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Art.Cascade   Australia. Oct 03 2012 22:20. Posts 41
I've been a starcraft player since beta (sc1 beta!) and have always seen many tired starcraft players go to poker and earn some money on their skills. Why not me?

So first thing I did was to go to pokerstrategy (because they sponsored TSL3 or something) and find a pretty beginner friendly set of strategy articles, and better yet, some free money that I can get on titan poker. I go through the articles, find out that I should play as a TAG and to the 0.01/0.02 tables I go!

And this what is has come out from the first week or so:

I sit and fold my way through preflop (12% VPIP), following the chart from pokerstrategy. This is what gives the slow declining trend in the red curve above. Folding blinds, or occasionally raising/checking only to fold to the reraise.

Once at flop, I generally fold/check if I don't have a good made hand. Occasionally though I do a continuation bet from a weak made hand or just from position + villian check with nothing (or raise because I actually hit). People sometimes react to cont bet with a raise, which makes it easy for me (fold!), or they fold (yay!). These are the jumps in the red curve.

But most often they just call my cont bets, which just makes me confused... Say that I have pocket pair jacks, i raise preflop, someone calls. Flop is (for example) 2, 6, Q rainbow. I bet about 70% of pot OOP (should I?) to try to figure out if villain hit on the queen or not. Villain call. Another harmless turn. What do I do then? A villian with higher pocket pair or hit on the queen would raise me I assume, but anything lower would probably fold. There are very few draws on the table... AK maybe?

Anyway, a handful of times I actually got a strong made hand on the flop, bet, and got someone to reraise or at least check my bets all the way to showdown. This is the blue curve, and is the reason I am going plus.

I guess I should be happy that I am going plus from day 1, but I still feel completely lost after flop, and the only reason I feel comfortable preflop is that I have my chart to follow... My most subtle play is the occasional continuation bet.

Sometimes I see people coming to my table (I tried playing 2 tables at once, and omg did I get confused!) and play really a lot of hands, VPIP of like 60/70%. And they manage to somehow outplay (or something) the others at the flop and will go from 2 dollars up to 6 or 8 in half an hour, while I take two hours to get from 2 to 3 with some luck. They dont seem like the fishes that dont have any clue, at least not to me. Have these guys understood something about the game that I havent, or are they just lucky? I would like to be able to do that as well!

I guess I should read some articles on basic play on flop. Or at least reread the ones at pokerstrategy. Any other suggestions on articles or other material?

Special thanks to Rapoza for first help, and to Fudyann for recommending fpdb!

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NewbSaibot   United States. Oct 03 2012 23:01. Posts 4939

One of the most common confusing spots fish will play passively in are with weak draws. For instance, on a Q26 flop, if a fish is holding 45o you better believe he's calling. Hell he might call with T9s hoping to hit a backdoor draw of some kind. The other common hand is going to be a pair of course. Depending upon how loose they are will dictate whether or not you can bet JJ on a Queen high board. There are plenty of players I am happy to cbet for VALUE against even if the board reads A782 and all I have is JJ. But to be quite honest, you really cant go wrong with checking back the vast majority of turn cards if you dont like how the hand is progressing. It's very rare for a fish to suddenly pounce on your weakness and bluff you. They wont even read your check as weakness, they'll just see it as another opportunity to hit their draw for cheap. And even if you do get bluffed on occasion, it's not the end of the world. You WILL get bluffed out of very obvious spots where you are giving up sometimes. But dont worry about it, because 90% of the time you'll actually have the goods and be making it back 10x in value bets anyway.

bye now 

NewbSaibot   United States. Oct 03 2012 23:04. Posts 4939

Oh, also regarding the maniacs who crush the table, remember this is only temporary. If you could look up their total winnings they would most likely be huge losers. Yes they seem to do well playing every hand at your table, but it really is just luck. It might work out for them longer at smaller stakes because even though they are playing loose hands, people are paying them off too loosely as well. What usually happens is some fish wins a $20 at NL2 in 30 minutes, then moves up to NL50, puts the whole thing on the table, and loses it back in about 30 seconds. The players are higher limits are simply more experienced and know how to combat this kind of play where smaller players dont.

bye now 

Rinny   United States. Oct 03 2012 23:06. Posts 600

yeah man dont be afraid to check turn. even if they make there hand they are happy to make it 100% obvious to you by betting 80BB into a 20BB pot

Art.Cascade   Australia. Oct 03 2012 23:36. Posts 41

Ok, so checking is probably best at that point?
Is the bet at flop right thing to do?
I realise this depends on their style, but as a new player (amongst other new players...) I have kindof low statistics on almost everyone, even with the HUD.

Good to hear about the maniacs, I'll keep it in mind. Is it fair to compare it to some bad cheesy rush in starcraft, that will win you a lot of games at low levels, but is autoloss at higher levels?

Is there a way for me to try to turn that slope from the blinds around? Like trying to steal blind more often or something. Or should I just accept that I will be paying the price for the blinds to eventually get a good hand that will win me back the money? I would probably be scared to deviate from the preflop chart, which is my only safe ground right now.

thanks for replies!

Rinny   United States. Oct 04 2012 00:13. Posts 600

for that paticular hand it would depend on the stats of the villian yah, you can get a pretty good idea of the way someone plays from a very small amount ih hands ex if they are 75/ 66/ 20 over 30 hands they are either slowplaying a huge rush of cards (super unlikely) or they are a calling station (super likely).

your red line at 2nl is always going to be negative i think because ppl refuse to fold hand so most of your money comes from showdowns w/ premium holdings. As you log a ton of hours you'll notice that there are some other "regs" playing with you that are ultra nitty and have like rediculously high "fold to 3bet" stats so you can take advantage of that by 3betting all day and stealing their blinds as well

(I tried playing 2 tables at once, and omg did I get confused!) and play really a lot of hands,

must be a protoss player lol

Art.Cascade   Australia. Oct 04 2012 00:26. Posts 41

ok, so this is where my noobness shines: what does 75/ 66/ 20 refer to?
I have seen many use xx/yy/zz but never really got what the number were. :/
I guess those three numbers, whatever they are, should go on the HUD? I think I currently use VPIP (what kind of hands will they bring to flop?), AF (will they fold or raise my cont bet?) and number of hands (are the other number reliable?).

And I shouldn't worry too much about losing the blinds, ok. Thanks.

I play zerg! Is there a "1a" strategy in 2nl? Problem with multitabling is probably that I have 500 hands. I still have my chart that I have to look up all the time preflop, and on flop and after I panic entirely. I think (hope!) that I will be able to multitable once I start to understand what to do in the most common situations. Atm almost every flop is a first-time experience for me.

 Last edit: 04/10/2012 00:28

Fujikura   United States. Oct 04 2012 08:25. Posts 1795

xx / yy / zz means VPIP (voluntarily puts $ in pot) / PFR (Pre-flop raise) / 3-Bet

aka SouL)Z(Isadie and SouL)P(Fujikura 

Fujikura   United States. Oct 04 2012 08:27. Posts 1795

also, if I'm not mistaken AF is aggression frequency, which means the ratio between betting/raising or checking/calling a bet So (again, if I'm not mistaken), the higher the number is, the bigger someone's ratio of betting/raising is to calling/checking. I am pretty sure most winning players have a high AF, but there are multiple winning combinations of stats to succeed at poker :D

aka SouL)Z(Isadie and SouL)P(Fujikura 

Art.Cascade   Australia. Oct 04 2012 22:53. Posts 41

ok, thanks Fujikura!

NeillyJQ   United States. Oct 06 2012 17:40. Posts 8947

first 500 hands


x - sc player

i'll bet you make it - only if you follow all the guidelines and play great solid patient poker for a few years

if you listen to that, and continue to get better non stop by posting hh's and watching videos and playing hands, then you will be a super mega baller.


Just remember you need to be god damn sure about their tendencies. -Artanis11 


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