Poker Botting

On January 31 2015 21:02 Smuft wrote: Interesting stuff, you're probably going to get some angry posts for this but thanks for sharing. Some questions: 1. Does your system get passed PS security? 2. What stakes were you profitable to at what win rate? 3. What stakes do the best botters beat and for what win rate? 4. What are you going to do next?

1) I haven't run any bots since mid-2011. At the time there weren't any security systems employed that could detect them. PS had the best anti-botting system of any room though.
2) Depended on the site, the game, and how long was played there. For example, double or nothings or superturbos had a much easier time ranking up with fewer hands than regular sngs. Some rooms the winrate was much higher for the same stakes, but significantly fewer games available.
3) I have no idea what the current landscape looks like, but I know up to $20 regular NL sngs and micro-stakes short and full stacked NL cash games were being beaten when I was working. The winrates were again pretty widespread. Some people were fine breaking even as long as rakeback or points could bring in some profit. There were many limit game botters as well, but I had no interest in that.
4) I am entrepreneur that builds tech companies. I plan on continuing that until I'm a billionaire.

Great post, thanks for sharing.

On January 31 2015 20:09 jchysk wrote: (Damn it feels good to be a gangster)

1. what is your education and programming background?

2. i know it's not related to this blog, but i remember from previous blogs you were involved in cryptocurrency, what do you think of BTC's crazy recent downswing?

3. since you mention building an automated financial trading system as a comparatively more profitable use of time, is that something you're pursuing or plan to pursue?

4. is the reason you no longer run the bots primarily because of site's evolving security, your algorithms becoming unprofitable as players improved, or something else?

I never wanted to accepted the fact of bots when i played on PS. i always thought their security was really good with those capcha's you had to type in. I am just in total awe.

seems like you invested so much already to give up. if you could at least get a break even one its free money.

On January 31 2015 21:50 bigredhoss wrote: Show nested quote + On January 31 2015 20:09 jchysk wrote: (Damn it feels good to be a gangster) 1. what is your education and programming background? 2. i know it's not related to this blog, but i remember from previous blogs you were involved in cryptocurrency, what do you think of BTC's crazy recent downswing? 3. since you mention building an automated financial trading system as a comparatively more profitable use of time, is that something you're pursuing or plan to pursue? 4. is the reason you no longer run the bots primarily because of site's evolving security, your algorithms becoming unprofitable as players improved, or something else?

1) I've been programming at least a little bit since I was 12 years old. I'd like to say I'm mostly self-taught, but I've found quite a few very intelligent people over the course of my life that I've managed to wrangle a good bit of education out of.

2) I can't say I've been pleased. The vast majority of my liquid worth is in cryptocurrencies. I have way larger swings now than when I played poker. I am a large stakeholder in a Bitcoin exchange though and any crazy movement means greater trading volume.

3) I've casually built some systems for analysis and do a tiny amount of trading on the side. I also have built arbitrage systems for sports betting and bitcoin trading. The difficulty is in shipping large amounts of money to various overseas accounts. Especially since many bitcoin sites and sportsbooks have a high shutdown rate as they are prone to being hacked or being fiscally/morally irresponsible.

4) After Black Friday, I felt a little bit defeated and after taking a short break I decided it was a good opportunity to reevaluate what I was doing in life and I took up full time entrepreneurship. Overall it was a bit draining to be operating in a constant gray area and in the back of my mind there was a recurring feeling of not contributing anything of value to the world.

can i have your brain?

I call BS, namely because I thought of this exact implementation years ago entirely on my own and your roadmap for a bot is nearly identical to what I personally pioneered in my own head, and I'm an idiot.

I wont believe it until you post some source code / screenshots of it in action. I expect excuses for why you have none of the above or refuse to do so, especially the source code, to properly conclude this troll post.

On January 31 2015 23:26 NewbSaibot wrote: I wont believe it until you post some source code / screenshots of it in action.

I as well would like to see some source code

On January 31 2015 23:26 NewbSaibot wrote: I call BS, namely because I thought of this exact implementation years ago entirely on my own and your roadmap for a bot is nearly identical to what I personally pioneered in my own head, and I'm an idiot. I wont believe it until you post some source code / screenshots of it in action. I expect excuses for why you have none of the above or refuse to do so, especially the source code, to properly conclude this troll post.

I doubt that what I built is "identical" to what you thought might be implemented, although there is a difference between thinking of doing something and actually executing. For one, that person that actually executes also gets to learn about the obstacles that may have been difficult to foresee.

There's no need to bait or attempt reverse psychology in order to trick me into releasing valuable source code as I don't particularly care if you believe me or not. You merely could have asked.
I absolutely do have all of the source code somewhere and if mods are not opposed with me doing so, I am willing to dig some of it up and post it.

On January 31 2015 22:39 jchysk wrote: 3) I've casually built some systems for analysis and do a tiny amount of trading on the side. I also have built arbitrage systems for sports betting and bitcoin trading. The difficulty is in shipping large amounts of money to various overseas accounts. Especially since many bitcoin sites and sportsbooks have a high shutdown rate as they are prone to being hacked or being fiscally/morally irresponsible. 4) After Black Friday, I felt a little bit defeated and after taking a short break I decided it was a good opportunity to reevaluate what I was doing in life and I took up full time entrepreneurship. Overall it was a bit draining to be operating in a constant gray area and in the back of my mind there was a recurring feeling of not contributing anything of value to the world.

re: sports betting

what is the reason for depositing at any of the "less reputable" sportsbooks? between pinnacle/5d/bovada/bookmaker/probably a couple others that are fairly reputable (at least as far as these things go...i have heard some complaints about these sites but nothing like being hacked or shutting down and taking customers money like you see in smaller books) what do you need other books for?

can you give some kind of generalization of what your system does? like does it just track lines at different sites and alert you when there's a rogue/slow-moving line that allows for arbitrage?

re: bots

i understand shifting focus to entrepreneurship, but couldn't you still run the bots if they're profitable without taking any of your time? maybe i'm naive about what's required to run a pokerbot even after it's created.

thanks for answering these questions btw

On February 01 2015 00:44 bigredhoss wrote: Show nested quote + On January 31 2015 22:39 jchysk wrote: 3) I've casually built some systems for analysis and do a tiny amount of trading on the side. I also have built arbitrage systems for sports betting and bitcoin trading. The difficulty is in shipping large amounts of money to various overseas accounts. Especially since many bitcoin sites and sportsbooks have a high shutdown rate as they are prone to being hacked or being fiscally/morally irresponsible. 4) After Black Friday, I felt a little bit defeated and after taking a short break I decided it was a good opportunity to reevaluate what I was doing in life and I took up full time entrepreneurship. Overall it was a bit draining to be operating in a constant gray area and in the back of my mind there was a recurring feeling of not contributing anything of value to the world. re: sports betting what is the reason for depositing at any of the "less reputable" sportsbooks? between pinnacle/5d/bovada/bookmaker/probably a couple others that are fairly reputable (at least as far as these things go...i have heard some complaints about these sites but nothing like being hacked or shutting down and taking customers money like you see in smaller books) what do you need other books for? can you give some kind of generalization of what your system does? like does it just track lines at different sites and alert you when there's a rogue/slow-moving line that allows for arbitrage? re: bots i understand shifting focus to entrepreneurship, but couldn't you still run the bots if they're profitable without taking any of your time? maybe i'm naive about what's required to run a pokerbot even after it's created. thanks for answering these questions btw

Generally when you're arbing, you have a very small edge after rake and fees to move your money around. So in order to make it worth it, you need to be making substantial sized bets. Even if you're guaranteeing profit regardless of the outcome of the game, you don't necessarily know where your money is going to end up and where you will need to move it from.
Many sites will only let you bet so much. Sometimes it's so they can adjust the line and then allow you to bet again or you're just capped out. So having money on many different sites when an arb presents itself gives you a better opportunity to fully take advantage.
There are also places that allow individuals to put up their own lines to any takers. This may be because they can't get enough action on a book or it's a relatively unpopular game. What you can do is take their action for a really good line and then split up the other side across as many books as you can.
Overall though, because many of the smaller books are shady, and money can be difficult or slow to move around I deemed it not worth the hassle.

As far as running a bot, you need accounts. I live in the US so all the sites that my software was made compatible with I can't legally play on. Trying to run bots on other peoples' accounts from other countries sounds like a troublesome task for numerous reasons. Also, the software would need to be updated every time additional security measures were put into place and the graphical interfaces of the lobby or a table changed. I remember dreading updates because I would have to figure out if anything broke.

This is really interesting/impressive if it's legit.

ur obv v smart, dedicated and different to normal people.. good to hear there's something in the back of your mind about using those talents to contribute to the world instead of purely self-enriching zerosum activity

Will you post some arbitrary source code please?

holy fucking shit... in awe. this is so beautiful. Very humbling + inspiring to read.

sounds like you made a better bot than 99% of solo botters

It seems you've successfully been your own boss for a long time; something that's very hard that most poker players have failed horribly at (including me). Some comments and advice on how you've accomplished that would be very interesting. More specifically:

1. What's your daily schedule like?

2. Where do you get the motivation to put in 12+ hour long days in year after year?

3. How do you decide what work needs to be done and how do you prioritize it?

4. How do you manage those priorities (tasks)? like do you setup a timeline months in advance and know what you'll be working on in June of this year?

5. Any material you've read on this subject that helped you a lot?

On February 01 2015 12:06 Romm3l wrote: ur obv v smart, dedicated and different to normal people.. good to hear there's something in the back of your mind about using those talents to contribute to the world instead of purely self-enriching zerosum activity

By pursuing self interest and maximizing our own good, through trade and entrepreneurship, society as a whole is better off then it would be if otherwise.
The saving the wales, holding hands and dancing around fires singing songs idea is over rated

On February 03 2015 21:42 TalentedTom wrote: Show nested quote + On February 01 2015 12:06 Romm3l wrote: ur obv v smart, dedicated and different to normal people.. good to hear there's something in the back of your mind about using those talents to contribute to the world instead of purely self-enriching zerosum activity By pursuing self interest and maximizing our own good, through trade and entrepreneurship, society as a whole is better off then it would be if otherwise. The saving the wales, holding hands and dancing around fires singing songs idea is over rated

trade and entrepreneurship is a positive sum game, but poker botting is zero sum

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