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Submitted by : Muhweli

PokerStars Game #3283369570: Hold'em No Limit ($0.25/$0.50) - 2005/12/09 - 07:16:39 (ET)
Table 'Arsinoe' Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: hodoulos ($118.95 in chips)
Seat 2: 5spades ($72.55 in chips)
Seat 3: brevenge ($106.95 in chips)
Seat 4: Muhweli ($108.50 in chips)
Seat 5: OOPS-LB ($37.55 in chips)
Seat 6: markp55 ($26.70 in chips)
5spades: posts small blind $0.25
brevenge: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Muhweli ]
Muhweli: raises $1 to $1.50
OOPS-LB: folds
markp55: folds
hodoulos: folds
5spades: folds
brevenge: calls $1
*** FLOP *** ]
brevenge: bets $3
Muhweli: raises $5 to $8
brevenge: calls $5
*** TURN *** ]
brevenge: bets $18
Muhweli said, "Last time you had utter crap, this time I think you have utter crap too"
Muhweli said, "flop just hit ya :/"
Muhweli said, "not saying anything? NErvous I'll call?"
Muhweli: folds
brevenge collected $18.30 from pot
brevenge: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $19.25 | Rake $0.95
Board ]
Seat 1: hodoulos (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: 5spades (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: brevenge (big blind) collected ($18.30)
Seat 4: Muhweli folded on the Turn
Seat 5: OOPS-LB folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: markp55 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

Id have a hard time folding considering the example you gave. However waiting for a better spot vs such a maniac is fine too.

agh i played on .25/.50 for like 6 hours because of lack of tables and seriously have not won a pot over $15 ...so annoying to have totally dead cards the only time you play above your limits -_______- at least i didn't lose anything (except like $20 to blinds ffs)

The betting patterns of those two hands correspond in no way whatsoever?

I fail to see why you would call him here without a specific read, especially BECAUSE of the other hand.

The only time you say.

And yea I had hard time folding this...

On December 09 2005 04:44 Nazgul wrote: The betting patterns of those two hands correspond in no way whatsoever? I fail to see why you would call him here without a specific read, especially BECAUSE of the other hand.

I cant see how the betting patterns are important cos hes obviously a complete moron. The guy called $20 on the river with an unpaired AT...

Why is this a fold barring a specific read?

On December 09 2005 04:44 Nazgul wrote: The betting patterns of those two hands correspond in no way whatsoever? I fail to see why you would call him here without a specific read, especially BECAUSE of the other hand.

Heh, yea my point wasn't to point out an obvious betting pattern but that he is a complete idiot... Here's the hand that eventually broke him http://www.liquidpoker.net/h/1586

Anyway, on the original subject, I still doubt if it was a good laydown... he could've also two paired his rags or got a low set - or just had the 4. Could you make the call there? Especially after he calls the flop reraise.

On December 09 2005 04:58 GoodKarma wrote: I cant see how the betting patterns are important cos hes obviously a complete moron. The guy called $20 on the river with an unpaired AT... Why is this a fold barring a specific read?

Because in one situation he CALLS, and in the other he BETS. Fish can hit hands, too. If someone is a calling station, why should you pay him off when he starts betting (not to mention JJ being a very mediocre hand especially on that board)? It's essential when playing against fish to note how they like to bet. The fact that he's a moron doesn't give you the excuse to pay him off everytime he hits something.

On December 09 2005 05:11 Nazgul wrote: Show nested quote + On December 09 2005 04:58 GoodKarma wrote: I cant see how the betting patterns are important cos hes obviously a complete moron. The guy called $20 on the river with an unpaired AT... Why is this a fold barring a specific read? Because in one situation he CALLS, and in the other he BETS. Fish can hit hands, too. If someone is a calling station, why should you pay him off when he starts betting (not to mention JJ being a very mediocre hand especially on that board)? It's essential when playing against fish to note how they like to bet. The fact that he's a moron doesn't give you the excuse to pay him off everytime he hits something.

But Muhweli noted that "He was very aggressive in general, probably a lot with nothing...". You cant assume bet means he has a real hand and call means he doesnt from two samples.

either way muhweli can pick a better spot than this, where he could be easily drawing dead

i wouldn't call FTR, you really think that looks like a bluff?

On December 09 2005 05:21 GoodKarma wrote: But Muhweli noted that "He was very aggressive in general, probably a lot with nothing...". You cant assume bet means he has a real hand and call means he doesnt from two samples.

Nope but what you can assume is that the board looks alot like something where he could have a hand. And that JJ is quite aweful here so you better be sure of it when you start getting involved. Also you may count on another exponential bet on the river.

You're making a decision to go allin here on the turn. For which I see no reason to do with a mediocre hand on a pot that isn't so much to begin with. Had this been checked on turn and he bet $18 on the river I could understand your opinion.

On December 09 2005 05:29 Nazgul wrote: Nope but what you can assume is that the board looks alot like something where he could have a hand. And that JJ is quite aweful here so you better be sure of it when you start getting involved. Also you may count on another exponential bet on the river. You're making a decision to go allin here on the turn. For which I see no reason to do with a mediocre hand on a pot that isn't so much to begin with.

Thanks. I just need to know the reasoning behind good players opinions.

Yep

Sun shines on a dog's ass every once in a while. If this guy is really a calling station then just wait for a better situation than this to get paid off. He led the flop then led the turn. It's possible he has a small overpair like 88-TT, but my guess is the worst possible hand he could have is 56. Most likely a set, possibly a 4. This board probably hit him and hit him hard, so just get ouf of the hand.

good fold

yeah, i bet he had a4o