Recently Ted Forrest revealed that Mike Matusow has paid him just $70,000 out of a $1,800,000 debt and that caused a huge discussion in the poker world: should people who try to dodge their debts be outed in public? It looks like the discussion struck few players and we are to witness more issues brought to public attention, this time between two of the top young poker geniuses: Daniel "jungleman12" Cates and Tom "durrrr" Dwan.
The whole uproar is about the famous "durrrr Challenge", where Dwan said he can beat any other online high stakes pro over 50,000 hands and he decided to offer $1,500,000 (on top of the any money won) to the players who manages to do so. If he wins, he would get extra $500,000.
Daniel "jungleman12" Cates was one of the challengers, and the battle began in 2010. It was going quite well: they played 19,335 hands (with jungleman12 being up $1,251,059) and then whole action suddenly died. It looks like Daniel is pushing to finish the challenge, but durrrr is dodging the action: "I would love to continue the challenge, I think Tom is drawing stone dead versus me", Cates told flushdraw.net in a recent interview. "But I think he can't own up to the fact that he's unable to complete it."
But that's not everything: durrrr promised to get back to their fight offered to pay Cates an extra $40,000 for every two months that go by without any action between them. By now, Cates says, Dwan owes him another $300,000 in penalties and refuses to pay.
"He failed to uphold any promises he made to me", Cates told PokerListings in an interview. "He is extremely frustrating, it's outrageous. I feel like he won't complete it", Cates continued. "For now I won't divulge his personal situation. But I'm not thrilled with anything I hear about him, his friend says he won't do business with him anymore because he's totally insane."
* Dwan owes $300,000 in penalties for ducking out of the challenge.
* Cates says "I feel like he won't complete it, for a few reasons, but for now I won't divulge his personal situation. But I'm not thrilled with anything I hear about him."
* Cates confirmed he was involved in the cross-booked prop bet of Dwan vs the HU limit bot. (Dwan beat the bot).
* Dwan may have won $1.5 million from the side bets, but Cates apparently hasn't paid up his share because "Since I have good reason to think he is unable to complete the challenge at all, I am deducting it from what he owes me."
* Dwan doesn't respond to Cates's phone calls/texts.
* Cates says "In the future I won't be doing any business with him unless there is some kind of guarantee or escrow."
Ryan Neilly United States. Sep 23 2014 21:10. Posts 1631
dwan is not a ftp pro anymore, wasn't this all for FTP? or was this all to feed his ego?
1
Nitewin United States. Sep 23 2014 21:13. Posts 1539
It was to get people to play him at nosebleed stakes so he could make money. He couldn't beat this guy and had a way out of the bet, who wouldn't take it?
Cates has a valid point but at the same time a lot has changed since 2010. It prob sucks to leave a few mil on a pokersite you no longer play on (afaik?) when you're grinding a lot of live poker. Black friday changed a ton of things for players... now Dwan can only play when both him and Cates are outside USA without other obligations. That just sucks! Also, Cates is one angry and egotistical dude... how do you think the phone calls and texts they had went? Only 1 side of the story.
if poker is dangerous to them i would rank sports betting as a Kodiak grizzly bear who smells blood after you just threw a javelin into his cub - RaiNKhAN
On September 23 2014 22:38 ggplz wrote:
Cates has a valid point but at the same time a lot has changed since 2010. It prob sucks to leave a few mil on a pokersite you no longer play on (afaik?) when you're grinding a lot of live poker. Black friday changed a ton of things for players... now Dwan can only play when both him and Cates are outside USA without other obligations. That just sucks! Also, Cates is one angry and egotistical dude... how do you think the phone calls and texts they had went? Only 1 side of the story.
What in the fuck, Dan is 100% right in everything he is doing, he is egoitistical? who gives a shit Dwan is stealing from him, and we only know one side of the story because Dwan hasnt said shit about if for 4 years.
On September 23 2014 22:38 ggplz wrote:
Cates has a valid point but at the same time a lot has changed since 2010. It prob sucks to leave a few mil on a pokersite you no longer play on (afaik?) when you're grinding a lot of live poker. Black friday changed a ton of things for players... now Dwan can only play when both him and Cates are outside USA without other obligations. That just sucks! Also, Cates is one angry and egotistical dude... how do you think the phone calls and texts they had went? Only 1 side of the story.
What in the fuck, Dan is 100% right in everything he is doing, he is egoitistical? who gives a shit Dwan is stealing from him, and we only know one side of the story because Dwan hasnt said shit about if for 4 years.
On September 23 2014 22:38 ggplz wrote:
Cates has a valid point but at the same time a lot has changed since 2010. It prob sucks to leave a few mil on a pokersite you no longer play on (afaik?) when you're grinding a lot of live poker. Black friday changed a ton of things for players... now Dwan can only play when both him and Cates are outside USA without other obligations. That just sucks! Also, Cates is one angry and egotistical dude... how do you think the phone calls and texts they had went? Only 1 side of the story.
What in the fuck, Dan is 100% right in everything he is doing, he is egoitistical? who gives a shit Dwan is stealing from him, and we only know one side of the story because Dwan hasnt said shit about if for 4 years.
How can people excuse him its beyond me.
I don't follow the pro drama much but wasn't there a bunch of rumors Durrr was busto? Not much he can do to finish the challenge if that's the case.
Hey Im slinging mad volume and fat stackin benjies I dont got time for spellin n shit - skinny pete
1
Santafairy Korea (South). Sep 24 2014 04:48. Posts 2226
i can accept dwan doesn't want to play on ftp or whatever and his schedule (maybe he is insane he only played the main event at WSOP) and his money is tied up elsewhere but honestly find a way to settle
It seems to be not very profitable in the long run to play those kind of hands. - Gus Hansen
On September 23 2014 22:38 ggplz wrote:
Cates has a valid point but at the same time a lot has changed since 2010. It prob sucks to leave a few mil on a pokersite you no longer play on (afaik?) when you're grinding a lot of live poker. Black friday changed a ton of things for players... now Dwan can only play when both him and Cates are outside USA without other obligations. That just sucks! Also, Cates is one angry and egotistical dude... how do you think the phone calls and texts they had went? Only 1 side of the story.
What in the fuck, Dan is 100% right in everything he is doing, he is egoitistical? who gives a shit Dwan is stealing from him, and we only know one side of the story because Dwan hasnt said shit about if for 4 years.
On September 23 2014 22:38 ggplz wrote:
Cates has a valid point but at the same time a lot has changed since 2010. It prob sucks to leave a few mil on a pokersite you no longer play on (afaik?) when you're grinding a lot of live poker. Black friday changed a ton of things for players... now Dwan can only play when both him and Cates are outside USA without other obligations. That just sucks! Also, Cates is one angry and egotistical dude... how do you think the phone calls and texts they had went? Only 1 side of the story.
What in the fuck, Dan is 100% right in everything he is doing, he is egoitistical? who gives a shit Dwan is stealing from him, and we only know one side of the story because Dwan hasnt said shit about if for 4 years.
How can people excuse him its beyond me.
Yeah, he is egotistical and unable to control his anger. Still, we're only getting 1 side and Dwan has definitely talked with Jungleman in that time ofc. Technically Dwan is postponing it with an agreement to pay penalties in the meantime from a debt Jungleman already owes Dwan. That isn't stealing. Jungleman thinks he has a huge edge and even if he didn't and it was just too difficult to complete the bet nowadays I don't think he would settle for a reasonable amount. They definitely should settle tho or find a way to play it out.
if poker is dangerous to them i would rank sports betting as a Kodiak grizzly bear who smells blood after you just threw a javelin into his cub - RaiNKhAN
i thought all of this stuff was escrowed, dan is 100% right here. He should be able to take this to an American court, the bet was highly publicized and the details are available online. Tom is clearly being an asshole, I'm sure at the time of the bet he was willing to pay (money was rolling in), maybe he hasn't recovered properly post ilisdur1 era
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light not our darkness that most frightens us and as we let our own lights shine we unconsciously give other people permision to do the same
Recently Ted Forrest revealed that Mike Matusow has paid him just $70,000 out of a $1,800,000 debt and that caused a huge discussion in the poker world: should people who try to dodge their debts be outed in public? It looks like the discussion struck few players and we are to witness more issues brought to public attention, this time between two of the top young poker geniuses: Daniel "jungleman12" Cates and Tom "durrrr" Dwan. 
Canada. Sep 24 2014 10:00. Posts 20070
