduce. If that's all you want to do with your life, you're basically playing into your own dumb programming, which intends you to be a slave that serves the replication process of your DNA and nothing else. The Buddha or the Stoics for instance lived differently - they sought freedom and tranquility and saw the ceaseless chasing programmed into us as an obstacle to that. There's nothing emo about any of this by the way, that's a false association coming from your own ignorance of philosophic thought. 'Emos' are only concerned with themselves and they don't like their lives because they don't like themselves - it is purely subjective teen angst. Philosophical thought is concerned with analysis and objectivity. Unlike the former, it is an intellectual pursuit, you understand? I'm not saying hedonism is wrong. There isn't just one kind of hedonism. But I've personally grown to know vulgar hedonism is empty through my own experience. Pascal said: "The only thing which consoles us for our miseries is diversion, and yet this is the greatest of our miseries. For it is this which principally hinders us from reflecting upon ourselves and which makes us insensibly ruin ourselves. Without this [diversions] we should be in a state of weariness, and this weariness would spur us to seek a more solid means of escaping from it. But diversion amuses us, and leads us unconsciously to death." "Diversion.--As men are not able to fight against death, misery, ignorance, they have taken it into their heads, in order to be happy, not to think of them at all. " Schopenhauer said: "The ceaseless efforts to banish suffering achieve nothing more than a change in its form. This is essentially want, lack, care for the maintenance of life. If, which is very difficult, we have succeeded in removing pain in this form, it at once appears on the scene in a thousand others, varying according to age and circumstances, such as sexual impulse, passionate love, jealousy, envy, hatred, anxiety, ambition, avarice, sickness, and so on. Finally, if it cannot find entry in any other shape, it comes in the sad, grey garment of weariness, satiety, and boredom, against which many different attempts are made. Even if we ultimately succeed in driving these away, it will hardly be done without letting pain in again in one of the previous forms, and thus starting the dance once more at the beginning; for every human life is tossed backwards and forwards between pain and boredom. All satisfaction, or what is commonly called happiness, is really and essentially always negative only, and never positive. It is not a gratification which comes to us originally and of itself, but it must always be the satisfaction of a wish. For desire, that is to say, want [or will], is the precedent condition of every pleasure; but with the satisfaction, the desire and therefore the pleasure cease; and so the satisfaction or gratification can never be more than deliverance from a pain, from a want." Nietzsche had another conviction and saw suffering as a great teacher. He would see someone who is always trying to enjoy himself as a chump. Suffering is necessary to cultivate character for him: "To those human beings who are of any concern to me I wish suffering, desolation, sickness, ill-treatment, indignities - I wish that they should not remain unfamiliar with profound self-contempt, the torture of self-mistrust, the wretchedness of the vanquished: I have no pity for them, because I wish them the only thing that can prove today whether one is worth anything or not - that one endures." So, there are various critiques but I lean towards the unsatisfactory nature of it as my main one. I think the Schopehauer quote u put in is completely spot on, about happiness always being negative, just gratification from want, and temporary since the good feeling turns to boredom or a new want. "for every human life is tossed backwards and forwards between pain and boredom." this is a ridic sentence. what im not convinced about is the link between that and the logical conclusion that the right way to respond to this kind of realisation is to try and 'step above' our humanness and become buddhists or ascetics or stoics and live free of our programming. sounds amazing in theory but can it actually work. can it lead to a better life and how can you empirically tell? is it possible for there to be some 'middle way' of living where you reprogram yourself to at least not fall into the most basic traps of infinite wanting and desire while living in a culture which positively encourages consumption and status, and be free from at least some of it - but allow yourself to indulge your humanness and natural wants in more sustainable ways, where you only let yourself want the things you can reasonably expect to get, and somehow learn to enjoy the process of striving in itself and not just for the result (similar to the journey vs destination idea i saw an an alan watts youtube video which you're no doubt familiar with) lastly is it possible some areas you strive for are better for others and does there exist some baseline level of satisfaction and happiness? can you then choose to strive to achieve wants in areas which will increase your longterm baseline and reprogram yourself only to erase the existence of want in areas that don't serve you in the longer term

Yes, the Schopenhauer quote is indeed essential stuff. The people who don't realize the truth of it are doomed to make very unwise life choices I believe.

As for a way to know for sure that it is the 'right' way to live - I'm not sure that is possible. I mean, there were some tests done on Buddhists and stuff to know the benefits of meditation and such, but other than that not much. A philosophy of life is something you have to practice for a while to know, simply reading on it won't do you much good or prove anything to you. What you said about focusing on those things that you can get is something that's part of those philosophies you mentioned. They'd say that the best is of course to be able to want what you already have, and do without what you don't have. Those philosophies attempt to teach you how to do that with their own specific practices. It comes down to what John Stuart Mill said: “I have learned to seek my happiness by limiting my desires, rather than in attempting to satisfy them." You limit your desires to what you can sustain, like you said, and enjoy those things that are of benefit to you, in a modest way. It's not an "all or nothing" thing. It's a less-is-better mentality, and you take it as far as you feel like taking it.

Yes, I think some areas are better than others. There are some things you do and which have you completely absorbed, and these are the best. Look for Peter Wessel Zapffe's theory on our defense mechanisms and how he highlights sublimation and separates it from the others which are forms of repression. It's similar to Schopenhauer's 'aesthetic contemplation'.

As for the last thing, I'm not sure I can be of much help answering this. I'm not someone who has thought a whole lot about "reprogramming"; more about denying the existing programming. There are a lot of people out there who will say that you can reprogram yourself and they'll charge you a lot of money to "coach" you to do it. That's definitely not something I'm interested in and I regard most of those people as charlatans. I do know that the plasticity of the brain allows you to recondition it if you really want to, though. And it's a whole lot easier when you're younger from the research I've seen. Can't teach an old dog new tricks type of thing. Your habits constantly recondition your brain, so yeah, if you manage to give up bad ones and replace them with ones that improve your well-being, it's definitely possible, but just how much it can deviate and re-establish itself from your current natural, temperamental baseline I don't know.

On January 24 2014 00:59 traxamillion wrote: It just seems like you view life and existence as intrinsically bad Loco. I agree that there is more to life than pleasure etc. but I also believe that is a big part of why we exist in this state and there are unique experiences in this life to enjoy. I believe in reincarnation and higher states of consciousness and existence and that is the real point of this life. To enjoy some things but also to grow. Love is the most important thing. Love yourself and others and strive to make this world a better place. Die reflect on how you did and come back to do it again. I truly don't see what is bad about this life. Sometimes we suffer but that does not outweigh the good we experience. Absolute nothingness is the worst horror i can imagine.

If that's what you really think, then you're in for one rough awakening, if such a thing is possible for you.

"The pleasure in this world, it has been said, outweighs the pain; or, at any rate, there is an even balance between the two. If the reader wishes to see shortly whether this statement is true, let him compare the respective feelings of two animals, one of which is engaged in eating the other." - Schopenhauer


Trust me, if you had been 'gifted' the worst possible afflictions that this world has to offer, you would change your mind. The worst horror imaginable is that of immortality. Imagine this planet blowing up - which it inevitably will one day, as any scientific will tell you - and you surviving this and floating in empty space forever, without control, without any possibility of imposing your will on your environment. How much substance would life have, then? How much do you think it would appeal to you? That is absolute horror, not non-existence. Compare non-existence with sleep, rather. Do we feel horrified when we look at someone sleeping? No, rather we tend to feel deeply that they are lucky to be able to escape whatever troubles are bothering the people who are up and about at the same moment.

On January 25 2014 09:51 Romm3l wrote: thats a disappointingly vague and effortless reply. im not convinced you have flipped any scripts

He makes videos of himself playing video games on YouTube. Being vague and evasive is probably the best thing for him to do here.

Things are never as they seem. People who call themselves life-affirmers are more accurately death-deniers. It is nothing but a defense mechanism at work. Read this book if you want to more fully understand why it is that people keep giving this same advice of "finding your own mission" and such:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Denial_of_Death

First thought:

I must have been pretty high on coffee, music, life, and the twinkle in the eye must have been strong in the moment I created the "proph y" name. Being a bit removed from LP for a while the name is a little ridiculous but I will rationalize with the justification that I am a huge Professor X fan and strive to be as clairvoyant, prophetic, empathetic, and humanitarian as possible so while the name is a bit much I can be a bit much at times and am not going to have a pseudonym for a pseudonym for a pseudonym.

Now that that thought is out of the way.

Excellent posting Loco!

Thank You for basically putting together a fantastic summary and collection of some philosophical thought I was not that familiar with but have learned from. One of the first things that jumped out to me was the twinkle in the eye concept. I have been battling with the relationship between boredom and transcendence, pain and pleasure, suffering and happiness for my whole life and this has got me thinking about some things again.

Is the twinkle in the eye a positive motivator for sustaining a more or less sustainable non-horrible life or is the twinkle in the eye a dangerous game; a tight rope walk that everyone falls off at some point?

At the current moment, I would say it is both. The twinkle in the eye is all we really have in this life but it is also a tight rope walk that everyone has the potential to and many times in fact fall off. But, if managed right any tight rope walk has safety nets available.

For example, I watched the movie "Breakfast at Tiffany's" (edit: I recommend a watch. Obviously, it is a movie and not real life but it illustrates some thought and ideas related to these thoughts and ideas and tbh, Audrey Hepburn on screen typically does a great job of soothing the pain of existence) recently or beyond that have just been thinking about these concepts.

For men: A plan of eye twinkling through solely ambition, status, money, alcohol, drugs, gambling, womanizing, strip clubs, material goods, reckless behavior, etc. etc. etc. is a very dangerous tight rope walk with less and less safety nets the further one ventures.

I recently read an article on Junior Seau's suicide that was pretty eye opening on the topic. For those that do not know Junior Seau is basically one of the best linebackers ever in the NFL. It got me thinking about just how high the best linebacker in the NFL must get running out of that tunnel to cheers and adoration, playing through injuries and making 16 tackles in the biggest playoff game of his life. What is he supposed to do when that all ends?

Junior couldn't sleep. He was depressed. He tried alcohol. He tried pain pills. He tried gambling. He tried starting businesses. The problem is beaten and battered by 20 years of professional football and downward spiraling drug use the decision making ability spirals downward as well. When the drug use, gambling losses, and withdrawal from family and friends got out of control he felt the only solution was shooting himself in the heart with a shotgun.

Was that the only solution at that point?

Would love, connection, engagement, community, sense of togetherness, sense of purpose, sense of understanding earlier in the story have saved his life?

It's no different with women either. Striving for airbrushed model beauty, material status, Drugs, retail, clubbing, maneating and/or hitching themselves to abusive men, etc etc etc. Take an extreme case of someone like Brittany Murphy and ask the same questions above.

The idea of the second question is what is important in answering the original question of what is sustainable living and is it possible?

To help answer these questions I like some thoughts of Eve Ensler. For some background, she is the woman behind "Vagina Monologues" and a strong presence in not only women activism but overall positive humanitarian efforts. I know most men are probably very speculative at this point and are debating not reading further but I'll just say a special lady friend dragged me to Vagina Monologues one time and it was an enjoyable, enriching experience. If everyone in the world went to that show with an open mind the world would be a better place. That is what ethics underneath the stars on this outlier rock of resources is all about. Increased knowledge, love, and sustainable mind blowing orgasms is some eye twinkling I can get behind.

Anyways, I will get back to one of her main thoughts on the original subject.

What makes you happy?

What is enough?

We are back on that tight rope walk again... She brought up an example of living in the South of Italy. One goes to the store and there is only one option for sea salt. It is just a white container that says sea salt. One buys the sea salt and then typically some vegetables grown in the area (if they are not already growing in the garden at home) and goes home and makes dinner with family and friends. Everyone breaks some bread and shares a great meal and great conversation and soothes the pain of the day and existence. Some go off to the beach to play music and dance. Some go off to the sofa to watch a movie that makes them laugh and feel good. Some go off to the bedroom to enjoy the wonders of each other. All cases usually ending in each nodding off to sleep drunk on happy thoughts.

Of course, there will be suffering. Of course, there will be pain. Of course, there will be boredom but these are all opportunities for learning and growth. Opportunities and motivation for hopefully a more slower releasing sustainable burn of eye twinkling. Many are naturally going to want to walk that highest, most dangerous tight rope walk. That is fine as long as they have some reliable safety nets or do not mind falling. Most sustainable for most is likely a reasonable tight rope walk (or even a wide plank walk) with layers and layers of supportive safety nets and encouragement. Everyone is going to reach a moment where they fall off and cease to exist on this outlier rock of resources underneath the stars and there is no safety net in the world that can overcome that truth but more or less sustainable non-horrible living is a possibility for (almost) everyone on the planet at this point in time.

Euthanasia is the marijuana of today. Its going to be illegal for our lifetime. That's just a fact of life. People who were born in 1918 grew up and died during the drug war. The war on euthanasia has been waged since medieval times by christianity. I hate christianity so much. The fucked up thing is I can't even talk about it with my family or friends because they will put me in a mental hospital if I say I want to be euthanized.

I'm not entirely sure I get what you're saying when you talk about this 'twinkle in the eye'. Do you simply mean contentment? If so, I would say that contentment in itself is not deceptive. It is what we are contented by or what we think will content us that can be deceptive, e.g. the mirage of the oasis in the desert. The rat race that so many partake in, for what is at the end only fake cheese, is another way to look at it.

If you find your contentment without having to hold on to illusions, or rather if you only have a minimal amount to sustain your own life, then in my view you have succeeded. The main question of philosophy, of how to live it, is something that has no definitive answer and which we all have to answer on our own as best as we can. Even for [philosophical] pessimists, the answer has been varied. Distraction, denial, I'm afraid is not an answer, yet it remains the most popular course of action in human beings. Only contemplation can help us navigate through life lucidly.


"We should repeat to ourselves, every day: I am one of the billions dragging himself across the earth's surface. One, and no more. This banality justifies any conclusion, any behavior or action: debauchery, chastity, suicide, work, crime, sloth, or rebellion.... Whence it follows that each man is right to do what he does." - Emil Cioran


This is the attitude that matters, not the result. In the beginning, it may strike us as nothing other than a mere laissez-faire attitude, where everything is seen as equal; but it is so only if it has started with the initial contemplation, with the acknowledgment of the absurdity of human existence and the meditation on its meaninglessness. This is the essential step that most people won't take, and as such they will end up fooling themselves and adhering to what they do believing it has real meaning. It is with such self-deception that some will want to conquer the cosmos, will praise religion or transhumanism or will see terraforming as something positive. They will impose unnecessary suffering on others because of their false view of themselves and their own heroic "immortality project" (Ernest Becker).

On January 26 2014 18:24 Loco wrote: I'm not entirely sure I get what you're saying when you talk about this 'twinkle in the eye'. Do you simply mean contentment? If so, I would say that contentment in itself is not deceptive. It is what we are contented by or what we think will content us that can be deceptive, e.g. the mirage of the oasis in the desert. The rat race that so many partake in, for what is at the end only fake cheese, is another way to look at it. If you find your contentment without having to hold on to illusions, or rather if you only have a minimal amount to sustain your own life, then in my view you have succeeded. The main question of philosophy, of how to live it, is something that has no definitive answer and which we all have to answer on our own as best as we can. Even for [philosophical] pessimists, the answer has been varied. Distraction, denial, I'm afraid is not an answer, yet it remains the most popular course of action in human beings. Only contemplation can help us navigate through life lucidly. "We should repeat to ourselves, every day: I am one of the billions dragging himself across the earth's surface. One, and no more. This banality justifies any conclusion, any behavior or action: debauchery, chastity, suicide, work, crime, sloth, or rebellion.... Whence it follows that each man is right to do what he does." - Emil Cioran This is the attitude that matters, not the result. In the beginning, it may strike us as nothing other than a mere laissez-faire attitude, where everything is seen as equal; but it is so only if it has started with the initial contemplation, with the acknowledgment of the absurdity of human existence and the meditation on its meaninglessness. This is the essential step that most people won't take, and as such they will end up fooling themselves and adhering to what they do believing it has real meaning. It is with such self-deception that some will want to conquer the cosmos, will praise religion or transhumanism or will see terraforming as something positive. They will impose unnecessary suffering on others because of their false view of themselves and their own heroic "immortality project" (Ernest Becker).

Yeah, I kind of took that twinkle in the eye idea and ran with it. I would define it as happiness, contentment, transcendence. Being in that moment in which ones' brain is getting that smooth influx of endorphins and everything in the world is ok.

Great posting again Loco. I agree with the oasis in the desert and rat race concept. The problem is some of the oasis-es and fake cheese are actually real. The other problem is that advertising and coercion through power work. The two of those combined make it exceptionally more difficult to navigate through the world unscathed by all sorts of symbols, programming, and authority. At the end of the day we are all nothing more than evolved monkies. It is similar to that psychology experiment where the bird hits the button and gets food or not at random except with humans there are all sorts of signals that are saying "hey, push this button here and get happiness and contentment!" To complicate it, it is not as simple as just food. It is not as simple as things we actually need to survive. Almost all people with the capability to post on LP already have what they need in terms of being physically healthy and not dying. With humans a lot of the time it's randomly pushing all these buttons for things they think they need/want and to make matters worse, buttons one pushed the previous day, previous hour, previous minute might no longer "work." For example, one night you might push the button and find yourself at a cool jazz club on a great date packed with a bunch of people full of je ne sais quoi with a live band just killing it. The eye twinkling is strong and magical that night. The cheese is real and it tastes fantastic. Another night you are having a bad day, you go and push the button and the place is empty, there's no live music and you get diarrhea and the toilet does not work.

Fake cheese is soda. It is nothing more than sugared water. The problem is even the most cynical of all evolved monkies can watch an ad where a family of polar bears does something cute, funny, whatever and a part of the brain goes "awe... maybe this world is alright after all." Then one finds oneself in a situation where someone offers a coca cola and one obliges and then consumes it and it actually tastes f'ing delicious and the sugar and caffeine and fizziness makes one feel good as well as the communal act of sharing a cold drink and experience with fellow tribe mates is deeply satisfying.

Also, even an "oasis" that proves to be real may not be sustainable or satisfying. One morning you wake up in your dream vacation spot... there is a knock at the door... It is your fantasy woman whoever that may be and she informs you that there is a line of your fantasy women downstairs all completely smitten with you and your penis... An army of iron chefs are in the kitchen ready to prepare whatever you want whenever you want... How long does it take before you say "ughhhh, morimoto's best sushi and kate upton again? sheesh, I would love to go surfing, or lay on the beach and read a book, or help someone out, or or or... just be for once..."

I like the Emil and Ernest quotes and overall agree with the sentiment and attitude. From my own experiences so far, I like to always add that some sort of blueprint based in ethics is a wise choice but like both Emil and Ernest posit at the end of the day nothing actually matters and like I do not even remember at this point but probably Sartre, Kierkgard, Neitszche, a ton of people posit one has to find ones' own meaning in the time between non-existence and non-existence.

That last sentence is likely a run on and it's always a bit awkward when you are having a great time and then have to decide how you want to leave for the time being but until next time... Take care LP.