PLO H/L Strategy/Hand Discussion

Didn't have too many really interesting hands last night. I did play a lot tighter in PLO H/L and feel I overall played a lot better.

Here is one hand I played in PLO High that might be good for discussion.

I've never played with this Villain before but he is supposedly a very good PLO reg who mostly travels the live circuit and plays some online. He's had some deep runs in big buy in PLO events.

Anyway, on to the hand:

I have a little over $900 in front of me to start the hand and the Villain covers.

No straddle, 2 players limp for $5 UTG (Villain) and UTG+2, folds to CO who is a pretty loose recreational player and he raises to $20.

I am on the BT with and flat. Both limpers call behind.

Flop is

checks to original raiser who bets $70

I flat, Villain calls, UTG+2 folds.

Turn

Villain lead pots for $310, PFR folds, I call.

I decide that when Villain lead pots turn like this into 2 other players, it's pretty much always 9Txx or 9Txx with spades. So with that in mind I think shoving the turn is pretty bad. I think also if he has 9Txx with no re-draws there are a lot of rivers I can bluff as well.

River

Villain checks. I think for a bit and pot all in for $600ish.

This river seems like one of the best cards for me to bluff when he checks. Thoughts?

600+310+70+20=,1000
edit: nevermind I was thinking about it while taking a shower and I'm not sure now , 8am here I need to sleep

Omaha Hi Simulation ?
281,040 trials (Exhaustive)
board: Kd8s7c6s
Hand Equity Wins Ties
9dTd8h2h 45.16% 0 253,808
9T 54.84% 27,232 253,808


edited with right board

River bet is more like 2/3 of the pot. I'd like your plan if you had an actual PSB or possibly slightly more to bet on the river, but if it really is only 600 in 900 left, shoving the turn is much better, while he usually had T9 there is also a decent chance he doesn't, in which case you are slightly ahead and he will probably outplay you on river.

Seems silly to defend this kind of hand against a good competent reg.

I guess you are bluffing to try to get him off a split....but I think if you go through the step of seeing things from his point of view, I don't think you have many strong hands at all.

On May 29 2013 16:06 mnj wrote: Seems silly to defend this kind of hand against a good competent reg. I guess you are bluffing to try to get him off a split....but I think if you go through the step of seeing things from his point of view, I don't think you have many strong hands at all.

folding pre from the button is terribad
and obviously he can have a lot of strong hands river.
wtf do you even play omaha ? Oo

for nlhe : 95o vs top 100% : 42% vs 58%
.................. vs top 10% : 27.5% vs 72.5%

for plo : T98ss vs top 100% : 50% vs 50%
....................vs top 10% : 41% vs 59%

definitely not the same no.
against this vilain 3b > fold > call but I never fold in a live game this hand where ppl have absolutely no clue how to play omaha.

On May 31 2013 14:05 waga wrote: I never fold in a live game this hand where ppl have absolutely no clue how to play omaha.

I think this is the single most important advice to playing PLO live, especially if the game is very passive (happens often, at least in my experience). You can see flops so cheaply and just get away if you're non-(near)nutted.

Never folding this hand pre in a deep live game, almost always 3b or calling and in this spot probably calling. As played I love the shove. It's a win/win as either u win the pot or if he calls its a great image builder and you get paid later.

Btw I expect him to call and always call in this spot or fold and always fold in this spot. Live PLO players fall into these categories most of the time

Haha didn't mean to confuse you Lex

On May 21 2013 17:58 MezmerizePLZ wrote: I would fold this hand pre. Ur potential high hands and potential low hands are both not that strong.

On May 21 2013 18:01 MezmerizePLZ wrote: I've only played limit omaha H/L but in a ring game, i think you can be very selective preflop with hands alot of the time. Its probably really important to be drawing to clean lows

I pretty much had this in mind when I read OP. Would love to read more PLO8 spots if you come across more

Alright guys I got two more hands I'm going to post: one high low and one high

In the process of putting them up now

Ok the first hand is a H/L hand. Villain in this hand is a good thinking live reg that is definitely capable of bluffing in good spots but generally just always shows up with the nuts.

I have

$15 button straddle, Villain raises to $50 UTG+1, I flat MP, CO flats

Flop , Villain bets $115, I flat, CO folds

Turn , Villain bets $225, I flat

River

Villain bets $450

Hero?
(I have $700ish behind and Villain has me covered)

I think flop and turn are pretty standard. Pre flop I could see an argument for 3 betting. On the river I'm pretty lost on what to do. His sizing also confused me a lot since he's betting $450 into about $850 when he could just pot and put me all in.

This next hand is a PLO High hand. Villain in this hand is also a good thinking player with more of an online background. We are pretty good friends and always seem to "go after" each other as a result of both of us being very competitive. I don't know if that factors into his play in this hand or not though. The guy in MP is a guy I've never played with before but seems weaker/recreational.

$10 button straddle, I have on CO, Villain raises from UTG to $40, HJ flats, I flat in CO, straddle calls.

Flop

Villain checks, MP bets $100, I call, straddle folds, raiser calls

Turn

Raiser checks, MP bets $100, I call, Villain goes all in for $600ish. MP tanks for awhile and folds. Hero?


Villain and I have about the same amount to start the hand. I really was kind of lost in this hand on the turn. I felt the flop was pretty standard. I considered jamming turn but wanted to keep in worse hands. What do you guys think?

Comments for all streets are appreciated, thanks

Hand1: AA2 is basically the nuts and you want just AA to have a decent chance of winning high so I definitely 3bet pre to get it hu. I think I just fold river since you have the Ad diamond blocker and both aces block A23. If he's got a lot of wrap type hands in his range then he's pretty bad.

Hand2: Bleh I just call. Seems like villain has AQ or AA a lot and you don't quite have odds, but it's kind of a weird spot and I don't like folding hands that good in weird spots.

hand 2:
you have to call 500 for a 1750ish pot ?
In vilain' shoes I would be piss off if you think about it more than 3 seconds

You have 25% against a non bluffing range :AA,AQ,88,33,QQ
22% against : AA , AQ
and both MP and you show weakness on the turn , I would be shocked if you have less than 30% here.

On July 02 2013 20:17 waga wrote: hand 2: you have to call 500 for a 1750ish pot ? In vilain' shoes I would be piss off if you think about it more than 3 seconds You have 25% against a non bluffing range :AA,AQ,88,33,QQ 22% against : AA , AQ and both MP and you show weakness on the turn , I would be shocked if you have less than 30% here.

appears to be 500 into 1250ish

so we need 500/1750 = 28.5% , sorry if I wasn't clear.

As think as a general rule of thumb you're gonna be way nittier in hand selection for PLO8 than PLO...esp in multiway pots. you don't want to have 2nd nuts + 2nd nuts and just get scooped by 2 other players.

hand #1 I think is a pretty clear 3bet pre unless you have a good reason not to. You'll be able to take this hand to war on so many boards.

hand #2 I think this is a pretty easy call unless villain in hand is really on the nitty side. You do have a lot of wrap + FD hands dominated and are drawing live even against strong made hands.

In general I think just 3 betting a higher frequency than not in omaha w position is so good...ppl tend to react so poorly vs them