wcoop-13 $215+R NLHE

who's in? gl all

Im playing. Gotta love rebuys, lets win!

glglglgl

saki what's your id on stars?

On September 11 2008 11:44 taqtiX wrote: saki what's your id on stars?

if im nnot wrong, its lp_sakisaki

On September 11 2008 11:45 2Vi3T_B0Y4 wrote: Show nested quote + On September 11 2008 11:44 taqtiX wrote: saki what's your id on stars? if im nnot wrong, its lp_sakisaki

indeed, tks

my table is boring

as is mine

I have a retard spewing and double rebuying like a true champ. shipship

On September 11 2008 12:07 TwistedEcho wrote: my table is boring

lol thorladen is at my friends tbl.. shoving any2 from EP

LOl bigred000 u are seirously mentally challenged in this game called tournement poker.

On September 11 2008 12:14 SakiSaki wrote: I have a retard spewing and double rebuying like a true champ. shipship

bigred000 right?

are you serious? bigred is the nuts


19,4k at first break

On September 11 2008 12:34 SakiSaki wrote: are you serious? bigred is the nuts 19,4k at first break

hes doing exactly wat the donk on ur table is doing just shoving n double rebuying

bigred > pokemyface and wobbly

$10,625

Submitted by : BigRed0000

PokerStars Game #20325793317: Tournament #200800013, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level II (15/30) - 2008/09/11 15:29:56 ET
Table '200800013 211' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: wrckngbll911 (3720 in chips)
Seat 2: korosh10 (2840 in chips)
Seat 3: Pokemyface85 (1255 in chips)
Seat 4: tophil (1215 in chips)
Seat 5: BigRed0000 (4010 in chips)
Seat 6: hans120 (2639 in chips)
Seat 7: MarMoss (7765 in chips)
Seat 8: TryTechy (1865 in chips)
Seat 9: donkeyturist (4871 in chips)
hans120: posts small blind 15
MarMoss: posts big blind 30

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to BigRed0000
TryTechy: raises 80 to 110
donkeyturist: folds
wrckngbll911: calls 110
korosh10: calls 110
Pokemyface85: folds
tophil: folds
BigRed0000 : raises 3900 to 4010 and is all-in
hans120: folds
MarMoss: folds
tophil is disconnected
TryTechy: calls 1755 and is all-in
wrckngbll911: calls 3610 and is all-in
korosh10: folds
Uncalled bet (290) returned to BigRed0000

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $9,460.00)

   

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $9,460.00)

   

River (Pot : $9,460.00)

   

Showdown
wrckngbll911: shows (two pair, Queens and Sixes)
BigRed0000 : shows (a full house, Fives full of Sixes)
BigRed0000 collected 3710 from side pot
TryTechy: shows (two pair, Aces and Sixes)
BigRed0000 collected 5750 from main pot
TryTechy is disconnected
TryTechy is connected
wrckngbll911 re-buys and receives 2000 chips for $200.00

Summary
Total pot 9460 Main pot 5750. Side pot 3710. | Rake 0
Board  
Seat 1: wrckngbll911 showed and lost with two pair, Queens and Sixes
Seat 2: korosh10 folded before Flop
Seat 3: Pokemyface85 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: tophil folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: BigRed0000 (button) showed and won (9460) with a full house, Fives full of Sixes
Seat 6: hans120 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: MarMoss (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: TryTechy showed and lost with two pair, Aces and Sixes
Seat 9: donkeyturist folded before Flop (didn't bet)

On September 11 2008 12:38 TwistedEcho wrote: bigred > pokemyface and wobbly

I am a huge donk I confess. Everyoen should want to play at my tables I suck guys.

wobbly- its the last hand of a rebuy period. Its called gambling to get a big stack.

Are you even at the table? Why do you care?

On September 11 2008 12:40 SakiSaki wrote: Show nested quote + On September 11 2008 12:38 TwistedEcho wrote: bigred > pokemyface and wobbly

LOL @ u

Oh and pokemyface,

You are a perfect example of dead money in this tournament, so no shit talking plz

i had pocket 5's.... how else am i supposed to play that?

On September 11 2008 12:40 TwistedEcho wrote: wobbly- its the last hand of a rebuy period. Its called gambling to get a big stack. Are you even at the table? Why do you care?

i dunno i just lolllly at donks.

we aint here to gamble his shove is super exploitable BAD.

On September 11 2008 12:42 TwistedEcho wrote: Oh and pokemyface, You are a perfect example of dead money in this tournament, so no shit talking plz

lol cause i havent played as many donkaments as u?

twisted echo and bigreg AND SAKISAKI must all be leveling.

u guys are retarded if u think shove with 55 is goodl.

No, because you seem to suck at rebuy tournaments and then talk shit to bigred who is clearly 2340982938x better than you, purely based on the fact you didn't rebuy. I don't know anything about your play but just off that can work out you aren't v good.

u dont play alot of rebuys do you?

wtf wobbly

are you retarded?

wobbly - its fine.

If this makes me retarded, i'm happy to crossbook tournament action with you forever

twisted u know rebuying isnt nec always good. its only good if u have a retard shover like bigred000 shoving 2 buyins.

please tell me this is a HGUE level

On September 11 2008 12:32 wobbly_au wrote: LOl bigred000 u are seirously mentally challenged in this game called tournement poker.

COOL youre playing a bunch of wcoops right? wanna bet 10k or any amt u want on the side that bigred will do better than you in all the tournaments both you and he plays between now and the end of wcoop? we can base it on TLB points i guess unless you can think of a better way. i know its high variance but if you think he is retarded you should have an edge right? dont be a pussy and put your money where your mouth is, lets bet on this seriously. get back to me plz

wobbly srsly are you leveling us?

explain to me how this is good. their callign range is CRUSHING 55.

super reverse implied and mega inrease your variance

stick to fullring skill games wobbly

wobbly - the only time rebuying at the start would be bad, is if you are the worse player at the table thus shortstacking is much more +EV.

This might be the case for pokemyface, in which case he shouldn't play

You don't have to gamble it up, you should at least rebuy at the start and play however you want. If i had 55 in patricks spot on that last hand, i would also shove as would many good tournament players to gamboool. Having a big stack deep postrebuy period vs these idiot donks in a nice structured tournament like wcoop >>> the fact its a -ev shove.

this thread is awesome.

On September 11 2008 12:49 wobbly_au wrote: explain to me how this is good. their callign range is CRUSHING 55. super reverse implied and mega inrease your variance

its not good he sucks ok, bet against him already you coward

Holy bagles tribe green star is onto us!

someone explain this shit to me. this is a huge level

pokemyface and wobbly you are both awful at tournaments please stop trying to pretend you know what you are doing and just be quiet

wobbly you seriously have to be incredibly ignorant when it comes to tournaments to not understand this

On September 11 2008 12:50 TwistedEcho wrote: wobbly - the only time rebuying at the start would be bad, is if you are the worse player at the table thus shortstacking is much more +EV. This might be the case for pokemyface, in which case he shouldn't play You don't have to gamble it up, you should at least rebuy at the start and play however you want. If i had 55 in patricks spot on that last hand, i would also shove as would many good tournament players to gamboool. Having a big stack deep postrebuy period vs these idiot donks in a nice structured tournament like wcoop >>> the fact its a -ev shove.

lol you berate me as a bad player just because i havent gone nuts and rebought?

On September 11 2008 12:54 Mig wrote: wobbly you seriously have to be incredibly ignorant when it comes to tournaments to not understand this

so please explain..

On September 11 2008 12:56 Pokemyface wrote: Show nested quote + On September 11 2008 12:50 TwistedEcho wrote: wobbly - the only time rebuying at the start would be bad, is if you are the worse player at the table thus shortstacking is much more +EV. This might be the case for pokemyface, in which case he shouldn't play You don't have to gamble it up, you should at least rebuy at the start and play however you want. If i had 55 in patricks spot on that last hand, i would also shove as would many good tournament players to gamboool. Having a big stack deep postrebuy period vs these idiot donks in a nice structured tournament like wcoop >>> the fact its a -ev shove. lol you berate me as a bad player just because i havent gone nuts and rebought?

i'll just stay out of this but i'm just gonna say "yes"

On September 11 2008 12:37 Pokemyface wrote: Show nested quote + On September 11 2008 12:34 SakiSaki wrote: are you serious? bigred is the nuts 19,4k at first break hes doing exactly wat the donk on ur table is doing just shoving n double rebuying

Thats not what he was doing, he wa just making dumb postflop drawing dead spewaments

pokemyface,

Based purely off you not rebuying at the start and describing it as 'nuts', you are clearly awful at tournaments yes

why cant u just set mine 5s and win? the non variance way

On September 11 2008 12:56 wobbly_au wrote: Show nested quote + On September 11 2008 12:54 Mig wrote: wobbly you seriously have to be incredibly ignorant when it comes to tournaments to not understand this so please explain..

it has been explained

wtfs wrong with you

wtf

this is unreal

this isnt just ignorance

its tilting me

Wobbly conversation in spoiler:

+ Show Spoiler +

On September 11 2008 12:57 TwistedEcho wrote: pokemyface, Based purely off you not rebuying at the start and describing it as 'nuts', you are clearly awful at tournaments yes

hmmm ok i may be a bit clueless in rebuy donkaments but stating that i am awful at all tournaments in general is quite an overstatement

chip ev is crap and MASSSIve variance.

someone clue me in?

On September 11 2008 13:01 FrinkX wrote: wtf this is unreal this isnt just ignorance its tilting me

what gamble gamble for 200bb is good?

its not even a flip ur fucking crushed when they call

ok so this hand is from the rebuy period

Dealt to TwistedEcho [Ts 3d]
AARiverman72: raises 60 to 80
TwistedEcho: folds
mjollnir52: folds
SHIP_IT.NET: folds
icatchyou: calls 80
Leonìda: folds
pibe1311: folds
EdgarWho?: folds
*** FLOP *** [9d 2c 4c]
AARiverman72: bets 140
icatchyou: calls 140
*** TURN *** [9d 2c 4c]
AARiverman72: bets 310
icatchyou: calls 310
*** RIVER *** [9d 2c 4c Qd]
AARiverman72: bets 710
icatchyou: calls 710
*** SHOW DOWN ***
AARiverman72: shows [Qh Qc] (three of a kind, Queens)
icatchyou: mucks hand
AARiverman72 collected 2510 from pot
Seat 7: icatchyou mucked [Ks Kh]


so how does he go so nuts with a flushdraw!!
Dealt to TwistedEcho [5s 6s]
Leonìda: folds
pibe1311: folds
EdgarWho?: folds
Boateng: folds
AARiverman72: folds
TwistedEcho: raises 100 to 150
mjollnir52: folds
SHIP_IT.NET: folds
icatchyou: calls 100
*** FLOP *** [3h 9s 7s]
icatchyou: checks
TwistedEcho: bets 275
icatchyou: raises 625 to 900
TwistedEcho: raises 1475 to 2375
icatchyou: raises 3875 to 6250 and is all-in
TwistedEcho: calls 3875
*** TURN *** [3h 9s 7s]
*** RIVER *** [3h 9s 7s 9c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
icatchyou: shows [4s As] (two pair, Aces and Nines)
TwistedEcho: shows [5s 6s] (a pair of Nines)
icatchyou collected 12825 from pot

basically out

LOL AT THE AUSTRALIAN FULL RING NIT SQUAD

jesus I now know why these guys made money from poker, full ring must be the easiest shit in the whole wide world

their lack of understanding poker baffles me.

ok

1.shoving a lot is good for image so the fish who think you are retarded will stack off ultra light after you double them up early on and are out of the rebuy period and you get your chips back anyway
2. we want to have as many if not more chips than everyone at the table so we never lose maximum value
3. 55 is a great hand to shove with because it just is for the situation i can't even begin to explain it basically the rebuy period is just a time to try to get loads of chips by taking gambles.

why cant we all be friends guys?!

ok I will spell it out tournaments are not cash games you have a finite opportunity to make money. In a cash game you can rebuy anytime you bust you can play for as long as you want so obviously not considering image any -ev play is probably bad. Tournaments once you bust you're done so its very different.

In a rebuy tournament if you are a winning player against the field its generally correct to gamble and take -ev plays during the rebuy period. Because although you are giving up ev early on you will on average have more chips than if you didnt gamble so with these extra chips you will on average be able to play longer in the tournament, see more hands and if you are a winning your player these additional hands will more than make up the ev you lost gambling early. Not only that but if you are a good player your edge being deep will be greater so you are increasing your ev of every hand you play as well along with if you have a big stack its much easier to abuse and run over a table. Also if you lose some allins thats fine because now your table is deeper stacked and once again if you are the better player your ev will now be increased for every hand you play because you get to play deep stacked against poor players. And if all that wasnt enough its great for your image because dumb players will see you gambling in the rebuy period will assume you are terrible and play awful against you post rebuy.

In tournaments very little of your total ev is won or lost in the early levels when you make a mistake for 5k chips it costs you a couple hundred $ in ev when you make a mistake for 500,000$ chips you lose thousands and obviously the reverse is true for when you make good plays. The top players will gamble early on take -ev decisions when it doesnt really matter so they can put themselves into position to really make money.

show me some actual math justification


wtf is this "lets just gamgol shit" "Get big stack" i dont see u guys jaming 55 200bb deep in cash games and saying lets GAMBOL stack the fish sitting 10000bb deep for more.

On September 11 2008 13:07 Twisted wrote: jesus I now know why these guys made money from poker, full ring must be the easiest shit in the whole wide world their lack of understanding poker baffles me.

yeh man no shit...u guys must be playing 6max cause poker is about measuring e-penis sizes and not making money right?

pokemyface,

If you want to make money, ket has already offered to bet 10k bigred vs you/wobbly since bigred is 'so bad'

If you want more action i'll take the same bet also

"if you are a winning your player these additional hands will more than make up the ev you lost gambling earlier"

is there some math behind in this statement?

The biggest argument wobbly is that you are way overestimating how much the early levels matter what you do early really doesnt matter that much at all in how much you will win lifetime in tournaments all the money is made in the late stages you want to put yourself into a position to reach the late stages as often as possible. All the most profitable tourney players having been playing this way for the last couple years in rebuy tournaments and the top mtt players make a large % of their income from these rebuy tournaments.

On September 11 2008 13:09 Mig wrote: In tournaments very little of your total ev is won or lost in the early levels when you make a mistake for 5k chips it costs you a couple hundred $ in ev when you make a mistake for 500,000$ chips you lose thousands and obviously the reverse is true for when you make good plays. The top players will gamble early on take -ev decisions when it doesnt really matter so they can put themselves into position to really make money.

essenntially that is the debate.
whether giving up ev and taking a -ev is compensated by the ev u gain later. unless there is some large database of this strategy being good, i dont see how getting it in with dominated hand like 55 is good on a nitty table.

<3 mig

I can't believe mig was nice enough to spell it out lol.

And no I dont have math on it you can try to work some out if you want but this is how tournament players make their living. There are 2 schools of thought and some tourney regs arent as comfortable gambling as much early in some tourneys such as like the 100r where the field is smaller but the best tourney players all do still gamble a good amount in the 100r and for the last few years these are the guys who have been making the most money. In large field tourneys like this seriously all mtt pros gamble unless they are too poor to do it. If you think virtually every tourney pro is doing it wrong then ok.

wobbly seriously wtf. One of the best donkament players in the world just gave you a fucking essay reply of why bigreds play is good and you keep being a stubborn dumbass wtf is wrong with you?

On September 11 2008 13:17 wobbly_au wrote: Show nested quote + On September 11 2008 13:09 Mig wrote: In tournaments very little of your total ev is won or lost in the early levels when you make a mistake for 5k chips it costs you a couple hundred $ in ev when you make a mistake for 500,000$ chips you lose thousands and obviously the reverse is true for when you make good plays. The top players will gamble early on take -ev decisions when it doesnt really matter so they can put themselves into position to really make money. essenntially that is the debate. whether giving up ev and taking a -ev is compensated by the ev u gain later. unless there is some large database of this strategy being good, i dont see how getting it in with dominated hand like 55 is good on a nitty table.

once again you're totally missing the point =[

On September 11 2008 13:15 Mig wrote: The biggest argument wobbly is that you are way overestimating how much the early levels matter what you do early really doesnt matter that much at all in how much you will win lifetime in tournaments all the money is made in the late stages you want to put yourself into a position to reach the late stages as often as possible. All the most profitable tourney players having been playing this way for the last couple years in rebuy tournaments and the top mtt players make a large % of their income from these rebuy tournaments.

i mean i can see this strat being good if slightly tigher like 88+ AQ+ or somethin.. but 55 is seriously going to make ur variance insanely huge. like getting it in with like 10% of ur hands is sooo much ev, even though its just early on

no not explainations

MATH

not letters

NUMBERS

wobbly,

Your friend not taking the rebuy at the start is mucccch worse than shoving 55

whatev's if im wrong, so be it, <3 mig for the detailed reasoning though

wow

On September 11 2008 13:19 Mig wrote: And no I dont have math on it you can try to work some out if you want but this is how tournament players make their living. There are 2 schools of thought and some tourney regs arent as comfortable gambling as much early in some tourneys such as like the 100r where the field is smaller but the best tourney players all do still gamble a good amount in the 100r and for the last few years these are the guys who have been making the most money. In large field tourneys like this seriously all mtt pros gamble unless they are too poor to do it. If you think virtually every tourney pro is doing it wrong then ok.

hmmm i see.

and what are the general ranges?? or depends on table.

I can see this being quite good if u got a table of monkeys "imitating" this and gooing all in K2 A2 KJ type of shit, but if ur on a tight table u still gambol it up?

Was there some sort of provocation?

Because if there wasn't, regardless of who is right, why would you publicly berate a well respected poster who has contributed a lot to this community?

I dont know why the variance matters at all? We are just working with whats going to make you the most money in the long run iam not concerned with variance here. Theres going to be a break even point thats different for everyone on how much they can gamble before it starts to lose its value going to depend on calling ranges, field size, their edge on the field, etc but in a large field tourney like this iam very confident if you are a good player that you can gamble a sick amount and make more money than you would have if you didnt. I mean this is a method that all the best players use and have made the most money with if you dont want to gamble and you want to make less money then go ahead.

I think trying to work out the math for it will be useless because there are so many different variables you arent going to be able to come up with the correct answer.

mig...
mig.

went from 400 chips to 6150

back in thisssssssss

ggplz ur getting out of line

echo plz stay on topic

correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the shoving range depend more on the size/quality of the field rather than the specific table that you're sitting on?

I remember way back in the day playing a 3+R or 11+R and seeing twistedecho at my table literally shove any2 and thinking wtf? But I think it makes sense to shove any2 for him in that spot because of how incredibly soft the field is in those tournaments.

migs word on tourneys is like the word of god, me being aethiest i dont believe in blind faith. show me some proof god..

?

you can prove god doesn't exist?

it's possible to prove god does exist?

?

will you crossbook?

yes?

no?

maybe so?

convo between me and roomy

Filthy says:
yea thats what i said
Filthy says:
just hand wavey proof
ONETIME! says:
exact
Filthy says:
thingn is
Filthy says:
its pretty double standard
Filthy says:
like theres no real difference
Filthy says:
between a rebuy tourn
Filthy says:
and just play lots of non rebuy tourn
Filthy says:
like just view rebuying as playing the next week
Filthy says:
if its +ev to be shoving 55 there in rebuy
Filthy says:
it should be +ev to do it in non rebuy
Filthy says:
nothing changes
ONETIME! says:
that is
ONETIME! says:
good argue
Filthy says:
just theres an addon available
Filthy says:
which is pretty irrelevant to this scenario

On September 11 2008 13:35 TenBagger wrote: correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the shoving range depend more on the size/quality of the field rather than the specific table that you're sitting on? I remember way back in the day playing a 3+R or 11+R and seeing twistedecho at my table literally shove any2 and thinking wtf? But I think it makes sense to shove any2 for him in that spot because of how incredibly soft the field is in those tournaments.

yeah idk exactly how light to gamble in these 215r, it depends on tables. I'm clearly trying to flip whenever i can and play draws super fast etc.

was talking w/ mig about this

[21:22] mig: seriously in a 2200 person tourney
[21:23] mig: it maybe correct to just shove every hand
[21:23] mig: until you reach a certain stack
[21:23] mig: ala 10r
[21:23] twistedecho: probably not since people are so tight
[21:23] twistedecho: and their calling range is much tighter
[21:23] mig:yea maybe not but the more I play the more I devalue
[21:23] migcom123: the start of tourneys
[21:23] mig: in this field
[21:23] mig: your edge is going to be unreal deep

I mean basically the point of rebuy period is to build a stack, take some -ev spots in order to get deeper with the donks. Its hard to mathematically 'prove' anything, but if you look at who wins the most big rebuys online and how they play, you'll def see correlation between playing like a maniac and gambling and winning rebuy tournaments. You'd have to assume if gambling in the rebuy period was bad, the big winning players who do it wouldn't be such big winners (even w/ high tournament variance, we are talking 3-4yr samples here)

thats the dumbest logic I have ever heard wtf

You truly are retarded wobbly.

Isn't it enough that mig says that every good tourney player has been playing like this for 3 years and they've made sick profit in rebuy tournaments is enough proof? =[

Filthy says:
its pretty double standard
Filthy says:
like theres no real difference
Filthy says:
between a rebuy tourn
Filthy says:
and just play lots of non rebuy tourn
Filthy says:
like just view rebuying as playing the next week
Filthy says:
if its +ev to be shoving 55 there in rebuy
Filthy says:
it should be +ev to do it in non rebuy

This isn't true, when you shove 55 in a none rebuy and bust, you are out the tournament. In a rebuy, you'll either get a big stack and the opponents will usually rebuy and you'll be at the same table deeper with idiots and some nice image to get paid off on.

Also there isn't an infinite number of tournaments to play, so you can't shove there in some random freezeout and bust and play another. Also when you bust in the rebuy period the chips don't vanish, they remain in play at your table where you get a chance to win them back, this doesn't happen when you bust a freezeout etc

I mean cmon, you must be able to see the diff between rebuys and freezeouts

On September 11 2008 13:42 wobbly_au wrote: convo between me and roomy Filthy says: yea thats what i said Filthy says: just hand wavey proof ONETIME! says: exact Filthy says: thingn is Filthy says: its pretty double standard Filthy says: like theres no real difference Filthy says: between a rebuy tourn Filthy says: and just play lots of non rebuy tourn Filthy says: like just view rebuying as playing the next week Filthy says: if its +ev to be shoving 55 there in rebuy Filthy says: it should be +ev to do it in non rebuy Filthy says: nothing changes ONETIME! says: that is ONETIME! says: good argue Filthy says: just theres an addon available Filthy says: which is pretty irrelevant to this scenario

how do u ppl make $$ @ poker? i am baffled.

And also, we are agreeing in a part with you, that the 55 shove in a vacuum is -ev, so clearly in a freezeout it would be bad. However because its a rebuy, it becomes fine.

u semi missed the point.
my view is that i see rebuy tours as non rebuy tourns where people jam random shit and that makes it super juicy and not tough to play

On September 11 2008 13:32 FrinkX wrote: ggplz ur getting out of line

rofl vn

Its very differnet for the many reasons I stated before sigh. Image the fact that your opponents will have more chips and by far the biggest is that as I said before you have a finite amount you can play.

On September 11 2008 13:37 wobbly_au wrote: migs word on tourneys is like the word of god, me being aethiest i dont believe in blind faith. show me some proof god..

He gave you a very well written, thorough explenation (one that you btw definitely didnt deserve) and you still yell for proof.

I wanted to stay otu of this but LOL at that argument (the aim chat)..

why dont u play and take all thier money they wobbly?

how can proof be given what the fuck

migs explanation was perfect and its OBVIOUS numerical proof cannot be given

you're dumb

On September 11 2008 13:51 Mig wrote: Its very differnet for the many reasons I stated before sigh. Image the fact that your opponents will have more chips and by far the biggest is that as I said before you have a finite amount you can play. If there was an unlimited supply of tournaments just running non stop then I would play them like a rebuy tourney. But you cant just do that in like the 150 theres only 1 a night.

ty for explanation~~ i guess its just 2 schools of thought glll

On September 11 2008 13:49 iakim322 wrote: Show nested quote + On September 11 2008 13:42 wobbly_au wrote: convo between me and roomy Filthy says: yea thats what i said Filthy says: just hand wavey proof ONETIME! says: exact Filthy says: thingn is Filthy says: its pretty double standard Filthy says: like theres no real difference Filthy says: between a rebuy tourn Filthy says: and just play lots of non rebuy tourn Filthy says: like just view rebuying as playing the next week Filthy says: if its +ev to be shoving 55 there in rebuy Filthy says: it should be +ev to do it in non rebuy Filthy says: nothing changes ONETIME! says: that is ONETIME! says: good argue Filthy says: just theres an addon available Filthy says: which is pretty irrelevant to this scenario how do u ppl make $$ @ poker? i am baffled.

it wasn't a rhetorical question. answer pls!

mig that shouldn't make a difference though should it? you should play every tournament the most +EV you can

edit - the difference in 150 tournaments a night vs 1

hahaha he still thinks he's right by calling it 2 schools of thought lol.

On September 11 2008 13:55 wobbly_au wrote: Show nested quote + On September 11 2008 13:51 Mig wrote: Its very differnet for the many reasons I stated before sigh. Image the fact that your opponents will have more chips and by far the biggest is that as I said before you have a finite amount you can play. If there was an unlimited supply of tournaments just running non stop then I would play them like a rebuy tourney. But you cant just do that in like the 150 theres only 1 a night. ty for explanation~~ i guess its just 2 schools of thought glll

its not 2 schools of thought unless you're going to special ed

Wobbly overall look I dont have math for it if you dont want to accept and you feel with virtually no tourney experience you are right then ok.

I'm glad I understood mig's explanation since I've never cashed in a rebuy and always played them (all 5 times I've tried) like a regular tournament except for doing the addon at the beginning and the break.

That's why poker is so good though - the winning strategies often make no sense on the surface. How many buyins do you guys need to safely conduct this insanity? Let's say I do like a $5 rebuy and shove every hand for the first hour, do I never stop if I keep going broke? Sounds like the explanations imply not to although maybe if the average is 8000 or so and you're double rebuying for 3000 and there's only 5 minutes left, you might want to give up?

roald your insanity in gambling should be directly influenced by the size of your br

in the 3r i think with a 5k bankroll you should shove any2 until you get 10k chips or something but if you only had say a 1k bankroll that you should play it much less gamble-like and only shoving facecards and pocketpairs and stuff like that

@ roald

he doesnt necessarily mean shoving every hand

good players who play a wide range of higher buyin tournies and can afford 5r shovefests, shoving every hand and getting unreal huge stack gives them quite the edge

but in 50r 100r 200r etc, people will selectively gamble, usually vs people who will gamble as well

and oh so many people will gamble with <10 min left in the rebuy period and they dont have a stack

sorry for being far away from the topic, whos still in?

On September 11 2008 13:56 CrownRoyal wrote: mig that shouldn't make a difference though should it? you should play every tournament the most +EV you can edit - the difference in 150 tournaments a night vs 1

No I think the difference is you lose a lot of ev by missing out on hands becuase you cant replace the tourney once you bust like when you can rebuy.

lolol

i have 12k

Also I think when you develop a large enough stack in rebuys such as 10-15k shoving so wide becomes less profitable

l;asdfkjalsdfjdaslfja;fdj

omfg wobbly, your posts on the past 5 pages just put me on life tilt

I am back to 8k after being down to 400. Sick soft table and winning flips keeping me alive

On September 11 2008 14:08 Mig wrote: Show nested quote + On September 11 2008 13:56 CrownRoyal wrote: mig that shouldn't make a difference though should it? you should play every tournament the most +EV you can edit - the difference in 150 tournaments a night vs 1 No I think the difference is you lose a lot of ev by missing out on hands becuase you cant replace the tourney once you bust like when you can rebuy.

i guess thats a valid point i didnt think about that

On September 11 2008 14:11 Pacifist wrote: Also I think when you develop a large enough stack in rebuys such as 10-15k shoving so wide becomes less profitable

this is definitely true and is why you rarely see mtt pros who will shove allin every hand the entire hour once you bad beat enough people to get a stack its generally right to stop shoving but exactly when its right to stop shoving would be different for every situation

i have 18k, very soft table

nice call, GL gl!
Submitted by : uiCk

PokerStars Game #20328893935: Tournament #200800013, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level VI (100/200) - 2008/09/11 17:30:16 ET
Table '200800013 100' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: guytou21 (24389 in chips)
Seat 2: By-TorNV (20434 in chips)
Seat 3: PiMaster (4240 in chips)
Seat 4: TwistedEcho (8500 in chips)
Seat 5: roudeboy (11280 in chips)
Seat 6: KtheKing (24015 in chips)
Seat 7: krrrm (5140 in chips)
Seat 8: Priestland (34560 in chips)
Seat 9: krazieass (32851 in chips)
Priestland: posts small blind 100
krazieass: posts big blind 200

Holecards(Odds)
guytou21: folds
By-TorNV: folds
PiMaster: folds
TwistedEcho: raises 400 to 600
roudeboy: folds
KtheKing: calls 600
krrrm: folds
Priestland: folds
krazieass: folds

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $1,500.00)

   
TwistedEcho: checks
KtheKing: checks

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $1,500.00)

   
TwistedEcho: checks
KtheKing: checks

River (Pot : $1,500.00)

   
TwistedEcho: checks
KtheKing: bets 950
TwistedEcho: calls 950

Showdown
KtheKing: shows (a pair of Nines)
TwistedEcho: shows (two pair, Nines and Deuces)
TwistedEcho collected 3400 from pot

Summary
Total pot 3400 | Rake 0
Board  
Seat 1: guytou21 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: By-TorNV folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: PiMaster folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: TwistedEcho showed and won (3400) with two pair, Nines and Deuces
Seat 5: roudeboy folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: KtheKing showed and lost with a pair of Nines
Seat 7: krrrm (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: Priestland (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 9: krazieass (big blind) folded before Flop

Dealt to TwistedEcho [9c Js]
KtheKing: raises 300 to 500
krrrm: folds
Priestland: folds
krazieass: folds
guytou21: calls 500
Bry23: calls 500
PiMaster: folds
TwistedEcho: folds
roudeboy: folds
*** FLOP *** [6h Ad 9h]
KtheKing: bets 980
guytou21: calls 980
Bry23: calls 980
*** TURN *** [6h Ad 9h]
KtheKing: checks
guytou21: bets 2200
Bry23: calls 2200
KtheKing: folds
*** RIVER *** [6h Ad 9h Qh]
guytou21: bets 3400
Bry23: raises 13695 to 17095 and is all-in
guytou21: calls 13695
*** SHOW DOWN ***
Bry23: shows [Ah 4h] (a flush, Ace high)
guytou21: shows [3c Ac] (a pair of Aces)
Bry23 collected 43330 from pot

lolz

12,5k at break

9650
mig has 7720
tj has 9085

lolllllllllllllll oh good lord

every now and then i am just so glad to have you around mig

you're such an adorable little ginger



HEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHEHE <3333333

Dealt to TwistedEcho [9s 5s]
roudeboy: calls 250
KtheKing: folds
krrrm: folds
Priestland: folds
krazieass: calls 250
guytou21: folds
Bry23: folds
PiMaster: folds
TwistedEcho: checks
*** FLOP *** [3s 9c 6s]
TwistedEcho: bets 875
roudeboy: folds
krazieass: calls 875
*** TURN *** [3s 9c 6s]
TwistedEcho: checks
krazieass: bets 1500
TwistedEcho: calls 1500
*** RIVER *** [3s 9c 6s 9d]
TwistedEcho: checks
krazieass: bets 3250
TwistedEcho: calls 3250
*** SHOW DOWN ***
krazieass: shows [7h 9h] (a full house, Nines full of Sevens)
TwistedEcho: mucks hand
krazieass collected 12350 from pot

bleh

Submitted by : BigRed0000

PokerStars Game #20329861606: Tournament #200800013, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2008/09/11 18:09:22 ET
Table '200800013 211' 9-max Seat #6 is the button
Seat 1: Willibal (21967 in chips)
Seat 2: tkap243 (35559 in chips)
Seat 3: Pokemyface85 (5430 in chips)
Seat 4: superowl99 (6536 in chips)
Seat 5: BigRed0000 (15672 in chips)
Seat 6: bdubs3737 (15456 in chips)
Seat 7: MarMoss (9527 in chips)
Seat 8: staffpoker (25082 in chips)
Seat 9: Unten18 (21667 in chips)
Willibal: posts the ante 25
tkap243: posts the ante 25
Pokemyface85: posts the ante 25
superowl99: posts the ante 25
BigRed0000 : posts the ante 25
bdubs3737: posts the ante 25
MarMoss: posts the ante 25
staffpoker: posts the ante 25
Unten18: posts the ante 25
MarMoss: posts small blind 125
staffpoker: posts big blind 250

Holecards
Dealt to BigRed0000
Unten18: folds
Willibal: folds
tkap243: folds
Pokemyface85: folds
superowl99: folds
BigRed0000 : raises 450 to 700
bdubs3737: folds
MarMoss: folds
staffpoker: calls 450

Flop (Pot : $1,750.00)

   
staffpoker: checks
BigRed0000 : bets 975
staffpoker: calls 975

Turn (Pot : $3,700.00)

   
staffpoker: checks
BigRed0000 : bets 2125
staffpoker: calls 2125

River (Pot : $7,950.00)

   
staffpoker: checks
BigRed0000 : bets 5500
staffpoker: folds
Uncalled bet (5500) returned to BigRed0000
BigRed0000 collected 7950 from pot
BigRed0000 : doesn't show hand

Summary
Total pot 7950 | Rake 0
Board  
Seat 1: Willibal folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: tkap243 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Pokemyface85 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: superowl99 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: BigRed0000 collected (7950)
Seat 6: bdubs3737 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: MarMoss (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 8: staffpoker (big blind) folded on the River
Seat 9: Unten18 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

taqtix 2/939...


gl all!

150r 2nd chance

Dealt to TwistedEcho [Ad Ah]
Halfrek: folds
TwistedEcho: raises 60 to 90
Mescalin8: folds
nofingclue11: raises 4000 to 4090 and is all-in
updog: calls 1955 and is all-in
backmanslivs: folds
gladius_85: folds
TiltHappens: folds
$30K: folds
TwistedEcho: calls 4000
*** FLOP *** [2h 9c 3c]
*** TURN *** [2h 9c 3c]
*** RIVER *** [2h 9c 3c 3s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
TwistedEcho: shows [Ad Ah] (two pair, Aces and Threes)
nofingclue11: shows [Ac Ts] (two pair, Tens and Threes)
TwistedEcho collected 4270 from side pot
updog: shows [Td Th] (a full house, Tens full of Threes)
updog collected 5910 from main pot

yay

Submitted by : Pokemyface

PokerStars Game #20330014362: Tournament #200800013, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level VII (125/250) - 2008/09/11 18:15:47 ET
Table '200800013 211' 9-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: Willibal (21417 in chips)
Seat 2: tkap243 (36360 in chips)
Seat 3: Pokemyface85 (4880 in chips)
Seat 4: superowl99 (5736 in chips)
Seat 5: BigRed0000 (19397 in chips)
Seat 6: bdubs3737 (17081 in chips)
Seat 7: MarMoss (11676 in chips)
Seat 8: staffpoker (20982 in chips)
Seat 9: Unten18 (19367 in chips)
Willibal: posts the ante 25
tkap243: posts the ante 25
Pokemyface85 : posts the ante 25
superowl99: posts the ante 25
BigRed0000: posts the ante 25
bdubs3737: posts the ante 25
MarMoss: posts the ante 25
staffpoker: posts the ante 25
Unten18: posts the ante 25
BigRed0000: posts small blind 125
bdubs3737: posts big blind 250

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to Pokemyface85
MarMoss: folds
staffpoker: folds
Unten18: folds
Willibal: folds
tkap243: folds
Pokemyface85 : raises 400 to 650
superowl99: calls 650
BigRed0000: raises 1875 to 2525
bdubs3737: folds
Pokemyface85 : raises 2330 to 4855 and is all-in
superowl99: folds
BigRed0000: calls 2330

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $10,835.00)

   

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $10,835.00)

   

River (Pot : $10,835.00)

   

Showdown
BigRed0000: shows (three of a kind, Jacks)
Pokemyface85 : shows (a pair of Jacks)
BigRed0000 collected 10835 from pot
BigRed0000 said, "gg, ul."

Summary
Total pot 10835 | Rake 0
Board  
Seat 1: Willibal folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: tkap243 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Pokemyface85 showed and lost with a pair of Jacks
Seat 4: superowl99 (button) folded before Flop
Seat 5: BigRed0000 (small blind) showed and won (10835) with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 6: bdubs3737 (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: MarMoss folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: staffpoker folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: Unten18 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

oh the irony hehehe

Dealt to TwistedEcho [8h 8c]
krazieass: folds
Zefaki: folds
Bry23: folds
PiMaster: folds
TwistedEcho: raises 2450 to 2750 and is all-in
roudeboy: calls 2750
KtheKing: folds
krrrm: folds
Priestland: calls 2450
*** FLOP *** [7d 3s 9d]
Priestland: bets 3900
roudeboy: raises 20160 to 24060 and is all-in
Priestland: folds
Uncalled bet (20160) returned to roudeboy
*** TURN *** [7d 3s 9d]
*** RIVER *** [7d 3s 9d 6s]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
roudeboy: shows [Js Jc] (a pair of Jacks)
roudeboy collected 7800 from side pot
TwistedEcho: shows [8h 8c] (a pair of Eights)
roudeboy collected 8625 from main pot

out

15k

9k.... donked a ton to nitbuster

33k

- khan

God... tournament players arguing with each other. You're all idiots imo

There is some serious donk on donk violence going on in this thread

lol I just saw bonpapa in the player list, he's a horrible horrible NL100 reg

Submitted by : taqtiX

PokerStars Game #20331840981: Tournament #200800013, $200+$15 Hold'em No Limit - Level X (300/600) - 2008/09/11 19:35:59 ET
Table '200800013 82' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: palacedeano (29163 in chips)
Seat 2: TESIK (8340 in chips)
Seat 3: taqtiX (6525 in chips)
Seat 4: x-13 (32613 in chips)
Seat 6: pippz (24275 in chips)
Seat 7: halkier (45471 in chips)
Seat 8: ivory2 (10774 in chips)
Seat 9: chicors (30618 in chips)
palacedeano: posts the ante 50
TESIK: posts the ante 50
taqtiX : posts the ante 50
x-13: posts the ante 50
pippz: posts the ante 50
halkier: posts the ante 50
ivory2: posts the ante 50
chicors: posts the ante 50
x-13: posts small blind 300
pippz: posts big blind 600

Holecards(Odds)
Dealt to taqtiX
halkier: raises 1200 to 1800
ivory2: folds
chicors: folds
palacedeano: folds
TESIK: folds
taqtiX : raises 4675 to 6475 and is all-in
x-13: folds
pippz: folds
halkier: calls 4675

Flop(Odds) (Pot : $14,250.00)

   
vincera1 is connected

Turn(Odds) (Pot : $14,250.00)

   

River (Pot : $14,250.00)

   

Showdown
halkier: shows (three of a kind, Jacks)
taqtiX : shows (a straight, Ten to Ace)
taqtiX collected 14250 from pot

Summary
Total pot 14250 | Rake 0
Board  
Seat 1: palacedeano folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: TESIK folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: taqtiX (button) showed and won (14250) with a straight, Ten to Ace
Seat 4: x-13 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: pippz (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: halkier showed and lost with three of a kind, Jacks
Seat 8: ivory2 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: chicors folded before Flop (didn't bet)