I have a very hard time believing an argument that marijuana isn't being used now because of politics against it. Although it may be true that the government isn't in favor of legalizing marijuana (for whatever reason), it is very difficult to believe that pharmaceutical companies would just let something that could cure cancer just fall to the wayside. Do you realize how much money would be made for a company that patented an active drug that just cured cancer? It would obviously be an instant blockbuster which NO other company could use except the particular company that patented it for 20 years. It would have the market cornered on the product for that long before generic competitors could enter the market. We're talking billions, probably trillions of dollars over the next several years. That is incentive enough to say Fuck you government. Pharmaceutical companies have much more power then you probably realize, and believe me they will use that power for their benefit.
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palak United States. Jan 25 2012 20:31. Posts 4601
As those are your criteria that need to be met, then fine, nothing has changed for you. One day those things will be done and we'll have to smoke a bowl together to celebrate. I hope you do realize that the main obstacle is the politics around cannabis - you can't do those human trials without FDA and DEA approval, and good luck getting DEA approval. So BECAUSE we are prevented from doing those things, we need to look for other ways to make the case. Yes, they won't satisfy you doctors yet, but if the government would stop obstructing we could satisfy you guys. And we need you guys to be pushing from your end to get those things done - how can you guys look at all these results, and the fact that cannabis causes apoptosis in cancer cells, and not be chomping at the bit? Why such a sour puss attitude?
Here is the problem. The evidence you just gave in ur blog is the same quality evidence as the Gerson Therapy http://gerson.org/faq.htm
Until there are published clinical independent results you don't have any actual evidence that matters when it comes to medicine. The US gov't blocking research is a frustrating block, but is solved by just moving trials elsewhere like Canada or Nigeria (Pfizer does illegal tests there) or Central America (CIA did (maybe still does) secret drug testing there)
If they genuinly think they have a possible cure for a type of cancer then they should ask an independent lab to do in vitro and then possible in vivo tests. 75 rats being cured under lab conditions is 1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000x more convincing then 3 (or even 75) ppl being cured outside of a lab.
dont tap the glass...im about ready to take a fucking hammer to the aquarium
On January 25 2012 19:25 Luhos wrote:
I have a very hard time believing an argument that marijuana isn't being used now because of politics against it. Although it may be true that the government isn't in favor of legalizing marijuana (for whatever reason), it is very difficult to believe that pharmaceutical companies would just let something that could cure cancer just fall to the wayside. Do you realize how much money would be made for a company that patented an active drug that just cured cancer? It would obviously be an instant blockbuster which NO other company could use except the particular company that patented it for 20 years. It would have the market cornered on the product for that long before generic competitors could enter the market. We're talking billions, probably trillions of dollars over the next several years. That is incentive enough to say Fuck you government. Pharmaceutical companies have much more power then you probably realize, and believe me they will use that power for their benefit.
I keep seeing elementary logical fallacies over and over again. You cannot patent a natural plant. K? You cannot patent a drug for 20 years. K? You are right that Big Pharma wouldn't let billions of dollars slip through their fingers. That's why they win around $300 billion dollars every year - they keep researching plants and making synthetic drugs based on their observations of which plants help. THEN they can patent it. 5 years down the road the patent expires and they twitch the formula just a lil bit so that they can make a new patent and keep the price big. Big Pharma doesn't like natural cures on anything, cause they cannot make money.
illegal marijuana:
-Drug war - hundreds of millions every year.
-Huge prison business - most prisoners are there for drug dealing
-Huge profits for Big Pharma cause people can't self-medicate** and have to buy expensive synthetics to (not cure but) 'dumb-down' symptoms of diseases. ('Modern medical industry hates curing disease, they love making life-long patients - anti-depressants for example)
-uncontrolled drug environment. Young kids can go buy marijuana and the dealer goes "ever tried this crystal stuff, it's awesome!"
legal marijuana:
-no drug war - savings in over hundreds of millions of $.
-taxation - +hundreds of millions of dollar every year.
-prison industry gets raped and expenditures (profits for some big fish) drops by a half
-controlled drug environment - you have to be over 18 to buy from drug stores. Price becomes super low. Drug dealers become much less due to prices and legality and quality.
-Big Pharma loses billions of dollars every year due to people using Marijuana to treat illnesses like glaucoma/Multiple sclerosis/depression/arthritis/inflamations/burning sensations/restless legs and so on.
Proof of the effectiveness of marijuana:
(for the 100th time - smoking weed DOESN'T cure cancer. It's marijuana oil that does - it has to be super concentrated, mkay?
Oh, and just think about this - we are discussing whether a naturally occurring plant that makes people happy and help them through tough time with 0 deaths in the history of mankind can be legal. At the same time we have mass-murder-weapons like cigarretes legal (400 000 deaths in the USA every year). Isn't it ironic how fucked up the world is and how brainwashed people are?
- this is how concerned for your health is Big Pharma and the FDA. Oh wait, "THEY DIDN'T KNOW it was detrimental to the health. 40 years ago we didn't have labs to test stuff" rofl :D.
Zep: When I said I feel obligated to troll, it was a figure of speech
Last edit: 26/01/2012 04:10
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YoMeR United States. Jan 26 2012 03:49. Posts 12435
I think the pharmy arguement is kinda moot...they have the vast means and resources to just dominate the weed market as well...
On January 26 2012 02:49 YoMeR wrote:
I think the pharmy arguement is kinda moot...they have the vast means and resources to just dominate the weed market as well...
First, they can't patent it so - no monopoly. Secondly, in just a few years time most people would've learned how to grow it themselves. Nobody wants to give money for something that is easy to grow and have big yields. Thirdly, they would lose BILLIONS of dollars from the anti-depressant industry and other pills that would be waaay less effective than weed. That would also take a few years for people to realize.
In conclusion, Big Pharma would lose tens of billions of dollars every year IF Marijuana is legal. Those people love money more than life, they would eat their shit for that much money. Greed is all around us. Just come and let it snow. :D
Zep: When I said I feel obligated to troll, it was a figure of speech
I find it mildly entertaining and moreso disturbing that such a "smart" forum has no idea what this company is attempting and HAS done so in the past.
Fuck it, whatever. Why do I even share information to people who won't care, yet, act like they do.
Hey. K2. Or anyone else. You can invest in this company. SUPER CHEAP. Fucking buy it. Put your money where your mouth is. You can become millionaires. Invest it all, INSANE DIVIDENDS must come.
On January 26 2012 02:49 YoMeR wrote:
I think the pharmy arguement is kinda moot...they have the vast means and resources to just dominate the weed market as well...
First, they can't patent it so - no monopoly. Secondly, in just a few years time most people would've learned how to grow it themselves. Nobody wants to give money for something that is easy to grow and have big yields. Thirdly, they would lose BILLIONS of dollars from the anti-depressant industry and other pills that would be waaay less effective than weed. That would also take a few years for people to realize.
In conclusion, Big Pharma would lose tens of billions of dollars every year IF Marijuana is legal. Those people love money more than life, they would eat their shit for that much money. Greed is all around us. Just come and let it snow. :D
Ofc they can patent it. You sure have alot of opinions in areas where you dont even know the basic facts. Very recently the patented drug Sativex got approved in Sweden for treatment of MS. Its a spray containing THC and other cannabis components. You are so fucking dumb if you think the greedy pharmaceutical companies are completely ignoring something that according to you basicly cures cancer. You also clearly no nothing about depression but what else is new.
On January 25 2012 18:53 whamm! wrote:
I dunno about cancer, but I sure hope pot becomes legal in the states so that my country follows suit (they always do)
weed here is shit most times and hard/risky to buy
On January 26 2012 02:49 YoMeR wrote:
I think the pharmy arguement is kinda moot...they have the vast means and resources to just dominate the weed market as well...
First, they can't patent it so - no monopoly. Secondly, in just a few years time most people would've learned how to grow it themselves. Nobody wants to give money for something that is easy to grow and have big yields. Thirdly, they would lose BILLIONS of dollars from the anti-depressant industry and other pills that would be waaay less effective than weed. That would also take a few years for people to realize.
In conclusion, Big Pharma would lose tens of billions of dollars every year IF Marijuana is legal. Those people love money more than life, they would eat their shit for that much money. Greed is all around us. Just come and let it snow. :D
Ofc they can patent it. You sure have alot of opinions in areas where you dont even know the basic facts. Very recently the patented drug Sativex got approved in Sweden for treatment of MS. Its a spray containing THC and other cannabis components. You are so fucking dumb if you think the greedy pharmaceutical companies are completely ignoring something that according to you basicly cures cancer. You also clearly no nothing about depression but what else is new.
rofl, green star lol. I am very worried for your future patients. Ofc they can patent the individual cannabindoids, but they cannot patent the whole plant. Do you realise the difference? Maybe you should smoke some marijuana to become a little smarter, "doc" :D. You might become a little greener. Also, if you can see in my post, I talk about the method of observing plants and synthesizing some of the active ingredients and that is how they patent pills containing individual ingredients. They are not doing this because marijuana contains bad cannabinoids. All cannabinoids that have been analyzed show at least several positive effects, non of them show negative effects. The cannabinoid receptors are the most abundant type of receptors in your brain. That's because mother nature has created humans to be healed by plants through cannabinoids. It is blatantly obvious that Big Pharma are patenting such pills and lobbying against marijuana ONLY FOR PROFIT. The industry you are studying to be a part of is one of the most corrupt and evil ones. Sorry dude, hard to swallow, I know. You think you are studying medicine, but in fact you are studying Pharmacology, Pills, Drugs, Synthetics. How to take part of the good stuff from the naturally occurring plants and turn them into profit while making sure the plants themselves are illegal. Big Pharma companies are all shareholdings and all they give a fuck about is their shareholders to be satisfied and to make huge profits. You know this very well but I am sure you find it very hard to admit. Now, please, either apoligize for calling me "so fucking dumb" and admit that you are the dumb one here or go find a natural plant that has been patented and show me the law which says it can. Thank you, "doc". lol.
Zep: When I said I feel obligated to troll, it was a figure of speech
youre fucking dumb as bulgarian mule d smart s, and no one should apolagize for telling the truth
I wish one of your guys had children if I could kick them in the fucking head or stomp on their testicles so you can feel my pain because thats the pain I have waking up everyday -- Mike Tyson
Of course you cannot patent the plant itself, my point is that if that plant had a specific compound that would cure cancer, it would have been extracted and put in a dosage form, or synthesized based on the original compound, etc. Then the pharm companies would patent that particular molecule, and put it through clinical trials. If it could get through all the trials and reach the market, pharm companies would make trillions because obviously nothing cures cancer yet, and this would.
And yes, patents do last 20 years, at least in the US. However the time starts ticking the day it's patented. Once the drug finally reaches the market its about 5 or so years later, so the company would have 15 years of uninterrupted sales from the only drug that cures cancer. Of course after that patents can be extended through patenting enantiomers, providing addition indications for the drug, etc. But that's an entirely different subject.
On January 26 2012 11:31 Luhos wrote:
Of course you cannot patent the plant itself, my point is that if that plant had a specific compound that would cure cancer, it would have been extracted and put in a dosage form, or synthesized based on the original compound, etc. Then the pharm companies would patent that particular molecule, and put it through clinical trials. If it could get through all the trials and reach the market, pharm companies would make trillions because obviously nothing cures cancer yet, and this would.
And yes, patents do last 20 years, at least in the US. However the time starts ticking the day it's patented. Once the drug finally reaches the market its about 5 or so years later, so the company would have 15 years of uninterrupted sales from the only drug that cures cancer. Of course after that patents can be extended through patenting enantiomers, providing addition indications for the drug, etc. But that's an entirely different subject.
I am not gonna argue on the patent thing, maybe you can have for 20 years, I have read that most patents are for 5 or 10 years but w/e.
A bottle of chemotherapy drugs can be as expensive as several thousand dollars. Injections or pills of say THC will go for what - several bucks? And remember that people undergo many chemotherapy sessions. It's a huge billion-dollar business. Moreover, people can easily make their own hemp(marijuana) oil and it will be natural (better absorbed) + will have all other important and helpful cannabinoids and it will be cheaper. If you think that Big Pharma has not thought about these things you are in big deceit. I mean, it is so obvious that they just want to get a patent and increase the price of natural ingredients. Those are not good people. There are other aspects of modern medicine that are great - Surgery for example. They can remove Siam twins (those glued people, maybe another term), they can do all kinds of complex surgeries. Yes, there are pills that help with symptoms and so on but when it comes to cancer drugs, antidepressants and stuff of that nature, Big Pharma is all for the money. There are soooo many natural cures for "uncurable" illnesses but if you haven't researched them you would dismiss them easily. A few years ago I used to think of natural cures like some old lady in a village that gave it to some people and was like "yeah, that proves it cures the illness". But there are many many lab tests, controlled studies, testimonials, books written. They are just not promoted on TV so you wouldn't know about them unless someone tells you or you SPECIFICALLY search for them online. Nature nurtures us, feeds us, gives us water, the Sun gives Life to planets, why is it so difficult for people to realize or at least consider that Nature has given us the tools to cure almost all diseases. There would be a time when some of you will be very ill or your friends and it's good to know how to deal with such tough moments. But the Ego is a huge problem. Brainwashing is another.
"Do you feel sad sometimes? Do you feel bad after work? Many people have the symptoms of sadness syndrom. Why not take this pill and live a happy life? Thousands of people have already tried and experience the wonderful joy in their everyday life. Ask your doctor today."
"Doc, I was at school today and this kid called me fat and I am sad now. Can you give me sumthin'?"
"Yeah sure, you have the sadness syndrom, take this pill bottle, $80."
"What's in it?"
"I dunno. There was a Big Pharma lobbyist and gave me this calendar, the pen, a clock and told me to give people this pill."
"Cool."
Ever been to a doc's office and payed attention to all the gifts? All the top brands. There are ~80 000 lobbyist that do exactly this job.
Zep: When I said I feel obligated to troll, it was a figure of speech
Last edit: 26/01/2012 13:50
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El_Tanque United States. Jan 26 2012 14:15. Posts 360
On January 25 2012 19:14 Night2o1 wrote:
not looking to steal brett's blog thread here lol but I rly wanted to give some quick perspective on El_Tanque's first point
I'm gonna assume weed isn't legal on the state-level where you live.
ok, so pot smokers that you meet are doing/possessing something illegal. non smokers are IMO more likely to:
-rat them out for whatever reason
-be overly flippant/loudmouthed about the topic (ie someone who doesn't smoke hanging out with a smoker who happens to have some pot in their pocket or car -> never know what can happen with a loudmouth around or someone who simply isn't always aware of this specific circumstance of the people they r hanging out with)
smokers might not hang out so much with that group of people because they have an indirect sort of power over them cuz of that. This applies a lot less/not at all if you are already secure/strong friends with a nonsmoker and can trust them.
second thing is that a lot of smokers smoke too much and they spend an inordinate amount of time being high. they don't rly want a nonsmoker around telling them to stop, cuz it feels bad man.
^--- btw I think this problem is made worse by weed not being as easy as going to the corner store to get. It is a lot easier to smoke less when you don't have it sitting in your closet.. but smokers always end up with a Stash, cuz its too inconvenient/dangerous to visit a dealer and transport weed more frequently than necessary
basically it being illegal makes everything suck
ps these are just my views as a semi-rational/not total retard type of guy who's been in this position, no guarantee that these are everyone's reasons
I get what you are saying, but I counter without something else almost exactly like it: Drinking under the age of 21. It's illegal, and on the baseball team, everyone goes out to parties, and (almost) everyone drinks. The 20 and under kids drink with everyone that is 21+.
I hate to say it because it almost nullifies my argument, but you must really be apart a team and have that "locker room bond" to understand. I can tell you that everyone in the locker room knows who does and doesn't smoke, and everyone knows the unwritten rule of not ratting a teammate out.
Thats why (and I know that the consequences of his actions are ALL positive, and it cleaned the sport) Jose Canseco is a little back stabbing bitch. He broke the rule of talking about what happens in a locker room for personal gain by writing "Juice", something that helped end the steroid era, but he broke the rule and is now hated by the baseball community.
Everyone on any baseball team in America knows this, and that is pretty much the one example I can think of where someone let something leak.
Basically, I feel that way because they knowingly separate themselves from the group knowing fully that no one will rat them out.
And they see this all the time because we hide 20 and under kids all the time when parties get busted.
On January 26 2012 02:49 YoMeR wrote:
I think the pharmy arguement is kinda moot...they have the vast means and resources to just dominate the weed market as well...
First, they can't patent it so - no monopoly. Secondly, in just a few years time most people would've learned how to grow it themselves. Nobody wants to give money for something that is easy to grow and have big yields. Thirdly, they would lose BILLIONS of dollars from the anti-depressant industry and other pills that would be waaay less effective than weed. That would also take a few years for people to realize.
In conclusion, Big Pharma would lose tens of billions of dollars every year IF Marijuana is legal. Those people love money more than life, they would eat their shit for that much money. Greed is all around us. Just come and let it snow. :D
Ofc they can patent it. You sure have alot of opinions in areas where you dont even know the basic facts. Very recently the patented drug Sativex got approved in Sweden for treatment of MS. Its a spray containing THC and other cannabis components. You are so fucking dumb if you think the greedy pharmaceutical companies are completely ignoring something that according to you basicly cures cancer. You also clearly no nothing about depression but what else is new.
rofl, green star lol. I am very worried for your future patients. Ofc they can patent the individual cannabindoids, but they cannot patent the whole plant. Do you realise the difference? Maybe you should smoke some marijuana to become a little smarter, "doc" :D. You might become a little greener. Also, if you can see in my post, I talk about the method of observing plants and synthesizing some of the active ingredients and that is how they patent pills containing individual ingredients. They are not doing this because marijuana contains bad cannabinoids. All cannabinoids that have been analyzed show at least several positive effects, non of them show negative effects. The cannabinoid receptors are the most abundant type of receptors in your brain. That's because mother nature has created humans to be healed by plants through cannabinoids. It is blatantly obvious that Big Pharma are patenting such pills and lobbying against marijuana ONLY FOR PROFIT. The industry you are studying to be a part of is one of the most corrupt and evil ones. Sorry dude, hard to swallow, I know. You think you are studying medicine, but in fact you are studying Pharmacology, Pills, Drugs, Synthetics. How to take part of the good stuff from the naturally occurring plants and turn them into profit while making sure the plants themselves are illegal. Big Pharma companies are all shareholdings and all they give a fuck about is their shareholders to be satisfied and to make huge profits. You know this very well but I am sure you find it very hard to admit. Now, please, either apoligize for calling me "so fucking dumb" and admit that you are the dumb one here or go find a natural plant that has been patented and show me the law which says it can. Thank you, "doc". lol.
Why would they want to patent the whole plant? I dont get it? You have said it yourself, pharmaceutical companies analyse compounds from nature, mix with it a bit and sell it like medicine. What makes cannabis diffrent? If cannabis was a miracle cure, they could just creat a drug containing a mix of all cannabinoids proven to be effective and make billions. A little newsflash for you sir. Cannabis is illegal in most countries. The natural alternative for their drug is illegal! Its a fucking jackpot for them. And no, your average joe wont go out of his way breaking the law to obtain something that is the same thing as a pill that he can buy at the pharmacy. When you get a bacterial infection you dont try to lick on mold hoping some of it produces an antibacterial agent. You go to your doctor and he prescribes you antibiotics.
Contrary to your belief, i some weed quite frequently. I dont think it should be illegal, i dont think it does any significant harm and i think the war on drugs is idiotic. I like to get high but i dont put weed on a fucking irrational pedistal.
Idk, its always hard to argue with religious people cause you can never reach them with reason. I dunno why palak bothers really.
so now I am religious? WTF. I've always hated religion with all my heart. And I wasn't talking about average Joe breaking the law. I said that if marijuana is legal and there is the pill version and the plant itself, Big Pharma wouldn't make much money, especially compared to all the drugs that would be replaced by the plant. I didn't think it's that difficult to understand what I mean, but then I again - you think I am religious, so I guess you can't comprehend simple things easily.
Zep: When I said I feel obligated to troll, it was a figure of speech
I have to say I learned a lot from you today - First of all, Nature is a religion. Who would've guessed?Maybe the caves are it's church and the mountain is the God? And also, because weed is not legal in most countries now, we cannot talk or even think about a future moment when it will be. Is that taught in the medical school or is that one of the commandments of Natural Religion? Smart boy, very smart.
Zep: When I said I feel obligated to troll, it was a figure of speech
Sweden. Jan 26 2012 08:24. Posts 9685
