KQs by thewh00sel

Playing 9-handed 5/10NL @ bellagio

Effective Stacks:

Lojack - $5,000 - Me
CO - $2,000 - Loose online kid seems like a breakeven live player
BTN - $2,000 - Live reg who's decent winner but plays weird sometimes; also i picked off a river all in bluff he made earlier in the session but hes not tilted from what i can tell.
Straddle - $1,000 unknown

I raise to 60 with Kc Qc
CO calls
BTN calls
Straddle calls

Flop Qd Qh 9h (pot 255)
Straddle Checks
I bet 180
CO calls 180
BTN calls 180
Straddle folds

Turn Qd Qh 9h Js (pot 795)
I check?
CO checks
BTN bets 400 with 1400 behind

I ???

Dilemma is that I don't think BTN flats any worse Q's pf except QTs, J is pretty much the worst card and I have a guy who flatted me to act behind me and it feels like if I check-call here I'm going to be check-folding the river a ton or check-heroing hoping I'm against a missed flush draw or JT that he decided to bluff with on the turn. Do you guys just continue betting on the turn and fold to a raise? Bet/go with it? Check/call ch fold? chrai? What if we check call and the river is a ten? heart? brick?

Start with a call then go with your live pro read on the river.

raising seems totally worthless and if you aren't gonna cbet turn than it seems like you should be calling the button. river definitely will be tough though :/

Betting out on turn won't solve you're problem cuz he could easily flat better hands and ur stuck in the same river dilemma as when u c/c turn.

I gotta agree that you should just call turn and see what happens. Its only a half-pot bet almost giving you odds to draw out, and with you're "weird" read on villain im not looking into an unthreatening betsize as necessarily being an indicator of strength. In a vacuum this might be a fold though, cuz as you said you're really only beating one legitimate value hand (qts).

C/c turn and c/f blank river

wtf seriously?

5-10 live at bellagio we have trips with good kicker on a very drawy board and we're thinking of folding the turn? lol..........

I'm betting turn here 99% of the time and the guy would have to be the sickest of nits for me to fold to a raise. Your effectively 100BB deep since it's straddled.

with the action I'm def calling and calling almost any river and feeling good about it.

results: I folded turn and posted it on LP

I think I call but I feel gross and dirty because you gotta be real careful on most rivers.

On July 22 2011 03:40 kaboom wrote: wtf seriously? 5-10 live at bellagio we have trips with good kicker on a very drawy board and we're thinking of folding the turn? lol.......... I'm betting turn here 99% of the time and the guy would have to be the sickest of nits for me to fold to a raise. Your effectively 100BB deep since it's straddled. with the action I'm def calling and calling almost any river and feeling good about it.

your read on flop should almost always make it clear that either the turn is a definite bet/call (or check/call whole way works too) or a definite check/fold. check/calling turn to evaluate river is like saying "i didn't see, hear, or generally pick up on anything whatsoever on the flop, so i have no idea whether either of these guys has the strong or drawy part of his range, so i'm gonna try to do something in between the two viable options."

i can hardly imagine betting the flop, seeing the two villains call, and not being confident where they both stand, given your descriptions of them. with certain better players, sure, but not in this case. you won't be right 100% of the time but a generally decisive, make-a-read-and-go-with-it approach is going to far outperform an indecisive, call-and-evaluate approach all day long, for someone with your extensive background in live play.