Bloated Pot Spots (Part 1 of Possibly Many)

Kinda wanna get a little discussion going, since a lot of this is shit you never see online. I guess I'll give a few examples of gross spots:

Soft live $5/10 game. All villans in this hand seem bad in different ways, mostly being too loose preflop. For the most part lets say most of these guys are unknown to you. Villan #1 opens to $30 in ep, w $2,500 effective stack. Villan #2 calls behind him ($1800 stack). Villan #3 calls in the CO ($700 stack) and Villan #4 ($1500 stack) calls on the button. You are in the BB with and squeeze to $200. You cover all. Villan #1,2,3, and 4 all call. $1k in pot (lol, nice game eh?). Lets talk about 3 different flops:

Stacks:
BB- Hero ($3,000)
UTG+2- Villan #1 ($2,500)
MP- Villan #2 ($1,800)
CO- VIllan #3 ($700)
BTN- Villan #4 ($1500)


Flop: (Pot: $1,000)
Overall gameplan for some outcomes on a flop like this?

Flop: (Pot: $1,000)
Lets make it harder, how about this flop?

Flop: (Pot: $1,000)
This?

squeeze bigger pre ?

200 Is already pretty big I think, big enough that it usually wont go 4 way at least.



First flop I would probably lead 500 and fold to a raise from v1, but stack off to one of the other three, just because of them shoving draws.

Second no clue, check fold probably, except maybe call the shortstack.

Third I would lead out really small, like 300.

betting every flop. how is this even a question?

all in every flop

i hope there will be only 1 part.

On November 20 2011 06:51 wobbly_au wrote: betting every flop. how is this even a question?

Whats your sizing and your plan vs each villan on these flops? Like are you just betting pot in every pot and seat-belting your hand from there?

In flop 2 a good play would be to bet, accidentally flip over the Kd then when he shoves flip the other card over and go "GOTCHA BITCH"

actually this is a great topic.

I reviewed it for a second time, now I like check shoving all boards regardless of what the action is when it gets back to you.

On November 20 2011 18:30 n0rthf4ce wrote: In flop 2 a good play would be to bet, accidentally flip over the Kd then when he shoves flip the other card over and go "GOTCHA BITCH"

lol this is kinda genius

cbetting every flop between $300-$450 depending on texture. beyond that, there are sooooo many situations that can arise. But i'm cbetting because i'm pretty happy with getting it in vs most the situations that can come after your cbet. Your odds to call a shove are going to get better and better for every all in so even if people show a ton of strength you will still be calling alot of the time.

I'd squeeze like a boss as well, like at least $260 because this is live poker.

On November 19 2011 15:27 MiPwnYa wrote: squeeze bigger pre ?

Maybe to get more value, getting this 5 ways vs fish isn't a bad thing.

On November 20 2011 06:51 wobbly_au wrote: betting every flop. how is this even a question?

This. Hand 3 maybe we can bet 1/3 pot and possibly fold w/ too much action or a read, but the other two I don't see any other choice than betting close to pot and going with it. I hate checking, there's just too great a chance all these fish will just check behind.

I want to talk more about what to do vs action from the different stacks after the flop bet.

It's really not that deep. Just call everything.

all of ur posts in highstakes is really really bad.. u ask the wrong questions. These 3 are super standard ABC spot to just bet other than hand 3 ur play should be pretty straight forward.. a 1/2 reg can tell u that.

its pretty much a betcall on all boards except sick reads and the only perosn im ever considering folding against HU on certains boards is the 2500 stack. if he didnt exist i would betcall a jam 100% as long as everyone else folds also my sizing would be around 480 or so on every board except the #2 id go like 580 then

too vague of a question i think...depends too much

I suppose, I guess I would need to describe each villan more indepth, or maybe just start off w one flop. Most live players seem on the passive side in these spots, with their preflop thinking being that they want to flop something big before getting the moneys in. To make matters worse, when you bet on all these flops your hand insta looks like exactly what it is. It's not like your fooling someone into thinking that your cbetting AK on these boards, or that KK is going to be underepped by any means. With that said, bet / dying to everyone who raises on flop #2 feels really really bad for those reasons (which is kinda why I posed the question). And betting flop #3 is awkward because are we betting again on blank turns? Like say you bet $350, and Villan #1 calls. Are you barreling a turn 4? For value (vs his flatted JJ/QQ hands?) And if you check I guess it's to check/fold to Villan #1's turn bet? Flop 3 seems like a spot where you're only getting two streets. Most of the interesting spots come vs Villan #1 on these flops since his actions will be the most straight forward (having to worry about the 3 people behind him etc...)

Bet / stacking off on flop #1 seems kinda standard / obv. Flop #2 and #3 are the ones that are more interesting.

Betting / stacking vs all on any flop becomes more standard when your opponents are going to properly jam any decent piece of the flop / draws etc, they pick up. For the most part, these are not the type of people I'm talking about.

Betting with AK on flops 1 and 2 is terrible because players call and shove with a lot more than just sets which is why bet/calling with KK is so profitable. I don't see why flop 2 is so different from flop 1.

I think bet/bet and bet/call are both fine on flop 3. The only way I'm folding is with a live read or multiple action.

this is live poker and while a lot of the lines mentioned play well online because of peoples more polarized ranges for getting hands into the pot, in a live game people are playing very predictably in tons of spots.

So in hand one I think is the easiest check from all three on the flop. You check so your opponents will think your range is immedietly weaker then it seems and adjust incorrectly by playing their weaker part of their range more aggressively, and any hand that would be calling on the flop is very likely to betting when its checked to them, this with the possibility of making a hero muck with some insane action, (like player 3 and player 4 putting in money into the pot and you still and you still have player 1 and 2 behind you) also dont just assume that if player 2 or 3 bet and everyone folds your entitled to just check the turn again.

Hand two is different. I think this flop is a mantatory bet, live players will often check back hands like 8T, TJ, QT, Q9, and some flush draws.

While what i said may seem like it contradicts each other becuase you would assume the same opponents are likely to check back similar hands on both boards, I think the two boards play out differently, while their is a higher total hand combination of draws, the draws are a lot less deceptive in comparison. In hand number one a Q,9,7,4 all complete open enders and double guttshots, while in hand two only a Q and a J would make a deceptive straight, and all the remaining cards that complete draws are very obvious scare cards, basically what im trying to say is live players are way more likely to bet a boards with deceptive hand value then a board where the all the draws are obvious.

In the third hand i personally like to bet the flop small, like 250. I think checking back on the flop would be bad, if it gets checked around and the turn comes 8, T, J , Q, K, and A you lose your market for all the hands that would of floated you. also its much easier to get your opponents to make a mistake in a HU pot on the turn, then a multi way pot on the turn.