KK on Very Coordinated Turn vs Fish

Submitted by : hiems

***** Hand History for Game 41325365470 ***** Poker Stars
$10.00 USD NL Texas Hold'em - Wednesday, March 17, 11:51:23 ET 2010
Table Belgica Real Money
Seat 4 is the button
Seat 1: cepikli $8.60 USD
Seat 2: SandlerJ74 $45.50 USD
Seat 4: Crickles Guy $4.05 USD
Seat 5: wucc88 $16.75 USD
Seat 6: Hero $13.10 USD
wucc88 posts small blind [$0.05 USD].
Hero posts big blind [$0.10 USD].

Holecards
Dealt to Hero [ ]
cepikli calls [$0.10 USD]
SandlerJ74 folds
Crickles Guy calls [$0.10 USD]
wucc88 calls [$0.05 USD]
Hero raises [$0.70 USD]
cepikli calls [$0.70 USD]
Crickles Guy folds
wucc88 folds

Flop (Pot : $1.60)

   
Hero bets [$1.50 USD]
cepikli calls [$1.50 USD]

Turn (Pot : $4.60)

   
Hero checks
cepikli checks

River (Pot : $4.60)

   
Hero checks
cepikli bets [$2.50 USD]
Hero folds
cepikli wins $2.50 USD
cepikli wins $4.60 USD from main pot

Posting this really fast, but not betting turn is absolutely tragic and scared money.

Okay so now that I said that, I'm not really sure what you mean by, "is your range exploitable." I mean, in a technical sense it shows that someone could potential bomb you off Kings, but nobody is going to do that, and nobody in the right mind should try to get you off Kings at this limit.

You're thinking WAY too hard about this. What does your range matter when your opponent probably isn't even thinking on that level? What you should be worried about right now is if you bet that turn, will you get called by worse? The answer is yes, so you bet. Is your hand as dominating as something like the nut flush? No it's not, but you can still expect to show a profit by betting so you do it.

Would that change at all if Js?

or 8s?

Absolutely it changes because of two things

1. Now we're probably losing to our opponent's range with those two cards.
2. It's extremely hard to get called by worse.

it doesn't change. the kid is playing 80% of his hands and you have an over pair. You are thinking wayyyyyyyyy too hard here.

EDIT: you sure edzwoo? kids 80/5...

it definitely changes against "better" opponents, but 80vpip is retarded.

Yeah our opponent is terrible but a 789Tsss board is absolutely horrid.

true, but I'd rather b/f->c/f turn/river on that board because I really doubt he's folding a ten or even good nines.

Against a random range of every single Tx including T2o no spade (only Tx not including flush draws), we are only flipping on a board that has 789Tsss

But anyway the real problem here that most micro stakes players have (I had the same problem) is that you guys are looking for reasons to make big folds. I know when my friends see that Qs, the first thought in their head is, "oh man flush got there and board is scary instacheck."

The first thing in my head is "what worse hands will call me if I bet."

Priorities are getting mixed up. Think about what hands you still beat and can get value from, and THEN think about what hands now beat you.

wow, didn't know it was that close o.o

and yeah, stop being pussies guys. VALUEBET

You really need to bet the turn. Not doing so puts you in a lot of really shitty situations of your own creation.

He'd call with any spade though and it would have hit so... bet/fold the turn, check/fold the river, you're out of position here and there's too much on the board.

--- Nuked ---

Hm K.

Just to clarify tho, even if for example the hands we beat are only like ~45%...we can still profitably GAIN from a value bet because of the dead money we win if he folds correct? Im guessing this would apply to this particular spot.

And yeah Im thinking way too hard about stuff. Just that I finished a book recently and I want to try and put the concepts I learned in practice.

And yeah, I folded river. The guy had been so passive postflop as well that theres no way he doesn't have a flush there.

And don't we have to snap off a bet if we get c/r on this turn?

1) Yes, bet fold.
2) lol

On March 18 2010 11:38 hiems wrote: Hm K. Just to clarify tho, even if for example the hands we beat are only like ~45%...we can still profitably GAIN from a value bet because of the dead money we win if he folds correct? Im guessing this would apply to this particular spot. And yeah Im thinking way too hard about stuff. Just that I finished a book recently and I want to try and put the concepts I learned in practice. And yeah, I folded river. The guy had been so passive postflop as well that theres no way he doesn't have a flush there.

The hands that you beat are far less than 45%, this guy is betting strong on a river that's got 4 spades on it. He's not bluffing. The hands you beat here are 0%.

On the turn a value bet is worth it even though he'd probably call with any spade. The times he doesn't, he'll put you on one and fold.

45% I was talking about a hypothetical turn calling range.

On March 18 2010 11:39 hiems wrote: And don't we have to snap off a bet if we get c/r on this turn?

if he's passive postflop like you said you have to snap fold to a turn raise

jam the turn, hes calling with pair + spade / pair + straight draw 100% of the time
hes also not folding Tx ever
your equity against his calling range is going to be about 60% but that's fine

hes playing 80% of his hands, his range is so enormous his stack wise is 86bb, you setup a decent turn shove (a little overbet but villian dosnt care)

as played its obv a fold but you gotta jam the turn IMO