https://www.liquidpoker.net/


LP international    Contact            Users: 501 Active, 2 Logged in - Time: 21:15

Calling 3bets DB check

New to LiquidPoker? Register here for free!
Forum Index > Poker Blogs
LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Jan 03 2010 08:01. Posts 15163
BOOOM. Database check.
I don't expect anyone to read this al, as its super boring. Please just scroll down and answer the couple questions I have prepared for you

Call 3bet preflop





AQ
HAND1: We had quite a history with fellow LPer Lilzhiming at NL25, throwing stacks with QJo and 33 and stuff like that
+ Show Spoiler +


Still this breaks down to one fundamental mistake - I called a 4bet UTG oop with the intention to check fold when I miss and to stack off with hands that are dominated.

HAND2:
+ Show Spoiler +


Unknown, I raise UTG and flat his 3bet 5handed and do nothing in the hand (guess I was delayed floating?)
Well how could I? He was unknown

HAND3-X: Stack offs v shorties/midstacks. AQ is losing me moneyz, is this just variance? Do you stack off v unknown midstacks with AQ?
+ Show Spoiler +



HAND4:
Unknown again, check min raise, I don't see how I can get away from getting stacked, do you guys just fold PF?
+ Show Spoiler +



HAND5&6: I call when deep with the intention of check folding when I don't hit and to stack off with a dominated hand...
22/18 7% 3bet and a sweet spot to 3bet from his perspective.

Hand6 is where I call a 3bet from a total nit
+ Show Spoiler +


+ Show Spoiler +




2) 99
HAND1:
15/15/3/13WTSD 4/31 3bet (14%)
squeeze 1/5 opportunities prior to the hand

This looks so bad omg. This was so horribly misplayed. If I really think he is so wide I can float him for 100bb, this would be a 4bet/call preflop. Not to say my turn bet is retarded.

+ Show Spoiler +


Actually, lets look at 4bet shove as an option, because shoving is sexy, and 4bet calling will have virtually the same effect.
Shoving with hands that need fold equity is essentially a semi-bluff (e.g. any time you are shoving with AK against a regular you are semi bluffing), and shoving with 99 is nothing different in the said situation.


EV(semi-bluff) = X * Dead Money + (1- X) * [Equity * (Dead Money + Bet Size) - (1- Equity) * Bet Size]

Dead money=15

Equity= 35.775%

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 64.225% 64.03% 00.19% 223662072 681114.00 { QQ+, AKs, AKo }
Hand 1: 35.775% 35.58% 00.19% 124285716 681114.00 { 99 }


Bet size= 71.9

Fold Equity = X

EV= X*15 +(1-x)*[0.35775*(15+71.9)-(1-0.35775)*71.9]
0= 15x +(1-x)* (31.088475-46.17775)
0=15x +(1-x)(-15.089275)
0=15x-15.089275+15.089275x
0=30.089275x-15.089275
0=x-0.50149
x=0.50149

50% of the time he has to fold - this should be an easy 4bet/call or direct shove with the information we have at the moment if he calls only QQ+ AK as we are deep. It gets worse if he calls/shoves JJ but folds AQs, but it should still be profitable if I believe he 3bets more than 7% of his hands (88+, ATs+, KTs+, AQo+)

If anything it will be WAY better than calling and spewing like I did in the hand



HAND2:
80bb out the window against unknown.
+ Show Spoiler +



HAND3: I rep the ace, and then CALL when he is making an obvious BLOCKBET? what the fuck.
Don't raise turn or shove river, there is nothing in between and when I have a read I have to go with it when I raise turn.
+ Show Spoiler +





3) Broadways

HAND1-X: I shouldn't go calling KQo against unknown with any other intention to hit 2pair+ when they raise small or to see showdown as cheaply as possible.
Another example of not sticking to my PF plan, and I will be better of just pitching especially the unsuited broadways preflop or go to 4bet/fold.

+ Show Spoiler +


+ Show Spoiler +



HAND2: This is missplayed a lot.
Ok, I call preflop to get a dream flop. Thats why I call, to shove flops like this one. Yet I decide to float.

This is really bad, and I should check flop only if I want a free river card. I put my stack in anyway, but I didn't do it on the flop with 50% equity, but on the turn with 30%.
+ Show Spoiler +




Development Points:
- Don't call 3bets without a plan (plan=c/f on total blanks = 4bet or fold)
- Stick to my plan (99 hand) if I don't have a plan, FOLD PREFLOP.
- don't call 3bets while multitabling, 4bet or fold unless call is the only option.


Questions
1)AQo - do you stack off against random mid stacks at NL50,NL100 when you get 3bet?
2)Can you provide examples of your plan against what villains when calling 3bets preflop other than check fold with broadways etc?
What hands are you calling to a 3bet and why?



P.S. For those that got this far, here is some reward( NSFW), I really appreciate any contribution.

+ Show Spoiler +



0 votes

Facebook Twitter
93% Sure! Last edit: 03/01/2010 08:31

edzwoo   United States. Jan 03 2010 08:55. Posts 5911

Just reading your questions and what not. A little too much text to read the rest.

I'm going to just take a shot in the dark and guess no else on the forum really uses HEM as much as I do to dissect certain kinds of things, and I believe a lot of people are messing up how to interpret some graphs and filters.

In this graph, you're probably instantly thinking you have a leak calling 3bets because your graph is tanking. But the issue is you can't compare this to an above or below $0 bar. Just because your 3bet calling graph is tanking doesn't necessarily mean you're leaking money.

You have to compare your 3bet call graph to your fold to 3bet graph (which will of course be a steady 3-4x bb per hand losing rate). In every 3bet hand, you will start off at a rate of -3 or -4 bb per hand because you already invested your preflop raise.

So take your calling 3bet graph and instead make every one of those hands folds. As opposed to being down 480bbs, you would be down about 4*hands (assuming that's about your average PFR size including isolations and what not), whatever your PFR raise sizing is. Make sense?

So while maybe you have leaks in 3bet pots, you are definitely NOT losing money calling the 3bets in this case. If you had folded, you would have lost more.


LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Jan 03 2010 09:06. Posts 15163

Its PT3 so I am losing 1.66 big blinds per hand as opposed to what I would if I folded?

Thats pretty cool, I didn't include my raise sizes in.

Btw do you think its worth it to switch to HEM from PT3? (I am kinda used to my separate stats boxes and it would take me time to adjust)

I never went into the depth of session analysis and interpreting filers on the other hand, is HEM better in this aspect?



And my win rate is higher than when folding despite the fact that I spew a lot

Raise pf AND fold to 3bet

93% Sure! Last edit: 03/01/2010 09:16

edzwoo   United States. Jan 03 2010 09:25. Posts 5911

Yeah. By default we tend to assume if we folded the hand ends at $0, but it actually just goes into that fold to 3bet graph over there which is pretty nasty.

I've only been using HEM; I think HEM has more filters and stuff though, but unless you're gonna really use and abuse every feature, I would imagine it should make little difference if you switch.

Anyway, database research is my secret!


LemOn[5thF]   Czech Republic. Jan 03 2010 09:34. Posts 15163

Well I don't really care now as I play just for fun and hunting 0.2bb/100 leaks just by spending endless hours trying to understand different filters is not really something I would be thrilled or too eager to do.
But in regards to the future when I want to actually start making money by playing poker, if the better HEM filters will give me as little as 0.1bb/100 extra it would be worth it.

How much time do you think does it take to personalise HEM HUD with stats I want, PT3 doesn't really have an easy interface and I spent like 10 hours just by fiddling with my hud?

And how much do you take for coaching and database check Edzwoo? :o

93% Sure!  

EscapingR   Netherlands. Jan 03 2010 09:53. Posts 2353

nice spoiler :D


qwerty67890   New Zealand. Jan 03 2010 09:59. Posts 14026


  On January 03 2010 08:53 EscapingR wrote:
nice spoiler :D


 



Poker Streams

















Copyright © 2025. LiquidPoker.net All Rights Reserved
Contact Advertise Sitemap