why do people shortstack?

I don't get it, it seems like every table on stars has at LEAST 1 or 2 shortstacking, and sometimes everybody is. But all these guys ever do is fold, fold, fold and then randomly shove Ax PF (and suckout grrr). Does anyone make any money doing this? Are they somehow aware of how bad they are, but just playing for fun so they want to minimize their losses? Or they just decided at some point that they hate post flop play and want to avoid it entirely? It really makes no sense to me.

they make a very marginal winning in profit, possibly even breakeven, but they get their money from bonuses.

because in theory it's slightly +ev, but in reality rake owns the EV there is in shortstacking.
so reason is fpp/rakeback imo

Some people shortstack successfully at higher limits. At lower limits a lot of the people who do this don't really understand stack sizes, and their exposure to poker is largely through televised tournaments. They see an Ace in their hand and know that's good against a random distribution and shove. You can often tell professional shortstackers from clueless fish by their buy-in size. Pro's usually buy-in for exactly 20bb, fish buy in for random amounts. In my experience people who buy in for weird amounts like 37.5bb are extremely profitable to play against on all streets, including preflop.

bullshit good shortstackers are making BANK

you guys ever played with the kids who successfully shortstack 5/10? fucking sick life they are good at what they do

On November 16 2008 16:43 [vital]Myth wrote: bullshit good shortstackers are making BANK you guys ever played with the kids who successfully shortstack 5/10? fucking sick life they are good at what they do

That makes sense at least considering they can actually beat the rake. At low limits I'd assume that's a lot more difficult to do.

yeah i'm just talking about lower limits here. What makes it so good on higher limits, then? do people just underestimate them?

people are just dumb and somehow still haven't figured out how to play well vs 20bb stacks

OR

people have to just raise a lot of hands and if the shorty shoves, then fuck it they just fold, but they still have to raise a lot of hands against everyone else at the table

it's time for the green stars to explain to the community how to play perfectly vs the shortstackers imo.
It's not like they are going to hurt themselves by explaining how to beat something they will never do amirite?

gogogo

because if u were good at it u could make a lot of money without thinking, now 50bb tables are common in higher stakes, and at lower stakes the rate is huge

On November 16 2008 17:01 lebowski wrote: it's time for the green stars to explain to the community how to play perfectly vs the shortstackers imo. It's not like they are going to hurt themselves by explaining how to beat something they will never do amirite? gogogo

I agree, i am curious as well!

back in the days on ipoker when I was playing fullring, and Naranjito + myself was among the top regulars, there was one shortstacker that had a very sick bb/100, even thou he was so tight that you could profitable fold AK vs his early position raise. People, even some of the good regulars, stacked off vs him with hands that wasnt even close to beat his range and didnt have close to good odds to make the call. + He played max amount of tables (16) 2-4 to 5-10 and like 12 hours per day. But I guess people have begun to figure out how to play shortstackers at least a little bit more than 1 year ago.

I'm shortstacking on PlayersOnly to clear the bonus on there right now actually.

24 tables of 20bb poker is so easy to beat the rake when people call your shoves with like ATo and QJo and shit just because they are getting 1.5:1 or whatever. You have to be REALLLLLLLY nitty, but people still pay you off for some reason if they are the PFR. For some reason they don't like calling openings from the SS, though, so there is still FE in LP and I get away with stealing SO many hands in the CO and BU. That just keeps me ahead of the blinds and the rest of the EV is profit, pretty much. I could probably play more +EV but this more than does the trick for my purposes.

Most common leak people have against shortstackers is that they don't give the shortstacker enough respect.

They're like ok so I raised T9s 3bb and this shorty motherfucker 20bb shoves over. Ah fuck it gamboool. But in the end they lose a lot of money to the shortstackers. The trick is that you need to know which range they shove with and call if your hand beats their range. It's that simple. DOn't get it in light against them. Something like AJ+ 88+ should be fine.

Also, if there's a lot of shortstacks on the table and for some reason you don't want to leave, start raising to 2,5bb or something preflop (especially if they're in the blinds). Most shortstacks play like 12/12 so all they do is play 12% of their hands and it doesn't matter what amount you raise preflop. They'll either fold or shove preflop anyway. Just make it 2,5 times and they'll fold as many times as when you raise 3bb.

i def think we should all educate everyone on playing against shortstacks out of spite and since it doesn't hurt us. because seriously i hate them and it just hurts my winrate so lets hurt theirs right back =|

i g2g do some shit atm but ill checkup later on this thread and see if theres anything i can add to it.

beating a "good" shortstackers is the easist shit ever, just to to Stove, figure out what their normal PFR ranges are, and call only with hands that do good against his range considering the original raise ammoung, easy -.-

So basically all u need is 30mins playing on Pokerstove and a few calculations and thats it.

Having short stackers at your table is kinda nice sometimes. If you have a few to your left and some easy player to your right. You're going to be at a table with almost zero hard decisions. Just gotta know their range and beat it. Fairly simple.

On November 16 2008 19:38 Baal wrote: beating a "good" shortstackers is the easist shit ever, just to to Stove, figure out what their normal PFR ranges are, and call only with hands that do good against his range considering the original raise ammoung, easy -.- So basically all u need is 30mins playing on Pokerstove and a few calculations and thats it.

No, beating a good shortstacker in a 6-max game with several fullstacked players is actually pretty difficult.
A good shortstacker follows whats going on at the table and is adapting their range.

They make money in the higher stakes games because most people who play fullstacked arent able to always adjust their preflop raising range when there is a shorstack still in. Players often raise a range that is good for deep game but exploitable in a 20bb game eventhough they know the proper adjustment, they just often forget about the shortstacker being in the game or they simply want to play their nice 87s type of hand vs a deepstacked weaker opponent in the big blind and simply hope the shortstacker in the small blind wont have a hand this time or whatever. However, the good shortstacker is often able to figure such things out and capitalize on it even if he doesnt have a strong hand.

plus if u are only focused on beating the shorties (or at least losing the least), then u will be making less money off the other guys at the table

also taking in mind that even if u get it in a slightly EV- spot, the fact that if you loose he will leave and open a spot for a full stacker negates the slight loss.