damn, hate when that stuff happens

fuckin morons -_- it sickens me im down to people like this

I don't know I kind of want to withhold comment on the hand cos I know you're supposed to be real good so there has to be something I'm missing.

Ok I can't stop completely, isn't this all kind of un-necessary. I mean do you really expect a fish to fold AK here, as far as he's concerned he's got 10 outs I'm sure, they don't even think twice, equally as far as he's concerned (cos he's meant to be an idiot or moron (sounds worse)) he might think you're bluffing (oh he was right here) equally plenty of his reraising range has hit the flop and has you drawing to less than 10 outs.

I just think it's kind of un-necessary to play this hand like this. Equally he was well ahead of you. Guess he played it well.

(and don't get me wrong I'm sure you are real good but... I don't love this hand)

i don't think the opponent played it well on purpose. It looks like a random push that got lucky.

its 4 handed. and we are in a 3bet raising war and cbetting every flop.

thats my response. this hand is 100% standerd and he is 100% a dumbass

at the time however my read was he was decent. he still seems somewhat decent except for this horrendous play with no fold equity against me and next to nothing invested

Yea of course acdawg I agree random push that got lucky.

However don't you expect him to push here if he's bad like doomer says?
Equally what range of hands can you put him on that he's folding to doomers reraise, I can put him on a bunch that'll call or move in with doomer drawing to 7 outs or less.

and also do you have to call here Doomer? You are getting 4:1, but do you for a fact know u have more than the '4' kings as outs?

i am reprsenting a hand that is atleast a J. he is going to miss the flop 2/3 the time and hes gonna have jackshit most of the time he hits anyway. so with the foldequity i have plus my equity in the hand makes this a standerd shove. Also for metagame reasons.
u can't look at it being he has AK AQ AJ ect ect ranges. when its 4 handed and u are litterally going crazy with 3betting. his range includes TONS of suited connectors and PPs and hands that missed the flop or haven't hit it quite hard at all. and if he hero calls (except with this hand) then i have decent equity against him anyway.

Yea I kinda get that doomer I suppose so if you want to play this flop from position wouldn't you prefer a flat call and play the turn from there (ie if he checks take the pot and if he bets move in if you really have that read), because there is soooo many hands on a JTx flop that are just gonna move in against you after you raise the flop and have you drawing very slim.

But the 3 bet raising war and cbetting every flop is certainly a (big) consideration that I wasn't aware of when I first read the post I thought it was just a random 3 bet hand where he has a pretty decent range of cards (even though I'm assuming his range isn't that weak still). I don't know I'm going to talk to ket or midian about this hand and see their thoughts. They're so good at putting them into writing

and yes i have to call once he shoves because usually im gonna have 7 outs or even 10. sometimes only 4 but getting 4:1 or so its a very trivial call

ok obv my last response was before reading your last one and the one before was before reading the one before that.

No thats fine Doomer I mean I don't think it's standard and I definately think you're wrong to say that. However if you think his range is that wide then I suppose there's very little else you can do. However I hate when people say "i'm representing at least this or that how can they call etc" when in reality you didn't have that, you know?

But God DooMer I know what it's like to play in super aggro high stakes games and I still don't think this is remotely close to standard, but as I said I'd like to think about it at a little more.

and yes you have to call once he shoves ^_^

yea i could possiblely just float but the way the match was going i just dediced that it would be better to raise and commit myself. he was very aggresive and i felt that if i floated often times he'd barrel the turn here and get himself commited with something wierd or do something dumb. to be honest im sleepy and i played 8k hands today so it might not be the best play but its definitely profitable against this player with the game flow

he reads your soul

Yeah I mean you were in the hand not me, just I think sometimes it's nice to look at a hand again I mean against a super aggro opponent I'm almost always going to commit myself with 10 outs in a 3 bet pot if his range is pretty wide so don't think I'm trying to be a nit here cos I'm not just this is one of the times I might be more inclined to not than to. But I could be wrong I'm not saying you are just giving my thoughts.

and Yea I mean nice stack and nice 8k hands. Things like this don't remotely matter when you play that many hands against this level of play. I suppose because I play so few hands I like to be as much ev+ as possible in each one ^_^

in reality here tho. i am going to have the goods here more often than not. im representing exactly what i'd usually have in this situation.

Yea thats fair. You're gonna have the goods more often than not here but also you expect alot of the time to get paid when you do, I certainly would expect to get paid here with TT AA or KK alot here so it's not quite logical to expect to get paid often when you have the hand and him fold when you don't

But as I said one of us is right but it's really really marginal either way just both of us like to get the last word in so unless I've got anything groundbreaking to say I'm not going to reply until I've well got something groundbreaking to say. Sorry for this DooMer probably fucked you off right before bed for no reason ;o