blackjacki2 United States. May 08 2012 15:35. Posts 2581
Since topics about scary and intrusive government powers are so popular on LP, I figured I would continue the trend...
The NSA is finishing construction on it's $2 billion, 1 million square foot data center in Utah. 100,000 square feet will be dedicated just for data storage. This is enough room to store 1 yottabyte of data. In 2009 the combined space of every hard drive in the world was only 1/2 of 1 yottabyte. A yottabyte is so large that there hasn't even been a coin termed for what comes after a yottabyte.
So I was wondering why the government would ever need to store that much information. It's reasonable to believe that the most desirable and sensitive information that the government wants would be from private email, facebook messages, etc. and something they would need a warrant for. Throwing in the extra step of getting a warrant makes it impossible to data mine that much information.
But now we are seeing things like this:
CNET learns the FBI is quietly pushing its plan to force surveillance backdoors on social networks, VoIP, and Web e-mail providers, and that the bureau is asking Internet companies not to oppose a law making those backdoors mandatory.
and the "Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act of 2011"
Which according to the ACLU:
"The Cyber Intelligence Sharing and Protection Act would create a cybersecurity exception to all privacy laws and allow companies to share the private and personal data they hold on their American customers with the government for cybersecurity purposes. The bill would not limit the companies to sharing only technical, non-personal data. Instead, it would give the companies discretion to decide the type and amount of information to turn over to the government. If shared in good faith compliance with the statute, these entities would receive full liability protection and would be immune from criminal or civil liability, even after an egregious breach of privacy. Further, once an individual’s information is shared with the government, there would be no restriction on the use of that information. It could be used for any purpose whatsoever and shared with any agency. While such data might be used for cybersecurity purposes, there would be no bar on the government also using it to conduct fishing expeditions for criminal, immigration or other purposes"
yeah this stuff is real and sucks bad. not sure what can be done about it, our system of governance is pretty useless for stopping these types of activities.
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Last edit: 08/05/2012 16:01
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palak United States. May 08 2012 16:30. Posts 4601
Eh the link for the backdoor thing says it is just amending a '94 law that currently is enforced on phone companies. So the FBI would still need permission to backdoor just as they need permission for a wiretap.
Unsure what version of Cispa u r talkin bout in OP, Obama has promised a veto of the house version. The senate version not so much, which sux.
The Senate cyber security bill, which was introduced by Joseph Lieberman, does have stronger privacy protections than CISPA. For example, the Lieberman bill requires that reasonable efforts be made to strip away personal information unrelated to cybercrime. But like CISPA, the Lieberman bill doesn’t prohibit the government from prosecuting the unrelated crimes if it finds them.For this reason, it too poses a risk of the Nixon effect: If the Department of Homeland Security were interested in retaliating against one of its critics, for example, it could request that Internet service providers share any email or web communications that are “indicative” of a cyber threat. If, after fishing for wrongdoing, government investigators find evidence of a crime unrelated to cyber security, the critics could be prosecuted for that crime, no matter how low-level. (The Center for Democracy and Technology provides a detailed comparison of the House and Senate bills.)
http://www.tnr.com/article/politics/1...et-freedom-rights-sopa-net-neutrality
Imo itll be interesting to see how this plays out since most of the tech companies that hated sopa support the house and senate versions of cispa. Will be an actual test of what defeated sopa, public outcry or rich tech company opposition. Larger issue America is facing is if conservatives get power of all three branches this november we can probably start just checking off a lot of privacy rights we have now. Romney will support repubs in congress and they may very well get control of the senate. Also funny that Obama takes the unprecedentedd and yes arguably constitutional (very flimsy would almost never hold up in court) that "due process" in the constituion does not entitle an American citizen by trial and instead a panel of judges alone can satisfy due process allowing the president to issue 'kill on sight' orders on an American citizen. And almost no one yells about it, but when its "we want to read ur fb messeges", or "we want to give u universal healthcare" everyone freaks the fuck out saying "the gov't is invading our personal lives"
dont tap the glass...im about ready to take a fucking hammer to the aquarium
I don't get some of these concerns. You are putting your personal information on the Net for the whole world to see then you flip out when government is taking advantage of this? I know its wrong and stuff. What you have on your Facebook that government doesn't know already?
PS: I'm against gov doing this. But Im not gonna loose sleep over it
In US everyone is happy as long as all the prices are rising. Unless its crude oil - Marc Faber
Last edit: 10/05/2012 00:14
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Sanity United States. May 10 2012 01:12. Posts 1076
big brother getting more and more power, this is ridiculous
it's pretty obvious how they are tightening the ring around our necks. And about permission to wiretap - even if officially they need one do you really believe they don't do it without it? The biggest phone companies in the USA are Israeli. It doesn't take a rocketscience to get that the Mossad is all over that intelligence data. The control of the Zionists over America is huge. More and more zionists like Rahm Emanuel take high positions in the Government. They wanna ban vitamins, wanna ban normal food and leave only GMO and profit from it. I read everyday about Government or police fucking americans. So many crazy real-life stories. Just look at this - http://offgridsurvival.com/governmentofficialsseizebunkerhome/ . They fucking raped this 70 year old man that worked for them for so long. It's really a Neo-nazi regime. It's just so many things that people are starting to wake up and there will be a time when Americans say "enough".
Zep: When I said I feel obligated to troll, it was a figure of speech
On May 10 2012 06:15 austrian oak wrote:
They can look at my porn np
until 1 day when the pirated porn you watch is deemed illegal to view... USA content, or the very content is illegal in itself. The USA either extradites you/gives your government the information and you go to jail either in your own country or are extradited to the USA.
Not hard to see a future where even simple porn is deemed illegal if the right crazy people take over. And when someone has this much power, well, good luck to you.
None of you realize, they aren't just tracking your habits, they are collecting every single email, VOIP, thread post, encrypted file transfers. Why? because they know in 5-10 years they will have the technology to crack all our present encryption methods.
They already can crack the old AES encryption prior to 128bit, and once this facility is finished they will start cracking all their old saved files. In 5-10 years they will be able to crack the present information they are collecting/storing. So eventually they will know the contents to all your emails/file transfers. If you are doing things illegal now, they will soon be able to know what. It's 1 massive fucking privacy breach that will soon become the norm.
I have learned from poker that being at the table is not a grind, the grind is living and poker is how I pass the time
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NewbSaibot United States. May 10 2012 19:19. Posts 4943
On May 09 2012 23:13 capaneo wrote:
I don't get some of these concerns. You are putting your personal information on the Net for the whole world to see then you flip out when government is taking advantage of this? I know its wrong and stuff. What you have on your Facebook that government doesn't know already?
PS: I'm against gov doing this. But Im not gonna loose sleep over it
The concern is what the gov't might do with this information. Facebook just sells you out for advertisement dollars, but the gov't could use it to imprison you or whatever. I'll tell my friends about all the illegal shit I've done, but I sure as fuck arent confessing it to the local police dept.
bye now
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palak United States. May 10 2012 19:59. Posts 4601
until 1 day when the pirated porn you watch is deemed illegal to view
judging by how as long as you disable browser caches it's legal to watch child porn in new york and the precedence of which makes it arguably legal in every state that does not have specific laws against viewing i am not to worried about pirated porn that's illegal to view. btw the pirating is already illegal soooo ya. http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter..._a_crime_in_new_york_court_rules.html
also IP addresses do not allow for a person to be identified soooo ya, that's a plus for us also
In a ruling that could fuel debate about online privacy, a federal judge in Seattle has held that IP addresses are not personal information.
"In order for 'personally identifiable information' to be personally identifiable, it must identify a person. But an IP address identifies a computer," U.S. District Court Judge Richard Jones said in a written decision.
The concern is what the gov't might do with this information. Facebook just sells you out for advertisement dollars, but the gov't could use it to imprison you or whatever. I'll tell my friends about all the illegal shit I've done, but I sure as fuck arent confessing it to the local police dept.
unless u r openly planning a terrorist attack or admitting to murders or are providing evidence of massive hacking they won't give a shit
dont tap the glass...im about ready to take a fucking hammer to the aquarium
On May 08 2012 14:35 blackjacki2 wrote:
100,000 square feet will be dedicated just for data storage. This is enough room to store 1 yottabyte of data.
Wow what a dumb thing to say, even if it was true.
That's 23 225 m^3 (assuming a room height of 2.5 meters) which is enough to store 74 680 000 3.5" hard drives which is enough to store 1.4936*10^20 bytes of data which is 1/6695th of a yottabyte (which is 10^24 bytes of data)
so they're off by quite a bit.
This is of course assuming that the data will be stored by simply stacking towers upon towers of hard drives which aren't linked to any computer,
and even then we're only at 1/6695th of the data they said the room was capable of storing.
So yeah, even if we assume they're going to be purchasing more expensive technology than $100 2TB 3.5" hard drives, this assessment of storage ability is ludicrous.
</rant about, as usual, ridiculously unrealistic expectations of the government's spy programs>
Last edit: 10/05/2012 20:26
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palak United States. May 10 2012 20:45. Posts 4601
^i think was based on the part of the article saying
Given the facility’s scale and the fact that a terabyte of data can now be stored on a flash drive the size of a man’s pinky, the potential amount of information that could be housed in Bluffdale is truly staggering. But so is the exponential growth in the amount of intelligence data being produced every day by the eavesdropping sensors of the NSA and other intelligence agencies. As a result of this “expanding array of theater airborne and other sensor networks,” as a 2007 Department of Defense report puts it, the Pentagon is attempting to expand its worldwide communications network, known as the Global Information Grid, to handle yottabytes (1024 bytes) of data. (A yottabyte is a septillion bytes—so large that no one has yet coined a term for the next higher magnitude.)
It needs that capacity because, according to a recent report by Cisco, global Internet traffic will quadruple from 2010 to 2015, reaching 966 exabytes per year. (A million exabytes equal a yottabyte.) In terms of scale, Eric Schmidt, Google’s former CEO, once estimated that the total of all human knowledge created from the dawn of man to 2003 totaled 5 exabytes. And the data flow shows no sign of slowing. In 2011 more than 2 billion of the world’s 6.9 billion people were connected to the Internet. By 2015, market research firm IDC estimates, there will be 2.7 billion users. Thus, the NSA’s need for a 1-million-square-foot data storehouse. Should the agency ever fill the Utah center with a yottabyte of information, it would be equal to about 500 quintillion (500,000,000,000,000,000,000) pages of text.
but that's the pentagon worldwide network someday reaching it, not just a facility...
also lets say they hypothetically fill the room w/ these
During Display Taiwan, Transcend and Taiwan's ITRI displayed a finger-long USB stick that reportedly offers 2 TB of storage. That's no typo. It somehow holds up to 2 terabytes worth of information.
During Display Taiwan, Transcend and Taiwan's ITRI displayed a finger-long USB stick that reportedly offers 2 TB of storage. That's no typo. It somehow holds up to 2 terabytes worth of information.
Not really, literally no one would ever think of using unreliable, 10Mb/s, greatly prone to failure USB sticks in a spy center.
Also: Their cost would run in the tens if not hundreds of billions of dollars with a great percentage needing replacements every year.
Also also: They have not yet been created. "The one that we looked at on display was only 16GB but the technology behind that particular 16GB stick is capable of scaling to 2 Terabytes"
On May 10 2012 06:15 austrian oak wrote:
They can look at my porn np
until 1 day when the pirated porn you watch is deemed illegal to view... USA content, or the very content is illegal in itself. The USA either extradites you/gives your government the information and you go to jail either in your own country or are extradited to the USA.
Yes cause the USA has world domination .. wat? Noone will ever let this happen. In the disturbing scenario you described there would be only one world power that could pretty much push on anyone, anywhere in the planet .. . If that happens our cyber security will be the last thing thats bothersome. You cant state something like that so simply when there are so many factors that will come into play and noone in this forum would have enough information to make a good guess on what would happen
Id say go on USA invest in something so ridiculous I bet tax payers will be very glad about it
On May 10 2012 06:15 austrian oak wrote:
They can look at my porn np
until 1 day when the pirated porn you watch is deemed illegal to view... USA content, or the very content is illegal in itself. The USA either extradites you/gives your government the information and you go to jail either in your own country or are extradited to the USA.
Yes cause the USA has world domination .. wat? Noone will ever let this happen. In the disturbing scenario you described there would be only one world power that could pretty much push on anyone, anywhere in the planet .. . If that happens our cyber security will be the last thing thats bothersome. You cant state something like that so simply when there are so many factors that will come into play and noone in this forum would have enough information to make a good guess on what would happen
Id say go on USA invest in something so ridiculous I bet tax payers will be very glad about it
Oh yes this never happens, oh wait... it happens every fucking time, just recently megaupload founder.
Ex-PokerStars Team Pro Online
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palak United States. May 11 2012 17:14. Posts 4601
yes because one person pirating a movie is directly comparable to the person in charge of one of the largest copyright infringing web site network on the planet who the MPAA and RIAA had been bitching at the US gov't to take down for multiple years
i'm against the megaupload takedown, but using that as an example to counter spitfiree is moronic
dont tap the glass...im about ready to take a fucking hammer to the aquarium
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blackjacki2 United States. May 12 2012 00:02. Posts 2581
A US Appeals Court said the NSA can keep any arrangement it has with google a secret in response to a Freedom of Information Act request from a public interest group
Interview bullets points from this week. Full video at bottom Apparently in the USA this is being censored or blacked out - unknown source
Here are some of the other interesting points he made in the interview:
"There have been thousands of violations of the National Security Agency and other agencies and authorities every single year."
Every time you pick up the phone, dial a number, write an email, make a purchase, travel on the bus carrying a cell phone, swipe a card somewhere, you leave a trace and the government has decided that it’s a good idea to collect it all, everything, even if you’ve never been suspected of any crime. Traditionally the government would identify a suspect, they would go to a judge, they would say we suspect he’s committed this crime, they would get a warrant and then they would be able to use the totality of their powers in pursuit of the investigation. Nowadays what we see is they want to apply the totality of their powers in advance - prior to an investigation.
"When you are on the inside and you go into work everyday and you sit down at the desk and you realise the power you have - you can wire tap the President of the United States, you can wire tap a Federal Judge and if you do it carefully no one will ever know"
"But what (the review boards investigating the illegal NSA programs) found was that these programs have no value, they’ve never stopped a terrorist attack in the United States and they have marginal utility at best for other things...The National Security agency operates under the President’s executive authority alone. He can end of modify or direct a change of their policies at any time."
I can track your username on a website on a form somewhere, I can track your real name, I can track associations with your friends and I can build what’s called a fingerprint which is network activity unique to you which means anywhere you go in the world anywhere you try to sort of hide your online presence hide your identity, the NSA can find you
However, it’s no secret that every country in the world has the data of their citizens in the NSA. Millions and millions and millions of data connections from Germans going about their daily lives, talking on their cell phones, sending SMS messages, visiting websites, buying things online, all of this ends up at the NSA and it’s reasonable to suspect that the BND may be aware of it in some capacity.
So realistically what’s happening is when they say there’s no spying on Germans, they don’t mean that German data isn’t being gathered, they don’t mean that records aren’t being taken or stolen, what they mean is that they’re not intentionally searching for German citizens. And that’s sort of a fingers crossed behind the back promise, it’s not reliable.
The problem there is you end up in a situation where government policies are being influenced by private corporations who have interests that are completely divorced from the public good in mind. The result of that is what we saw at Booze Allen Hamilton where you have private individuals who have access to what the government alleges were millions and millions of records that they could walk out the door with at any time with no accountability, no oversight, no auditing, the government didn’t even know they were gone.
If I am a traitor who did I betray? I gave all of my information to the American public, to American journalists who are reporting on American issues. If they see that as treason I think people really need to consider who do they think they’re working for. The public is supposed to be their boss not their enemy.
What he doesn’t say is that the crimes that he has charged me with are crimes that don’t allow me to make my case. They don’t allow me to defend myself in an open court to the public and convince a jury that what I did was to their benefit. The espionage act was never intended, it’s from 1918, it was never intended to prosecute journalistic sources, people who are informing the newspapers about information that’s of public interest. It was intended for people who are selling documents in secret to foreign governments who are bombing bridges who are sabotaging communications not people who are serving the public good. So it’s I would say illustrative that the president would choose to say someone should face the music when he knows the music is a show trial.
I have learned from poker that being at the table is not a grind, the grind is living and poker is how I pass the time
Last edit: 28/01/2014 12:25
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sniderstyle United States. Jan 28 2014 13:29. Posts 2046
What's so sick about all of this is the way they interrupt language. They find the most minute words of ambiguity and run rampant.
Examaple would be, the US thinks this is legal because of a precedent in 1979
In the high court’s 1979 Smith v. Maryland ruling, the justices said Americans don’t have a Fourth Amendment privacy right to the phone numbers they call. But that was for ONE amercan for ONE phone call. We then in turntook taht ruling to make it justified to collect ALL data on ALL citizens EVERYWHERE
Considering this was made in 1979 before EMAIL/FAceBook/CELLPHONES
That law is A) Outdated, B) Not Intended for the way it's used now
Then we hear over and over again how everything the NSA is doing is a lawful.
Well yah its lawful if you interrupt the law not how it was intended and call it lawful. It's not, you're just in power. It won't hold. We know the truth. Thank you Edward Snowden for the docs.
Genginho: lose today 100 dollar only because of fishs they called and had luck on river
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sniderstyle United States. Jan 28 2014 13:40. Posts 2046
btw the spying is not the significance of the story
the significance of the story this entire thing is such a clear violation of American citizen's rights, anyone who defends it has sold out to the secret government, specifically media/politicans.
If you look in the last 6 months and see who defended the NSA, they are the biggest sell outs
And visa versa, the people who aggressively went after the NSA, are the people fighting for the constitutional rights of Americans
Never before have I seen a clear distinction.
Yay for the Justin Amashs, Glenn Greenwalds, Alan Grayson, Julian Assange, Jesselyn Radack, and all those helping Snowden
Fuck off Dianne Feinstein, Mike Rogers, Barrack Obama, James Clapper, Michael Hayden, General Alexander, et all
Genginho: lose today 100 dollar only because of fishs they called and had luck on river
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TalentedTom Canada. Jan 29 2014 11:55. Posts 20070
So we are free to do whatever we want, as long as we are being watched while we do it. It seems inevitable that this kind of thing would happen, USA government is doing whatever the hell it wants and no one can really oppose them. It's a scary thought that someone can use anything you've ever written or read/seen online, or any conversation you've ever had over the phone as leverage against you. That amount of power and the way it was gained is unconstitutional and unethical, that being said I'm not sure if there is anything anyone can do about it? Is it too late to do anything?
"That law is A) Outdated, B) Not Intended for the way it's used now"
Law is VERY outdated, they need to do a full revision of the entire legal system, although one can only dream. Nothing is going to happen any time soon.
That being said, if I was the government, I would prob do the same thing. I would say it's along similar lines as poker datamining. playing against that player for the first time with already a set game plan whereas he has no idea whats going on. If you think poker datamining is okay and/or you have used a datamine in the past, then logically it would be hypocritical to say the government should stop doing this.
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light not our darkness that most frightens us and as we let our own lights shine we unconsciously give other people permision to do the same
On January 29 2014 10:55 TalentedTom wrote:
If you think poker datamining is okay and/or you have used a datamine in the past, then logically it would be hypocritical to say the government should stop doing this.
I think the NSA's invasion of peoples privacy everywhere is one of those things you simply can't relate to poker.
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traxamillion United States. Jan 29 2014 12:56. Posts 10468
I don't datamine.
Do your internet dirt at the library.
Get a throw away phone in a fake name (metro pcs).
Should help some
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traxamillion United States. Jan 29 2014 12:57. Posts 10468
They have cameras on every street corner in San Francisco. Pretty lame
On January 29 2014 10:55 TalentedTom wrote:
So we are free to do whatever we want, as long as we are being watched while we do it. It seems inevitable that this kind of thing would happen, USA government is doing whatever the hell it wants and no one can really oppose them. It's a scary thought that someone can use anything you've ever written or read/seen online, or any conversation you've ever had over the phone as leverage against you. That amount of power and the way it was gained is unconstitutional and unethical, that being said I'm not sure if there is anything anyone can do about it? Is it too late to do anything?
"That law is A) Outdated, B) Not Intended for the way it's used now"
Law is VERY outdated, they need to do a full revision of the entire legal system, although one can only dream. Nothing is going to happen any time soon.
That being said, if I was the government, I would prob do the same thing. I would say it's along similar lines as poker datamining. playing against that player for the first time with already a set game plan whereas he has no idea whats going on. If you think poker datamining is okay and/or you have used a datamine in the past, then logically it would be hypocritical to say the government should stop doing this.
There are ways around it, security related ways, however, nothing is stopping the GOV from banning/illegal to use security that stops them from being able to read all your messages/posts
Right now the big push is end to end encryption tech, which is very hard to do, as there are lots of weak spots. So, even if google/apple accomplish it, the USA could ban that tech or make it illegal to use certain forms of SSL on your phone/browsers.
The only way to ensure protection of privacy will be proper laws and legislation, which will be very hard as all the politicians are invested in the status quo or can be strong armed
I will go find the most recent Greenwald interview
I have learned from poker that being at the table is not a grind, the grind is living and poker is how I pass the time
I have learned from poker that being at the table is not a grind, the grind is living and poker is how I pass the time
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sniderstyle United States. Jan 29 2014 14:15. Posts 2046
On January 29 2014 10:55 TalentedTom wrote:
If you think poker datamining is okay and/or you have used a datamine in the past, then logically it would be hypocritical to say the government should stop doing this.
The difference, of course, being that pokerdata mining websites do use your information but they could never use that information to put you in jail, or in the American citizen's Anwar Al Waki's case, droned, without a trial.
Genginho: lose today 100 dollar only because of fishs they called and had luck on river
Last edit: 29/01/2014 14:27
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TalentedTom Canada. Jan 29 2014 14:35. Posts 20070
^^ my point was, everyone wants access to free information, and if we do, we tend to keep it to ourselves and use it for our own benefit. Unfortunately we live in a world where one "group" has access to 100% of information send out, almost like god mode intelligence. The worst part is, it's prob too late to do anything now, Im sure there's double and triple backups, if we pass a law to make it illegal, the systems are already created and can easily be duplicated if we for example burn down this spy center. Sounds like gg to me
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light not our darkness that most frightens us and as we let our own lights shine we unconsciously give other people permision to do the same
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sniderstyle United States. Jan 30 2014 02:46. Posts 2046
the drip drip drip leaks from edward snowden seem to be released in a very purposeful way, often refuting official statements and exposing lies. I wouldn't be surprised if they planned out and anticipated govt response in a game of Set up, and Spike.
The following months, Pierre Omidyard's new news venture, that's sponsors Investigative Journalism, will put the pressure to the Obama administration. The more leaks exposed, the more the population understands truly how out of control the goverment has become with zero oversight (hence why I call it the secret govt - unprecedented levels of classified information - and to expose any of it is a national security threat)
We'll see how we respond as a citizen ship.
Genginho: lose today 100 dollar only because of fishs they called and had luck on river
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YoMeR United States. Jan 30 2014 04:51. Posts 12435
daddy US is always watching.
eZ Life.
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brambolius Netherlands. Jan 30 2014 12:23. Posts 1708
On January 29 2014 11:56 traxamillion wrote:
I don't datamine.
Do your internet dirt at the library.
Get a throw away phone in a fake name (metro pcs).
Should help some
doesn't work, the only reason it can be helpful is simply because they aren't watching you as much as you want to believe. Everyone has to switch phones at the same time. Otherwise they can link the new numbers calling old phones, use the metadata to compare it to previous 'watched' people and very quickly link the same person on new phone.
I have learned from poker that being at the table is not a grind, the grind is living and poker is how I pass the time
On January 30 2014 11:23 brambolius wrote:
Morbidly obese brother ?
Made my day.
Also, time to invent something that is undetectable. Or bring back the romance of written word, pigeons and secret arrangements.
Soon enough you'll have to resort to how Marlo ran things in the wire.
Canada. Jan 29 2014 11:55. Posts 20070
