When people check in the dark...

I was playing a pretty loose low stakes live game yesterday (1-2 shekels, which is about 0.25-0.5$) when this happened:

EP raise, 3 callers. flop is something like Qs-Xc-Xc.
Original raiser Cbets, MP folds, CO and the guy on the button, both competent players, call. pot is like 100 shekels
turn is a third club (10c I think)- original raiser checks, CO checks, button bets 60, looked pretty strong to me. 1st guy folds, CO check-raises to 120.
button, looking slightly confused, but still pretty confident, calls (looked to me like he was pondering a reraise).
at this point CO checks dark, and the river comes a blank.
button looks confused.. "why would u do that?!".
disgusted he checks behind, showing an 8 high flush on a non paired board (!), CO shows a J high flush and takes the pot.

I thought the guy on the button just had a good read at first, but when I asked him why did he check behind (as there are still plenty of hands he can beat), he just said that the dark check looked suspicious.
I argued that when people check dark on draw heavey boards, they usually are with some sort of a made hand, and are afraid of a 4th club, or a made flush or something- then the CO (who got totally owned this hand) says, "yea, that's what I wanted him to think"...
so I guess the guy on the button cought on that, as he said to me later he didn't have any special physical read on the CO that hand.

I fealt sick at being at this table, as I would have taken the bate probably.

anyway, this long story just got me to ask myself: what do checks in the dark usually mean in your opinion?
like, when a standard, level 2 thinking player, checks in the dark... what do u put him on? (weak, marginal, drawy, or nuts?)

hope the post is clear enough...

Sorry pal but I wont know until they implement the button into online games. That would be fun

[ ]both competent players

when someone hits the best cooler in poker(flush over flush) and wins the absolute minimum, he's not competent, he's a huge retard

when someone checks in the dark i insta label him as a fish

On February 01 2010 09:09 collegesucks wrote: when someone checks in the dark i insta label him as a fish

This ( Dunno if you guys noticed but Hellmuth does this a lot, always when hes always weak PF, Negreanu too)

On February 01 2010 08:24 player999 wrote: when someone hits the best cooler in poker(flush over flush) and wins the absolute minimum, he's not competent, he's a huge retard

Def not this...You're basically saying you'll never fold a flush here

On February 01 2010 09:20 Eazygun wrote: Show nested quote + On February 01 2010 09:09 collegesucks wrote: when someone checks in the dark i insta label him as a fish This ( Dunno if you guys noticed but Hellmuth does this a lot, always when hes always weak PF]

this isn't always true, I've seen him do it with KK

well, against this particular opponent you can check in the dark with a marginal showdown hand u dont wanna get bluffed off of.

oh that wasnt the question but whatever thats the only thought on the subject ive got=d

On February 01 2010 09:20 Eazygun wrote: Show nested quote + On February 01 2010 09:09 collegesucks wrote: when someone checks in the dark i insta label him as a fish This ( Dunno if you guys noticed but Hellmuth does this a lot, always when hes always weak PF, Negreanu too)

HAHAHA ok if PHIL HELLMUTH does it it must be a great play coz phil is the world's best

Show nested quote + On February 01 2010 08:24 player999 wrote: when someone hits the best cooler in poker(flush over flush) and wins the absolute minimum, he's not competent, he's a huge retard Def not this...You're basically saying you'll never fold a flush here

No I didnt say that, I said he is a retard for not betting and if you can't see why quit poker, not in the mood to explain

On February 01 2010 10:04 player999 wrote: Show nested quote + On February 01 2010 09:20 Eazygun wrote:   On February 01 2010 09:09 collegesucks wrote: when someone checks in the dark i insta label him as a fish This ( Dunno if you guys noticed but Hellmuth does this a lot, always when hes always weak PF, Negreanu too) HAHAHA ok if PHIL HELLMUTH does it it must be a great play coz phil is the world's best [QUOTE:[/B]

work on your reading comprehension bro, 'cos right now you look like a cock.

There are reasons to donk instead of check-raise/check-fold/check-call. If someone announces dark check I figure that they dont know how to play that well.

check raising the turn is gonna make pretty much every hand that's not a flush check back the river, so leading river is the best choice not checking even if its "dark"

ffs, can anyone who plays live answer this question seriously?
obv checking in this spot is sick, but this guy was trying to "sell" a tell that he is weak/marginal so he could either:
1. check-raise and get called by something weaker. (win extra bet)
2. induce a bet by a weaker holding that might have checked behind or folded to a bet otherwise. (win extra bet)
3. check-call a stronger holding and not be put in a gay spot if he bets and gets raised...

obviously this looks donkish betting-paterns by both.
but there was an added metagame factor, that live poker has- TELLS.
I guess all of you smart asses would have bet-fold/bet-call with the 8 high flush? if you bet call, than this guy tricked u into 1 more bet.

Ill be more specific- in this spot, what would u put the dark-checker on?

The answer is that it depends. You'd have to know something about the player to assume anything about what his checking-in-the-dark means. What we can assume here is that he's not a very good player based on the way he played the hand. That's about it.

player999
If you didnt noticed, you just agreed with me..
reading comprehension +1

they're all doing the live equivelant of pushing random buttons and are terrible.

"yea, that's what I wanted him to think" translates to 'wow i have no idea wtf i was doing, better act like i planned this all along!'

i play live a lot for fun in casinos and home games and never have seen anyone check in the dark.

I don't see a lot of dark checking in home games, but it's not particularly uncommon in casinos.