rrpot 200bb w/ KK

Villain stats are 15/13/3.7 F3 58 760 hands, my image is pretty TAG, 3bet pretty much this session, but im not sure this guy is even thinking about that.

What u guys are thinking about this line ?

Submitted by : ManYac

***** Hand History for Game 3201166955 ***** (Prima)
$200.00 USD NL Texas Holdem - Thursday, March 11, 04:24:34 ET 2010
Table Dandanaqan (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Seat 1: styre4vilt ( $417.90 USD )
Seat 2: Acinna84 ( $200.00 USD )
Seat 3: BulbikRubika ( $256.50 USD )
Seat 4: Hero ( $501.45 USD )
Seat 5: sainttropez ( $209.75 USD )
Seat 6: dimaf7 ( $205.35 USD )
sainttropez posts small blind [$1.00 USD].
dimaf7 posts big blind [$2.00 USD].

Holecards
   
styre4vilt raises [$8.00 USD]
Acinna84 folds
BulbikRubika folds
Hero raises [$24.00 USD]
sainttropez folds
dimaf7 folds
styre4vilt calls [$16.00 USD]

Flop (Pot : $51.00)

   
styre4vilt checks
Hero bets [$28.00 USD]
styre4vilt raises [$72.00 USD]
Hero calls [$44.00 USD]

Turn (Pot : $195.00)

   
styre4vilt bets [$104.00 USD]
Hero calls [$104.00 USD]

River (Pot : $403.00)

   
styre4vilt bets [$217.90 USD]
Hero folds
styre4vilt wins $617.90 USD from main pot

if u call turn, call river..

My plan was to call turn and call diamond or K river and I thought there was decent change he will slow down on river without some kind of nuts. Dont u think he would bet turn with pretty wider range then bet river ?

So deep I would probably 3bet a bit more pf, and certainly bet more on flop.
After 760h u should have some reads about how he is playing. Is he capable of ch/r with FD on flop ?
Without reads I would 3bet flop probably.

hes nit, hes not shoving worse
99 or flush, wp imo

when a nit start jamming in this much money so happily i start getting scared cuz i no longer have the biggest dick in the hand

I'd either shove or fold on turn a lot I think, but that's debatable. Not a fan of call turn fold river, who the hell bluffs half pot anyway? I'd fold turn and if my read is good I pitch it on the flop some % too. Probably not vs this guy though.

On March 13 2010 02:51 DustySwedeDude wrote: I'd either shove or fold on turn a lot I think, but that's debatable. Not a fan of call turn fold river, who the hell bluffs half pot anyway? I'd fold turn and if my read is good I pitch it on the flop some % too. Probably not vs this guy though.

I don't get what read I can have on anyone that would make me 3B KK pre and fold on this flop. Or this turn. Or this river. If you don't think you can't ever get paid off by worse in 3B pot when you have KK versus this villain, then don't 3B pre. I mean seriously, why are we 3betting pre-flop if we aren't super happy to get it in on lowcard boards. If you need a bit of peace for the soul, 3B a bit more pre to cut down on set mining odds if that is what you are worried about. I really don't get playing KK like this and then not being able to stand the heat and take it to the felt post-flop.

I hero call.

And how come we have no reads after 700+ hands?

On March 15 2010 00:09 phexac wrote: Show nested quote + On March 13 2010 02:51 DustySwedeDude wrote: I'd either shove or fold on turn a lot I think, but that's debatable. Not a fan of call turn fold river, who the hell bluffs half pot anyway? I'd fold turn and if my read is good I pitch it on the flop some % too. Probably not vs this guy though. I don't get what read I can have on anyone that would make me 3B KK pre and fold on this flop. Or this turn. Or this river. If you don't think you can't ever get paid off by worse in 3B pot when you have KK versus this villain, then don't 3B pre. I mean seriously, why are we 3betting pre-flop if we aren't super happy to get it in on lowcard boards. If you need a bit of peace for the soul, 3B a bit more pre to cut down on set mining odds if that is what you are worried about. I really don't get playing KK like this and then not being able to stand the heat and take it to the felt post-flop.

you might aswell say why are you calling preflop if you're not happy stacking off on a low flop, just fold everything pre if we dont want to stack off anytime we dont get overcarded?

eh what are we putting him on thats beating us?

On March 15 2010 12:14 Oskar_123 wrote: Show nested quote + On March 15 2010 00:09 phexac wrote:   On March 13 2010 02:51 DustySwedeDude wrote: I'd either shove or fold on turn a lot I think, but that's debatable. Not a fan of call turn fold river, who the hell bluffs half pot anyway? I'd fold turn and if my read is good I pitch it on the flop some % too. Probably not vs this guy though. I don't get what read I can have on anyone that would make me 3B KK pre and fold on this flop. Or this turn. Or this river. If you don't think you can't ever get paid off by worse in 3B pot when you have KK versus this villain, then don't 3B pre. I mean seriously, why are we 3betting pre-flop if we aren't super happy to get it in on lowcard boards. If you need a bit of peace for the soul, 3B a bit more pre to cut down on set mining odds if that is what you are worried about. I really don't get playing KK like this and then not being able to stand the heat and take it to the felt post-flop. you might aswell say why are you calling preflop if you're not happy stacking off on a low flop, just fold everything pre if we dont want to stack off anytime we dont get overcarded?

No what I am saying is if after we 3B KK pre, if we only expect him to give us action with AA or better, how are we planning to make money? People advocating a fold here seem to lack consistency of thinking.

On March 15 2010 13:29 phexac wrote: Show nested quote + On March 15 2010 12:14 Oskar_123 wrote:   On March 15 2010 00:09 phexac wrote:   On March 13 2010 02:51 DustySwedeDude wrote: I'd either shove or fold on turn a lot I think, but that's debatable. Not a fan of call turn fold river, who the hell bluffs half pot anyway? I'd fold turn and if my read is good I pitch it on the flop some % too. Probably not vs this guy though. I don't get what read I can have on anyone that would make me 3B KK pre and fold on this flop. Or this turn. Or this river. If you don't think you can't ever get paid off by worse in 3B pot when you have KK versus this villain, then don't 3B pre. I mean seriously, why are we 3betting pre-flop if we aren't super happy to get it in on lowcard boards. If you need a bit of peace for the soul, 3B a bit more pre to cut down on set mining odds if that is what you are worried about. I really don't get playing KK like this and then not being able to stand the heat and take it to the felt post-flop. you might aswell say why are you calling preflop if you're not happy stacking off on a low flop, just fold everything pre if we dont want to stack off anytime we dont get overcarded? No what I am saying is if after we 3B KK pre, if we only expect him to give us action with AA or better, how are we planning to make money? People advocating a fold here seem to lack consistency of thinking.

We can expect to get action from stuff that we beat, but not nescessarly through a checkraise. No inconsistency there. Would be the same if we said, oh we have TPTK vs a passive fish and gonna bet/bet/shove but fold if he raises the turn. Same kind of thinking. The line in which we get money in the pot matters.

On March 15 2010 16:05 ytricky wrote: Show nested quote + On March 15 2010 13:29 phexac wrote:   On March 15 2010 12:14 Oskar_123 wrote:   On March 15 2010 00:09 phexac wrote:   On March 13 2010 02:51 DustySwedeDude wrote: I'd either shove or fold on turn a lot I think, but that's debatable. Not a fan of call turn fold river, who the hell bluffs half pot anyway? I'd fold turn and if my read is good I pitch it on the flop some % too. Probably not vs this guy though. I don't get what read I can have on anyone that would make me 3B KK pre and fold on this flop. Or this turn. Or this river. If you don't think you can't ever get paid off by worse in 3B pot when you have KK versus this villain, then don't 3B pre. I mean seriously, why are we 3betting pre-flop if we aren't super happy to get it in on lowcard boards. If you need a bit of peace for the soul, 3B a bit more pre to cut down on set mining odds if that is what you are worried about. I really don't get playing KK like this and then not being able to stand the heat and take it to the felt post-flop. you might aswell say why are you calling preflop if you're not happy stacking off on a low flop, just fold everything pre if we dont want to stack off anytime we dont get overcarded? No what I am saying is if after we 3B KK pre, if we only expect him to give us action with AA or better, how are we planning to make money? People advocating a fold here seem to lack consistency of thinking. We can expect to get action from stuff that we beat, but not nescessarly through a checkraise. No inconsistency there. Would be the same if we said, oh we have TPTK vs a passive fish and gonna bet/bet/shove but fold if he raises the turn. Same kind of thinking. The line in which we get money in the pot matters.

Getting check-raised holding TPTK in a raised pot is a radically different situation from getting check-raised with KK as overpair in 3B pot. Have you guys ever played poker before?

LOL KK is a good hand imo

On the flop you are sa/wb against this type of player. Unless you have done something with your play to make his range wider here than usual?

Just because the one time he calls your 3 bet he c/r doesn't mean he is bluffing, especially this type of player.

And snap fold the turn as played, a bare ace of diamonds is going to make a big committing bet, not half pot. His turn hand looks more like he had a fd on flop that got there.

f all that
u have KK
call

On March 15 2010 20:33 phexac wrote: Show nested quote + On March 15 2010 16:05 ytricky wrote:   On March 15 2010 13:29 phexac wrote:   On March 15 2010 12:14 Oskar_123 wrote:   On March 15 2010 00:09 phexac wrote:   On March 13 2010 02:51 DustySwedeDude wrote: I'd either shove or fold on turn a lot I think, but that's debatable. Not a fan of call turn fold river, who the hell bluffs half pot anyway? I'd fold turn and if my read is good I pitch it on the flop some % too. Probably not vs this guy though. I don't get what read I can have on anyone that would make me 3B KK pre and fold on this flop. Or this turn. Or this river. If you don't think you can't ever get paid off by worse in 3B pot when you have KK versus this villain, then don't 3B pre. I mean seriously, why are we 3betting pre-flop if we aren't super happy to get it in on lowcard boards. If you need a bit of peace for the soul, 3B a bit more pre to cut down on set mining odds if that is what you are worried about. I really don't get playing KK like this and then not being able to stand the heat and take it to the felt post-flop. you might aswell say why are you calling preflop if you're not happy stacking off on a low flop, just fold everything pre if we dont want to stack off anytime we dont get overcarded? No what I am saying is if after we 3B KK pre, if we only expect him to give us action with AA or better, how are we planning to make money? People advocating a fold here seem to lack consistency of thinking. We can expect to get action from stuff that we beat, but not nescessarly through a checkraise. No inconsistency there. Would be the same if we said, oh we have TPTK vs a passive fish and gonna bet/bet/shove but fold if he raises the turn. Same kind of thinking. The line in which we get money in the pot matters. Getting check-raised holding TPTK in a raised pot is a radically different situation from getting check-raised with KK as overpair in 3B pot. Have you guys ever played poker before?

Yes i have played poker before even if you might not think it possible. But you seem to forget we are 200bb deep. Getting check/raised in a 3bet pot 100bb deep and 200bb deep are radically different. Have you ever played poker before?

On March 16 2010 12:31 ytricky wrote: Show nested quote + On March 15 2010 20:33 phexac wrote:   On March 15 2010 16:05 ytricky wrote:   On March 15 2010 13:29 phexac wrote:   On March 15 2010 12:14 Oskar_123 wrote:   On March 15 2010 00:09 phexac wrote:   On March 13 2010 02:51 DustySwedeDude wrote: I'd either shove or fold on turn a lot I think, but that's debatable. Not a fan of call turn fold river, who the hell bluffs half pot anyway? I'd fold turn and if my read is good I pitch it on the flop some % too. Probably not vs this guy though. I don't get what read I can have on anyone that would make me 3B KK pre and fold on this flop. Or this turn. Or this river. If you don't think you can't ever get paid off by worse in 3B pot when you have KK versus this villain, then don't 3B pre. I mean seriously, why are we 3betting pre-flop if we aren't super happy to get it in on lowcard boards. If you need a bit of peace for the soul, 3B a bit more pre to cut down on set mining odds if that is what you are worried about. I really don't get playing KK like this and then not being able to stand the heat and take it to the felt post-flop. you might aswell say why are you calling preflop if you're not happy stacking off on a low flop, just fold everything pre if we dont want to stack off anytime we dont get overcarded? No what I am saying is if after we 3B KK pre, if we only expect him to give us action with AA or better, how are we planning to make money? People advocating a fold here seem to lack consistency of thinking. We can expect to get action from stuff that we beat, but not nescessarly through a checkraise. No inconsistency there. Would be the same if we said, oh we have TPTK vs a passive fish and gonna bet/bet/shove but fold if he raises the turn. Same kind of thinking. The line in which we get money in the pot matters. Getting check-raised holding TPTK in a raised pot is a radically different situation from getting check-raised with KK as overpair in 3B pot. Have you guys ever played poker before? Yes i have played poker before even if you might not think it possible. But you seem to forget we are 200bb deep. Getting check/raised in a 3bet pot 100bb deep and 200bb deep are radically different. Have you ever played poker before?

So basically you are willing to 3B and get it in 200BB deep as long as your opponents isn't. Sounds like a solid money-making plan to me.

Would villain play Jacks or Queens like this? Considering betsize UTG pre flop, followed by a call. Perhaps more likely to open with 55-99+ with x4 utg and call a 3bet pre?