blackjacki2 United States. Apr 15 2011 13:46. Posts 2582
18.04 Update: This is quite big so im posting in red:
Pokerstars’ representative PokerStars Steve has confirmed that players that relocate outside of the US will have full access to their accounts including access to their funds.
PokersStars has yet to officially respond to inquiries regarding the exact requirements players will need to meet in order to prove relocation.
Statement from Full Tilt Poker Regarding Recent Check Withdrawal Issues
In light of recent events involving the freezing of certain accounts,
Full Tilt Poker would like to assure all players that their funds remain safe and secure. Processing of both deposit and withdrawal requests is proceeding as normal and is still available to all of our players.
All players who were affected by the current situation have had their funds returned to their accounts and all new withdrawal requests are processing normally. We assure all players on Full Tilt Poker that your online playing experience will not change and that you will be able to both deposit and withdraw funds as needed. Your money remains safe, secure and accessible at all times.
Full Tilt Poker remains committed to the protection of our players’ security and legal rights, and will continue to provide the best and safest online poker room available worldwide
pokerstars statement
"As you may have heard, we have had to suspend real money poker sercies to people based in the US due to legal developments there. These developments are confined to the US and do not have any impact on your ability to continue using our services.
Please be assured player balances are safe, There is no cause for concern. For all customers outside the US it is business as usual.
The PokerStars website has been moved to www.pokerstars.eu, and our Support email address is now support@pokerstars.eu. We apologise to our players for any inconvenience caused by this disruption.
Please be aware that we are currently experiencing a very high volume of emails, so our response times are delayed. We will answer players emails as soon as possible. Thank you for your patience and understanding in this matter."
Edited ur post, linked images directly from rooms - Defrag
Last edit: 18/04/2011 12:00
1
egood United States. Apr 15 2011 13:48. Posts 1883
pokerstars.com and ub.com are seized, the other ones still work or are back up.
1
egood United States. Apr 15 2011 13:49. Posts 1883
also not sure about this, the page says illegal gambling sites, but afaik i thought gambling sites weren't illegal? Also these sites arent based in the us? are the sites hosted by US companies?
1
terrybunny19240 United States. Apr 15 2011 13:51. Posts 13829
what? why dont' u link the 2p2 thread if there is more info.. this thread is useless
pokerstars.com is up and working normally
1
egood United States. Apr 15 2011 13:52. Posts 1883
guy at 2p2 says DNS propagation still going on. I get the FBI page when i click that link.
1
terrybunny19240 United States. Apr 15 2011 13:52. Posts 13829
If you got any money on any of these sites I bet you should
I think this only really pertains to America though.
No if they seize bank accounts Restraining orders were issued against more than 75 bank accounts used by the poker companies and their payment processors, while five Internet domain names used by the companies to host poker games were seized, federal authorities added in a statement.
Holy FUCK. Looks like my earlier questions about Party losing the US market just became extremely pertinent.
Researchers used brain scans to show that when straight men looked at pictures of women in bikinis, areas of the brain that normally light up in anticipation of using tools, like spanners and screwdrivers, were activated.
On April 15 2011 13:36 TheMusiC wrote:
only in the united states
not for these sites
are u saying i should cashout all money because i might not be able to do this later?
1
egood United States. Apr 15 2011 14:43. Posts 1883
People not in the US are fine I'm pretty sure. if you're worried just cash out to neteller or something. Worst case scenario is the sites end up pulling out of the US completely and then we're fucked.
4
Bigbobm United States. Apr 15 2011 14:47. Posts 5512
odd timing that they do this right at the end of tax season
Its time to stop thinking like a bitch and think smart like a poker player - ket
1
Stroggoz New Zealand. Apr 15 2011 14:50. Posts 5365
how can all 4 websites be involved in whatever it is they are doing. This must be something extremely huge or nothing at all.
One of 3 non decent human beings on a site of 5 people with between 2-3 decent human beings
Hmm... US government trying to fix their debt or something?
Money laundering and bank fraud seem pretty serious accusations. Even if it's all bogus and the accounts got frozen, trials and other legal stuff might take some time. This in turn will result in a TON of angry and confused customers, not to mention the credibility hit for ALL of the online poker industry (I mean, if it happened to the biggest, why not the others?).
i cashed out from PS but i cant cash out from FTP it say their is no secure connection
1
palak United States. Apr 15 2011 15:06. Posts 4601
All 4 sites were technically breaking all the laws they are charged with breaking. It was just one of those situations where the law (in this case) is completely retarded and no one seemed to give a fuck so why the hell bother cracking down on the fucking legit poker sites when they should be trying to crack down on organized crime money laundering and shit. This is really fucking aggravating that they would actually waste the time and money to enforce these laws. For people wondering about money and accounts. The FBI froze 75 of the poker company accounts. If this goes through the US gov't will seize all american assets (bank accounts, money, etc) of PS,FTP,AP immediately and will file a request with foreign governments that any foreign bank accounts associated with those sites also be handed over to the US gov't. It will be up to each foreign gov't separately to decide whether or not to comply. Also if this is a typical investigation then the US gov't has already filed with foreign governments to have the bank accounts handed over.
dont tap the glass...im about ready to take a fucking hammer to the aquarium
Conspiracy toCommit Bank Fraud and Wire Fraud
ISAI SCHEINBERG,RAYMOND BITAR,BRENT BECKLEY,NELSON BURTNICK,PAUL TATE,RYAN LANG,BRADLEY FRANZEN,IRA RUBIN,CHAD ELIE
30 years in prison;fine of $1,000,000or twice the grossgain or loss; 5years supervisedrelease; forfeitureof proceeds ofoffense
9
Money LaunderingConspiracy
ISAI SCHEINBERG,RAYMOND BITAR,BRENT BECKLEY,NELSON BURTNICK,PAUL TATE,RYAN LANG,BRADLEY FRANZEN,IRA RUBIN,CHAD ELIE,JOHN CAMPOS
20 years in prison;fine of $500,000 ortwice the amount laundered; 3 yearssupervised release;forfeiture of proceeds of offense
On April 15 2011 14:14 Tensai176 wrote:
Is this only in the US?
I'm in Canada and I can log onto both just fine...
Edit: Both FT and PS
No, some ISPs needs few hours to update DNS and redirect to the new FBI one.
A Hard Way to Make an Easy Living
Last edit: 15/04/2011 15:17
1
Jhyun88 United States. Apr 15 2011 15:17. Posts 1383
I'm in California and all the sites work fine for me...
1
palak United States. Apr 15 2011 15:17. Posts 4601
From 2+2
"Defendants BITAR, SCHEINBERG, BURTNICK, TATE, TOM, BECKLEY, RUBIN and LANG are not presently in the United States and have not yet been arrested. The U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York is working with foreign law enforcement agencies and Interpol to secure the arrest of these defendants and the seizure of criminal proceeds located abroad."
So the US gov't is in the process of seizing all assets related to the poker sites world wide.
EDIT: In Pittsburgh, Pokerstars has the FBI warning, FTP and UB work fine.
dont tap the glass...im about ready to take a fucking hammer to the aquarium
Last edit: 15/04/2011 15:20
1
DooMeR United States. Apr 15 2011 15:20. Posts 8562
POKERSTARS is not letting me join new tables. they arent letting americans play realmoney anymore
I just saved a bunch of money on my car insurance, by running away from the scene of an accident.
1
ahole-surprise United States. Apr 15 2011 15:23. Posts 78
DAMN IT i only had two more days left in the Take 2 challenge on fulltilt ::big picture::
1
sniderstyle United States. Apr 15 2011 15:23. Posts 2046
wow, i cant join any tables either . panic cashed out my roll
Genginho: lose today 100 dollar only because of fishs they called and had luck on river
1
Jubert69 United States. Apr 15 2011 15:24. Posts 3191
On April 15 2011 14:20 DooMeR wrote:
POKERSTARS is not letting me join new tables. they arent letting americans play realmoney anymore
Does that mean that LP.net PS avatars (look to your left) will be taken down too?
You do not need eyes to see, you need vision.
1
ahole-surprise United States. Apr 15 2011 15:25. Posts 78
FYI the feds seized the payment processors, so withdrawing probably is not going to actually work and may actually make it more difficult to get your money if/when things normalize.
looks like i'm heading to foxwoods tonight.
1
YouGoTGoT United States. Apr 15 2011 15:26. Posts 1118
do any US players use wire transfeR?
YA I TALK SHIT, GOTTA DEFECATE TO CONVERSATE
1
blackjacki2 United States. Apr 15 2011 15:27. Posts 2582
On April 15 2011 14:23 sniderstyle wrote:
wow, i cant join any tables either . panic cashed out my roll
Does it give you a message? if yes what does it say?
1
YouGoTGoT United States. Apr 15 2011 15:28. Posts 1118
snapped cashed out w/ check method, hope I get my monies
On April 15 2011 14:25 ahole-surprise wrote:
FYI the feds seized the payment processors, so withdrawing probably is not going to actually work and may actually make it more difficult to get your money if/when things normalize.
looks like i'm heading to foxwoods tonight.
ya, guess I won't withdraw even though I'm not from the states(?)
PanoRaMa United States. Apr 15 2011 15:41. Posts 1655
I just woke up and just got hit with this avalanche of new info...right now it seems like cashing out is either not an option or tracked by the feds (which doesn't necessarily have to be a bad thing tho), that maybe the better option would be to transfer my roll to people outside of the US until everythings been clear? What are the chances of my roll being seized or someshit if I leave it in my accounts? I thought it'd be 0% but idk
http://panorama.liquidpoker.net
1
Saturnize United States. Apr 15 2011 15:42. Posts 263
I don't understand. Whenever i go to ps or ftp i get the normal homepage.
What is this federal looking page everyone keeps posting.
You are smart, hard worker, like a KOREA! Kim
1
[GiTM]-Ace United States. Apr 15 2011 15:43. Posts 1585
transfers not allowed atm
[GiTM]- GoSu in the Making
1
Elite00 United States. Apr 15 2011 15:43. Posts 683
Meet The Boy Genius Who Just Took Down The Online Poker Industry
The internet is still coming to grips with the huge online gambling bust that just took down the U.S.'s three biggest online poker sites.
But Australia's Courier-Mail already has the scoop on the one man who may have single-handedly built the online industry ... then handed it to the U.S. government on a platter.
According to this story, Daniel Tzvetkoff was a young Australian entrepreneur who set up the payment processing schemes used by the biggest poker sites to handle their (mostly illegal) transactions.
He made Full Tilt Poker and Poker Stars millions of dollars — and making as much $150,000 a day for himself — but then got even more greedy and started taking them for himself. They sued him, demanding more than $100 million of their own money back.
Then last April, Tzvetkoff was arrested in Las Vegas and charged with the same crimes those sites founders were charged with today: money laundering, bank fraud, wire fraud. As an Australian citizen with a lot of wealth, he was considered a flight risk and denied bail.
Then after a "secret" meeting with prosecutors, he was suddenly out on bail. And now, his former colleagues are the ones facing serious jail time.
Daniel Tzvetkoff knows the operations of these poker site inside and out. He's the one man positioned to give these companies to the U.S. Attorneys on a silver platter. And it looks like that's exactly what he did, cooperating with the authorities to avoid his own lengthy jail sentence.
All the major gambling prosecutions in the U.S., since Tzvetkoff's arrest have been run out of the office of Arlo Devlin-Brown, the Manhattan Asst. U.S. Attorney, who is Tzvetkoff's "handler."
According to a source, "He knows how to reverse-engineer transactions to determine its original source," making him very valuable to investigators.
And the biggest irony of all? It's been rumored that the only reason the FBI got their hands on him is because Full Tilt or Poker Stars (the companies he used to work for and stole from) tipped off the FBI that he was going to be traveling to the United States
They ratted him out ... and he turned the tables. No honor among thieves.
And as the Courier Mail put it, if this were still the old days, he'd buried in the Las Vegas desert right now.
A Hard Way to Make an Easy Living
1
TheHuHu3 United States. Apr 15 2011 15:45. Posts 5544
I can still play on FTP... So why is it that PokerStars got owned and won't allow US players to play real money games but FTP can?
TheHuHu4 coming soon :)
1
TheMusiC United States. Apr 15 2011 15:45. Posts 39
Meet The Boy Genius Who Just Took Down The Online Poker Industry
The internet is still coming to grips with the huge online gambling bust that just took down the U.S.'s three biggest online poker sites.
But Australia's Courier-Mail already has the scoop on the one man who may have single-handedly built the online industry ... then handed it to the U.S. government on a platter.
According to this story, Daniel Tzvetkoff was a young Australian entrepreneur who set up the payment processing schemes used by the biggest poker sites to handle their (mostly illegal) transactions.
He made Full Tilt Poker and Poker Stars millions of dollars — and making as much $150,000 a day for himself — but then got even more greedy and started taking them for himself. They sued him, demanding more than $100 million of their own money back.
Then last April, Tzvetkoff was arrested in Las Vegas and charged with the same crimes those sites founders were charged with today: money laundering, bank fraud, wire fraud. As an Australian citizen with a lot of wealth, he was considered a flight risk and denied bail.
Then after a "secret" meeting with prosecutors, he was suddenly out on bail. And now, his former colleagues are the ones facing serious jail time.
Daniel Tzvetkoff knows the operations of these poker site inside and out. He's the one man positioned to give these companies to the U.S. Attorneys on a silver platter. And it looks like that's exactly what he did, cooperating with the authorities to avoid his own lengthy jail sentence.
All the major gambling prosecutions in the U.S., since Tzvetkoff's arrest have been run out of the office of Arlo Devlin-Brown, the Manhattan Asst. U.S. Attorney, who is Tzvetkoff's "handler."
According to a source, "He knows how to reverse-engineer transactions to determine its original source," making him very valuable to investigators.
And the biggest irony of all? It's been rumored that the only reason the FBI got their hands on him is because Full Tilt or Poker Stars (the companies he used to work for and stole from) tipped off the FBI that he was going to be traveling to the United States
They ratted him out ... and he turned the tables. No honor among thieves.
And as the Courier Mail put it, if this were still the old days, he'd buried in the Las Vegas desert right now.
Meet The Boy Genius Who Just Took Down The Online Poker Industry
The internet is still coming to grips with the huge online gambling bust that just took down the U.S.'s three biggest online poker sites.
But Australia's Courier-Mail already has the scoop on the one man who may have single-handedly built the online industry ... then handed it to the U.S. government on a platter.
According to this story, Daniel Tzvetkoff was a young Australian entrepreneur who set up the payment processing schemes used by the biggest poker sites to handle their (mostly illegal) transactions.
He made Full Tilt Poker and Poker Stars millions of dollars — and making as much $150,000 a day for himself — but then got even more greedy and started taking them for himself. They sued him, demanding more than $100 million of their own money back.
Then last April, Tzvetkoff was arrested in Las Vegas and charged with the same crimes those sites founders were charged with today: money laundering, bank fraud, wire fraud. As an Australian citizen with a lot of wealth, he was considered a flight risk and denied bail.
Then after a "secret" meeting with prosecutors, he was suddenly out on bail. And now, his former colleagues are the ones facing serious jail time.
Daniel Tzvetkoff knows the operations of these poker site inside and out. He's the one man positioned to give these companies to the U.S. Attorneys on a silver platter. And it looks like that's exactly what he did, cooperating with the authorities to avoid his own lengthy jail sentence.
All the major gambling prosecutions in the U.S., since Tzvetkoff's arrest have been run out of the office of Arlo Devlin-Brown, the Manhattan Asst. U.S. Attorney, who is Tzvetkoff's "handler."
According to a source, "He knows how to reverse-engineer transactions to determine its original source," making him very valuable to investigators.
And the biggest irony of all? It's been rumored that the only reason the FBI got their hands on him is because Full Tilt or Poker Stars (the companies he used to work for and stole from) tipped off the FBI that he was going to be traveling to the United States
They ratted him out ... and he turned the tables. No honor among thieves.
And as the Courier Mail put it, if this were still the old days, he'd buried in the Las Vegas desert right now.
I'm sure PS/FTP have enough money to make sure he ends up dead anyway
On April 15 2011 14:45 TheHuHu3 wrote:
I can still play on FTP... So why is it that PokerStars got owned and won't allow US players to play real money games but FTP can?
lots of friends cant cash out from FTP but can from PS...
On April 15 2011 14:45 TheHuHu3 wrote:
I can still play on FTP... So why is it that PokerStars got owned and won't allow US players to play real money games but FTP can?
I have the same question. I can play on FTP with no problems but am wondering, if/when that will change
NeillyJQ: I really wanted to prove to myself I could beat NL200, I did over a small sample, and believe Ill be crushing there in the future.
On April 15 2011 14:49 YouGoTGoT wrote:
My PS cashout went thru but Im not sure if ill ever get that check, and then i will be scared to deposit it, dont want it bouncing.
how can you guys be joking? the fuck is wrong with you guys?
you realise what this mean for online poker in generaL?
do you realise how much people gona get fucked over it?
1
YoMeR United States. Apr 15 2011 15:55. Posts 12438
On April 15 2011 14:53 MiPwnYa wrote:
I hope drinks and food are still gonna be free at PS party after EPT Madrid
hahaha
1
Jhyun88 United States. Apr 15 2011 15:58. Posts 1383
Maybe reality isn't kicking in for me. I'm not worried.... yet...
1
Carthac United States. Apr 15 2011 15:59. Posts 1343
On April 15 2011 14:55 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote:
how can you guys be joking? the fuck is wrong with you guys?
you realise what this mean for online poker in generaL?
do you realise how much people gona get fucked over it?
Because there is nothing any of us can do. Calm down
1
TheHuHu3 United States. Apr 15 2011 16:00. Posts 5544
To the people cashing out : why are you doing it? As far as the news says, FBI has seized the payment processors and not the sizes themselves, which is why people from not America can still play.
Basically, if you cash out your money will be in limbo for who the fuck knows how long. I guess if you have Neteller or Moneybookers it's different but I thought US niggas can't use those? I always used regular checks.
TheHuHu4 coming soon :)
1
TheHuHu3 United States. Apr 15 2011 16:01. Posts 5544
Mr Boogerz: omgclayaiken you must have a lot on here too aren't you at least a little worried?
Mr Boogerz: sorry for this distraction
OMGClayAiken: i am
OMGClayAiken: but nothing i can do about it
OMGClayAiken: but wait and see
^--Pretty much sums up all my thoughts right now. Nigga is playing while this is all going down, lol .
On April 15 2011 14:55 HeRoS)eNGagE wrote:
how can you guys be joking? the fuck is wrong with you guys?
you realise what this mean for online poker in generaL?
do you realise how much people gona get fucked over it?
Because there is nothing any of us can do. Calm down
so lets joke around with some people having 500k blocked
To be clear, I use Neteller and I hope the withdrawal goes through. As soon as the case clears out and there will be no doubt that playing on PS is safe, I will deposit the money back.
BIBLE (Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth)
1
sniderstyle United States. Apr 15 2011 16:05. Posts 2046
i cashed out by e-check at 2:22pm
Just got approved now at 2:59pm
so thats working so far, will let you know when it gets to my checking account
Genginho: lose today 100 dollar only because of fishs they called and had luck on river
I think its pointless to cashout right now. FTP already removed the option and all the processors have been stopped. So pokerstars can tell you that your cashout is accepted but I wouldn't expect to actually get your money for a long long time.
Cmon noone saw this coming ? Of course not so sudden and out from nowhere
This doesnt suck for americans only ( Lol edited ) - yes you guys are hardcorely screwed cause you could lose your money but no european wants their sites to get filled up with scandinavian ex ftp/ps regs believe me. And the US also brings the largest amount of fish to the tables
And Heroes)Engage ... people joke with stuff in Haiti/Japan etc. which is far more devastating you think they d care if someone loses 500k coz of this ridiculous enforcement?
Gnarly United States. Apr 15 2011 16:11. Posts 1723
So whack. Do they expect those who have serious money on the sites to not get their money? I bet there's going to be a lot of lawsuits from players wanting their money.
Diversify or fossilize!
1
n0rthf4ce United States. Apr 15 2011 16:16. Posts 8119
as soon as I wake up how fun. Anyone want FTP for cash? --;
so the "is this a good time to start playing poker?" threads will be over too
Club NL10 ballers
1
Venrae United States. Apr 15 2011 16:16. Posts 1545
So this doesn't have anything to do with actually playing poker, the only real issue is stars/ftp/absolute got busted for using illegal methods to complete transactions with us citizens.
Not good, but not as bad as I had initially thought.
This still fucking blows though =[
Learn to appreciate the value of the dollar. The rest is easy. (Hurricane @ TL)
On April 15 2011 15:16 Venrae wrote:
So this doesn't have anything to do with actually playing poker, the only real issue is stars/ftp/absolute got busted for using illegal methods to complete transactions with us citizens.
Not good, but not as bad as I had initially thought.
This still fucking blows though =[
I think this is actually much much worse. In terms of the what the usa government cares more about they care 1000x more about money laundering and illegal money transfers than they do about people playing poker.
Last edit: 15/04/2011 16:22
1
YouGoTGoT United States. Apr 15 2011 16:23. Posts 1118
On April 15 2011 15:16 Venrae wrote:
So this doesn't have anything to do with actually playing poker, the only real issue is stars/ftp/absolute got busted for using illegal methods to complete transactions with us citizens.
Not good, but not as bad as I had initially thought.
This still fucking blows though =[
I think this is actually much much worse. In terms of the what the usa government cares more about they care 1000x more about money laundering and illegal money transfers than they do about people playing poker.
Your statement is quite confusing. Its obviously lol worse for the poker companies, but better for the players since we are not the ones being targeted.
On April 15 2011 15:06 Mig wrote:
I think its pointless to cashout right now. FTP already removed the option and all the processors have been stopped. So pokerstars can tell you that your cashout is accepted but I wouldn't expect to actually get your money for a long long time.
Well I believe I receive my cashouts from European bank accounts, on which the FBI probably doesnt have any jurisdiction on so I think it's worth a shot.
1
asdf2000 United States. Apr 15 2011 16:24. Posts 7708
Get this. My buddy cashed a pokerstars check for $1500 8 days ago. It showed the $1500 as processing to be added to his account.
Yesterday the transaction was canceled, apparently.
So those of you who are cashing out in U.S.... it's prolly not gonna work.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
1
YouGoTGoT United States. Apr 15 2011 16:25. Posts 1118
On April 15 2011 15:24 asdf2000 wrote:
Get this. My buddy cashed a pokerstars check for $1500 8 days ago. It showed the $1500 as processing to be added to his account.
Yesterday the transaction was canceled, apparently.
So those of you who are cashing out in U.S.... it's prolly not gonna work.
On April 15 2011 15:16 Venrae wrote:
So this doesn't have anything to do with actually playing poker, the only real issue is stars/ftp/absolute got busted for using illegal methods to complete transactions with us citizens.
Not good, but not as bad as I had initially thought.
This still fucking blows though =[
I think this is actually much much worse. In terms of the what the usa government cares more about they care 1000x more about money laundering and illegal money transfers than they do about people playing poker.
It's way worse for the prospective sites yes, but as a player in the US it is somewhat relieving to know that they are punishing fraudulent bank transfers and not the act of playing poker online.
Learn to appreciate the value of the dollar. The rest is easy. (Hurricane @ TL)
1
asdf2000 United States. Apr 15 2011 16:28. Posts 7708
He also says that the $1500 isn't back in his stars account. Dunno how long it'd take for it to get back there, though.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
On April 15 2011 15:06 Mig wrote:
I think its pointless to cashout right now. FTP already removed the option and all the processors have been stopped. So pokerstars can tell you that your cashout is accepted but I wouldn't expect to actually get your money for a long long time.
I just cashed out my FTP roll an hour ago and cashed out my friends roll for him(since he couldnt do it himself for the same reasons people are mentioning now).
Your statement is quite confusing. Its obviously lol worse for the poker companies, but better for the players since we are not the ones being targeted.
huh it was never illegal for us to play poker. So there was never any threat of the government going after the individuals.
And for cash outs I meant just for usa people. Euro cash outs and such maybe totally fine.
So.....if a company like pokerstars or FT declares bankruptcy in the US only, (can they do that?) what does that mean in terms of the equity they hold for US players? Are they legally required to pay it out? Anyone with legal knowledge know?
1
terrybunny19240 United States. Apr 15 2011 16:35. Posts 13829
I just put a cashout request via wire transfer into PS, hopefully a wire cashout won't be "stuck in limbo".. I could definitely see how a check might end up that way.
bleh, only bank transfer available for me @ ftp. duno if I should proceed with the withdrawal or let it be.
holla, euros.
1
palak United States. Apr 15 2011 16:39. Posts 4601
@endo...no due to the charges they face the govt will seize all assets for itself (assuming that the case gets guilty verdicts across the baord)..players will lose all of their money in their accounts...By law just because u unknowingly are part of a money laundering scheme doesnt entitle you to any rights from money you had in it...there may be some instance or exception thay could be made here on some giant ignorance argument but its legal standing would be shaky at best....fwiw my entire dads side of the family are legal and corporate lawyers. Ive been trying to get ahold of my dad to ask for what is goin on. Will update with anything of note that he suggests.
dont tap the glass...im about ready to take a fucking hammer to the aquarium
thank god I cashed out my whole ftp roll 30min ago (got it instantly on mb) now cant even enter cashier withdrawal option ... and im not from US wtfff
Last edit: 15/04/2011 16:41
1
curtinsea United States. Apr 15 2011 16:40. Posts 576
On April 15 2011 15:29 Mig wrote:
huh it was never illegal for us to play poker. So there was never any threat of the government going after the individuals.
it is in the state of Washington, according to the way the law is currently interpreted. I do believe, however, that there is an argument that a player could make, which if successful would strike down that law. So far, no player has ever been charged under the law.
I cashed a check from ps on the 7th and it went through right away and is still in there, on my way to get it out now though. Not any relief for the funds still on the sites though
1
Gigabeef United Kingdom. Apr 15 2011 16:42. Posts 111
Is it best just to cash out for now?? Unsure what to do, I'm also going away tomorrow until next Thursday so do you think I should just remove my money from FTP...?
1
LikeASet United States. Apr 15 2011 16:42. Posts 2113
lol this is so horrible, time to go live, fking live swings yo
1
Surprise United States. Apr 15 2011 16:44. Posts 275
Cashed out about 90% of my roll early on in this thing, via regular check. Dunno if I should cancel the cashout and leave it in stars, where it may be safer than in a payment processor.
On April 15 2011 15:39 palak wrote:
@endo...no due to the charges they face the govt will seize all assets for itself (assuming that the case gets guilty verdicts across the baord)..players will lose all of their money in their accounts...By law just because u unknowingly are part of a money laundering scheme doesnt entitle you to any rights from money you had in it...there may be some instance or exception thay could be made here on some giant ignorance argument but its legal standing would be shaky at best....fwiw my entire dads side of the family are legal and corporate lawyers. Ive been trying to get ahold of my dad to ask for what is goin on. Will update with anything of note that he suggests.
....Oh fuck
1
terrybunny19240 United States. Apr 15 2011 16:48. Posts 13829
On April 15 2011 15:39 palak wrote:
@endo...no due to the charges they face the govt will seize all assets for itself (assuming that the case gets guilty verdicts across the baord)..players will lose all of their money in their accounts...By law just because u unknowingly are part of a money laundering scheme doesnt entitle you to any rights from money you had in it...there may be some instance or exception thay could be made here on some giant ignorance argument but its legal standing would be shaky at best....fwiw my entire dads side of the family are legal and corporate lawyers. Ive been trying to get ahold of my dad to ask for what is goin on. Will update with anything of note that he suggests.
thanks palak definitely looking for any knowledge about this situation available
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Jonoman92 United States. Apr 15 2011 16:56. Posts 280
Your statement is quite confusing. Its obviously lol worse for the poker companies, but better for the players since we are not the ones being targeted.
huh it was never illegal for us to play poker. So there was never any threat of the government going after the individuals.
And for cash outs I meant just for usa people. Euro cash outs and such maybe totally fine.
How can you say this while the UIGEA exists? Yes, if we argue semantics it only makes any transfer of money for playing poker illegal, and it actually says "internet gambling" but again, the government counts poker in with gambling so it is pretty much illegal in their eyes.
Anyone know if Cake will be affected?
edit: Also, reading the message that has taken over FTP it says that anyone who has wagered and accepted funds has violated the law.
snap approval for bank transfer from ftp just now. duno if it was the right move, though.
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YoMeR United States. Apr 15 2011 17:03. Posts 12438
On April 15 2011 15:24 asdf2000 wrote:
Get this. My buddy cashed a pokerstars check for $1500 8 days ago. It showed the $1500 as processing to be added to his account.
Yesterday the transaction was canceled, apparently.
So those of you who are cashing out in U.S.... it's prolly not gonna work.
hopefully my ftp checks i cashed 2 weeks ago will get here ;(
got 4 checks enroute supposedly
eZ Life.
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Carthac United States. Apr 15 2011 17:04. Posts 1343
Tom_Dwan I'd guess ftp/stars is worth more than 93c on the $ (almost 100% u get paid but could take 2-3mnths n worst case more)
16 minutes ago
From his twitter. Kinda reassuring but still
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milkman United States. Apr 15 2011 17:05. Posts 5719
im sorry this happened to you guys... i guess the only time i ran good in poker was when i got out lol
Its hard to make a easy buck legally, its impossible to make a easy buck morally.
On April 15 2011 15:24 asdf2000 wrote:
Get this. My buddy cashed a pokerstars check for $1500 8 days ago. It showed the $1500 as processing to be added to his account.
Yesterday the transaction was canceled, apparently.
So those of you who are cashing out in U.S.... it's prolly not gonna work.
Received a check yesterday for a grand and deposited it and it cleared in 24 hours...HOLD!!
NeillyJQ: I really wanted to prove to myself I could beat NL200, I did over a small sample, and believe Ill be crushing there in the future.
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newbie.cjb United States. Apr 15 2011 17:06. Posts 3096
my $2,000 check just bounced today -- insufficient funds?
i highly recommend people not to use via check method. Use bank wiring or something.
-cjb
my lose is a win. my wins are nothing.
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shootair United States. Apr 15 2011 17:07. Posts 430
Looks like were done US players...I got some buddies who are balling in china, thinking about moving there. PM me if any of u are interested in moving to a foreign country to continue playing
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Saturnize United States. Apr 15 2011 17:07. Posts 263
If anything traffic will explode on Cake poker... Atleast people still have places to go.
I don't really understand the foreigners outside of US cashing out. We are unaffected by this afaik, why do you guys cash out? Just panic?
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sniderstyle United States. Apr 15 2011 17:14. Posts 2046
Anxiously awaiting pokerstars official comment
Tom dwan thinks
Ps FTP money is worth 93c on the dollar
Cake 75c
Ub abs 40 45c
So that's kinda encouraging. Though he does work for ftp
Genginho: lose today 100 dollar only because of fishs they called and had luck on river
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palak United States. Apr 15 2011 17:16. Posts 4601
Talked breifly with my dad. He is going to look at the pdf and such in the next couple hrs. His initial reaction b4 he had to go was that players need to get the money off of the sites asap. For US players If cashouts are blocked then it will probably a good idea to xfer funds to foreign player accounts for the time being with the plan to withdraw those funds and see about bankwiring them or paypal moneybookers etc the money back to the us players. I dont know for sure if this is the best plan yet since he has not looked at the breif yet. Will update with what he suggests after he has looked at it.
dont tap the glass...im about ready to take a fucking hammer to the aquarium
On April 15 2011 16:12 Arirang wrote:
I don't really understand the foreigners outside of US cashing out. We are unaffected by this afaik, why do you guys cash out? Just panic?
well ftp site shows the fbi picture for me too and i cant cash out money anymore so guess good thing i "paniced" 1h ago when i still could cashout my roll and the site worked fine.
On April 15 2011 16:16 palak wrote:
Talked breifly with my dad. He is going to look at the pdf and such in the next couple hrs. His initial reaction b4 he had to go was that players need to get the money off of the sites asap. For US players If cashouts are blocked then it will probably a good idea to xfer funds to foreign player accounts for the time being with the plan to withdraw those funds and see about bankwiring them or paypal moneybookers etc the money back to the us players. I dont know for sure if this is the best plan yet since he has not looked at the breif yet. Will update with what he suggests after he has looked at it.
I assume your father is a lawyer? Well, it doesn't hurt to cash out I guess, I can always put the money back in the site. On that note, it took me literally 3sec to cashout to INSTADEBIT (a service only provided for Canadians I think). If you guys need cashing out, I think I may be able to help.
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palak United States. Apr 15 2011 17:21. Posts 4601
On April 15 2011 16:12 Arirang wrote:
I don't really understand the foreigners outside of US cashing out. We are unaffected by this afaik, why do you guys cash out? Just panic?
FBI filed requests to have all foreign accounts given over to them. So there is a chance that foreign accounts get taken too. Although there is less chance of those accounts being lost it cant hurt to take a little bit out now for foreign players as an incase shit fund til this starts to play out. Wouldnt say full withdraw is needed, but enuff to where u wont be needing to withdraw for a few months.
EDIT: yes hes a criminal prosecution lawyer for 20 yrs now.
dont tap the glass...im about ready to take a fucking hammer to the aquarium
On April 15 2011 16:12 Arirang wrote:
I don't really understand the foreigners outside of US cashing out. We are unaffected by this afaik, why do you guys cash out? Just panic?
it might not affect us but who knows right, better have money in your bank account that others.
is there a consensus that best option for US players on Stars right now is wire cashout? (im reading everything ofc but since this is potentially urgent would like if anyone could just answer this)
Truck-Crash Life
Last edit: 15/04/2011 17:33
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Surprise United States. Apr 15 2011 17:32. Posts 275
Have any usa players been able to use wire cashouts/echeck cashouts successfully? Are transfers still working?
the games you own at, end up owning you
1
zulu_nation8 United States. Apr 15 2011 17:35. Posts 1929
Just to confirm, the Merge sites are still working fine and in no danger?
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YouGoTGoT United States. Apr 15 2011 17:36. Posts 1118
I did a wire transfer got the email confirming hope I get my money
YA I TALK SHIT, GOTTA DEFECATE TO CONVERSATE
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YouGoTGoT United States. Apr 15 2011 17:36. Posts 1118
EDIT: Yep, you're right. No longer can play; not that I would even try...too sad thinking about all the people affected by this.
Last edit: 15/04/2011 18:01
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Grass.nS) United States. Apr 15 2011 17:47. Posts 400
So if you're from the US and have money on Stars, is the best move to wait and see what happens or wire the money out ASAP?
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shootair United States. Apr 15 2011 17:56. Posts 430
On April 15 2011 16:47 LMS wrote:
Umm....we can sit at PokerStars again?
I was blocked at one time, but not now.
give it up bro, were fucked
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shootair United States. Apr 15 2011 17:57. Posts 430
On April 15 2011 16:47 Grass.nS) wrote:
So if you're from the US and have money on Stars, is the best move to wait and see what happens or wire the money out ASAP?
wire the money out asap. if u can't get it off now, chances are u never will (and im a very optimistic person)
Some dude at TL.net said that re-installing PS client lets you enter the Cashier again if you couldn't.
Not sure if that's going to be helpful to anyone.
I'm guessing your most safe way to cashout is through 3rd party like services like moneybookers if you have access to it. Otherwise, it's all gamble. =_=
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ManofFire United Kingdom. Apr 15 2011 18:19. Posts 140
So let me get this straight.
1. Some payment processors don't want to be involved with Pokerstars/FTP/UB/AP due to ambiguous laws on the nature of poker.
2. These giant poker companies circumvent this by creating thousands of fake companies in order to process payments for non-existent goods that are never delivered. (Probably avoiding taxes at the same time.)
3. Bank accounts get shut down so the websites decide to bribe banks.
4. Feds find out are pissed, and seize all bank accounts.
5. People whine that America is corrupt.
6. ???
Umm, seriously this would be so much easier if gambling was just legalized TT.
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Venrae United States. Apr 15 2011 18:19. Posts 1545
I think safest is get a friend outside of us, transfer funds to them, have them cashout and then send you a check for it?
Right?
Learn to appreciate the value of the dollar. The rest is easy. (Hurricane @ TL)
ok so i still have the option to cancel my wire cashout:
if i were to do this, is there any kind of time penalty for cashing out afterwards with stars? like would i have to wait 48 hrs or whatever to re-cashout using echeck or i can still do it immediately?
ShLiM United Kingdom. Apr 15 2011 18:28. Posts 940
On April 15 2011 17:19 Venrae wrote:
I think safest is get a friend outside of us, transfer funds to them, have them cashout and then send you a check for it?
Right?
this could be nice option, if player transfers wasn't blocked as well
Seat 5: patatino showed [Qd 2d] and won ($609,730) with a pair of Twos
also:
I was able to cashout 1k about 1 hour ago.Should i cashout rest of them?wtf is going on?....also should i convert 190k fpps to $ right now?Damn so confused
is this a joke? they cannot ever take our money on some law. this is stealing and we have to get our money back 100%. USA is not my boss wtf are you thinking
wow do I really have to cashout my whole roll eventhough im in canada? should I spend all my FPPs???
I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -Oly
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Xervean United States. Apr 15 2011 18:40. Posts 682
On April 15 2011 17:07 Ket wrote:
land of the free
I thought the revolutionary war was supposed to give us more freedom... Now the British are free and we live in tyranny. What a horrible irony... I may need one of your rental properties Ket <3
Exhilarate United States. Apr 15 2011 18:42. Posts 5453
On April 15 2011 17:19 ManofFire wrote:
So let me get this straight.
1. Some payment processors don't want to be involved with Pokerstars/FTP/UB/AP due to ambiguous laws on the nature of poker.
2. These giant poker companies circumvent this by creating thousands of fake companies in order to process payments for non-existent goods that are never delivered. (Probably avoiding taxes at the same time.)
3. Bank accounts get shut down so the websites decide to bribe banks.
4. Feds find out are pissed, and seize all bank accounts.
5. People whine that America is corrupt.
6. ???
Umm, seriously this would be so much easier if gambling was just legalized TT.
Surprise United States. Apr 15 2011 18:47. Posts 275
I doubt anyone internationally will lose their money, usa govt can't just take money from them when they were doing something legal. This would set off a firestorm of diplomacy. However, the usa govt now controls the bank accounts with player deposits in them, and will probably freeze them for awhile. International players will get their money back, but it may take awhile for this all to unravel. The real question is if, and when usa players may see their rolls.
the games you own at, end up owning you
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Exhilarate United States. Apr 15 2011 18:50. Posts 5453
On April 15 2011 17:37 gororokgororok wrote:
IF YOU CAN, CASH OUT
i think cashing out is the worst possible thing to do right now as there are probably no payment processors available
i don't even think our funds are readily available
if you go to the second document, there's about $40-50 mil frozen in a bunch of accounts, god knows how much more are in the rest of the bank accounts where they didn't state the #s for them
On April 15 2011 17:19 ManofFire wrote:
So let me get this straight.
1. Some payment processors don't want to be involved with Pokerstars/FTP/UB/AP due to ambiguous laws on the nature of poker.
2. These giant poker companies circumvent this by creating thousands of fake companies in order to process payments for non-existent goods that are never delivered. (Probably avoiding taxes at the same time.)
3. Bank accounts get shut down so the websites decide to bribe banks.
4. Feds find out are pissed, and seize all bank accounts.
5. People whine that America is corrupt.
6. ???
Umm, seriously this would be so much easier if gambling was just legalized TT.
this is pretty much it
So, I read that pokerstars was taking payments from U.S. citizens. Is this actually the case? If so, how? And from who? I don't understand.
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
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Exhilarate United States. Apr 15 2011 18:55. Posts 5453
^ they were taking deposits from US players, and the US players would be getting confused, getting e-mail replies from fake company names such as "PS3shop" or "mygolflocation.com", which were set up as fronts for Pokerstars, etc
Last edit: 15/04/2011 18:57
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traxamillion United States. Apr 15 2011 18:55. Posts 10468
"we are sorry but, due to government regulations, playing real money ring games is not allowed in your area."
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asdf2000 United States. Apr 15 2011 18:55. Posts 7708
from the DOJ press release
For example, defendants ISAI SCHEINBERG and PAUL TATE of
PokerStars, RAYMOND BITAR and NELSON BURTNICK of Full Tilt Poker,
and SCOTT TOM and BRENT BECKLEY of Absolute Poker, arranged for
the money received from U.S. gamblers to be disguised as payments
to hundreds of non-existent online merchants purporting to sell
merchandise such as jewelry and golf balls. Of the billions of
dollars in payment transactions that the Poker Companies tricked
U.S. banks into processing, approximately one-third or more of
the funds went directly to the Poker Companies as revenue through
the "rake"
how???
I thought U.S. citizens couldn't deposit on pokerstars. So who and how?
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
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asdf2000 United States. Apr 15 2011 18:57. Posts 7708
On April 15 2011 17:55 Exhilarate wrote:
^ they were taking deposits from US players, and the US players would be getting confused, getting e-mail replies from fake company names such as "PS3shop" or "mygolflocation.com", which were set up as fronts for Pokerstars, etc
but I thought there wasn't even an option to deposit... ?
that sounds ridiculous how could pokerstars think they could get away with that?
Grindin so hard, Im smashin pussies left and right.
1
blackjacki2 United States. Apr 15 2011 18:57. Posts 2582
On April 15 2011 13:53 Manit0u wrote:
Hmm... US government trying to fix their debt or something?
60 minutes recently did a piece about how states are turning to gambling to help fix their budget deficits. I guess they want to take out the competition now..
On April 15 2011 17:55 Exhilarate wrote:
^ they were taking deposits from US players, and the US players would be getting confused, getting e-mail replies from fake company names such as "PS3shop" or "mygolflocation.com", which were set up as fronts for Pokerstars, etc
but I thought there wasn't even an option to deposit... ?
that sounds ridiculous how could pokerstars think they could get away with that?
I guess that's how they've been doing it for the past 5 years, and now it caught up to them
They would make these websites as a front, and accept deposits, and to get around the internet gambling merchant code
and yeah, I thought there wasn't even an option for US players to deposit anymore, maybe people who have deposited recently can offer some insight
i canceled my wire withdrawl hope im not being retarded
Truck-Crash Life
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traxamillion United States. Apr 15 2011 19:10. Posts 10468
On April 15 2011 17:58 casinocasino wrote:
all i can say is the panic is certainly goign to make for great action in the next few days
must be nice to get in on it.
all is see in the stars lobbies right now are euro fish. everyone
1
traxamillion United States. Apr 15 2011 19:13. Posts 10468
only way i could be happy if in the end zynga poker becomes legalized real money poker with decent rake and stars refunds everyone. (wishful thinking to get through today)
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goose58 United States. Apr 15 2011 19:13. Posts 871
Im worried about this possible "closure within 48 hours". I have 5.5k in limbo from ABS to Moneybookers and usually it takes at least a day or two to appear. How has everyone else cashed out though ABS/UB?
everyone needs to make a moneybookers account ASAP get the money in there, its safe fast, and reliable
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light not our darkness that most frightens us and as we let our own lights shine we unconsciously give other people permision to do the same
On April 15 2011 17:07 Ket wrote:
land of the free
american politics are so fked up, im glad i live in the commonwealth
Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light not our darkness that most frightens us and as we let our own lights shine we unconsciously give other people permision to do the same
i am attempting to cash out a lot from stars/ftp and intending to leave 1700 on ftp just to play some rush if we can still play after sunday. who knows if it will go through. still have 30k in tournament dollars and i have absolutely no clue what im doing with that. not even gonna attempt cashing out my 4k from absolute cause i know that will be a complete fail.
NewbSaibot: 18 TIMES THE SPEED OF LIGHT. Because FUCK YOU, Daut
Last edit: 15/04/2011 19:27
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blackjacki2 United States. Apr 15 2011 19:28. Posts 2582
On April 15 2011 18:23 Newblish wrote:
Im worried about this possible "closure within 48 hours". I have 5.5k in limbo from ABS to Moneybookers and usually it takes at least a day or two to appear. How has everyone else cashed out though ABS/UB?
They might be talking about the domain names. A lot of people still see the websites as working fine and it's been said that some ISPs take a while to change DNS(?) or whatever and they should appear as closed for everyone within 48 hours.
On April 15 2011 18:27 Daut wrote:
i am attempting to cash out a lot from stars/ftp and intending to leave 1700 on ftp just to play some rush if we can still play after sunday. who knows if it will go through. still have 30k in tournament dollars and i have absolutely no clue what im doing with that. not even gonna attempt cashing out my 4k from absolute cause i know that will be a complete fail.
Seriously? I just cashed out 5.5k from ABS and its in processing. Whats the alternative for ABS? Likewise - What happens to people like me who have already cashed out? Is our money going to just vanish..?
"We are unable to process a cashout to this account. For further assistance please contact our Security Team..."
cant cashout using MB, should I cashout by check??
I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -Oly
1
Into Infinity United States. Apr 15 2011 19:32. Posts 1884
cashed out by check but i'm scared it'll bounce. thinking about canceling it and keeping the money in my accounts. can't wire because i already have one being processed (still).
this sucks, i hope all the LP high stakes ballers get their money safely
On April 15 2011 18:39 johnmagi wrote:
I think the reason is because FBI have frozen the accounts used for deposits/cashout.
So I dont think you get your money even if you try to use check.
I honestly think its too late now, we can only hope that people outside the US will get their money back
GG
If you're talking about moneybookers, i think its more likely that the pokerstars moneybooker account is overwhelmed by the amount of cashout requests i.e. tapped. Who says pokerstars moneybookers account has a bottomless line of credit with which they can process withdrawals? It could have simply ran out of money to process more moneybookers withdrawals.
if poker is dangerous to them i would rank sports betting as a Kodiak grizzly bear who smells blood after you just threw a javelin into his cub - RaiNKhAN
tried to test cashing out some money, nothing works after i choose the cash out ammount so nope, nobody can cash out anymore it seems, and it sounds logical as massive cash outs were probably going to crash them.
Guess its time to cross fingers and pray... I hope non-american players can still get our money and/or be unaffected by this and can still play on one of these sites.
-Karla:Mira, tu película! -Yo: cuál? -Karla: Big Fish! jaja
Dont you have some inside info mr baaaal? You beeing a Pstar pro and everything.
Will you still get your paycheck? How is your life changing due to this?
On April 15 2011 18:47 Baal wrote:
tried to test cashing out some money, nothing works after i choose the cash out ammount so nope, nobody can cash out anymore it seems, and it sounds logical as massive cash outs were probably going to crash them.
i just cashed out sucessfully
then she ask me my qualities n bad qualities. so i tell her truth and she kinda laugh at me lol. then i ask her for hers and she gtg. i think it going ok. -Floofy
On April 15 2011 18:47 Baal wrote:
tried to test cashing out some money, nothing works after i choose the cash out ammount so nope, nobody can cash out anymore it seems, and it sounds logical as massive cash outs were probably going to crash them.
i just cashed out sucessfully
really? what cashout method did u use? i only have the check option available to me and im afraid to use it
I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -Oly
3
PuertoRican United States. Apr 15 2011 20:02. Posts 13226
im more concerned what to do next than losing my roll now stupid since i already withdrew and they blocked it the other day coz they needed valid documents and i had no proof of billing at the time so i decided to keep playing and postpone br withdrawal ROFL.
time to lag it up at plo 1knl then hahaha
Last edit: 15/04/2011 20:04
0
Gnarly United States. Apr 15 2011 20:07. Posts 1723
Best +EV decision that can be made is to invest in the other rooms that haven't been targeted. Their stocks are going to SKYROCKET.
they finally approve my cashout but i leave 500 still on my account, am i an idiot for doing this?
on the other hand regs and grinders will try to avoid these sites so i think games will be insanely soft after this.
On April 15 2011 19:13 whamm! wrote:
they finally approve my cashout but i leave 500 still on my account, am i an idiot for doing this?
on the other hand regs and grinders will try to avoid these sites so i think games will be insanely soft after this.
AND on the third hand, everyone will think like you, so then we are back to normal
damn I hope this all turns out to be okay or eles im gonna have to move in with my parents and regrind at the micro stakes rofl
I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -Oly
Last edit: 15/04/2011 20:30
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ahole-surprise United States. Apr 15 2011 20:22. Posts 78
it took a while, i had a nap, woke up, and the gravity of the situation really sunk in. i'm just a microstakes player who started out late last year, but for those of you with livelihoods out there, my best wishes go out to you.
On April 15 2011 19:13 whamm! wrote:
they finally approve my cashout but i leave 500 still on my account, am i an idiot for doing this? on the other hand regs and grinders will try to avoid these sites so i think games will be insanely soft after this.
any1 from germany able to cash out on fulltilt/stars? neither works for me atm
1
egood United States. Apr 15 2011 20:48. Posts 1883
Well looks like I missed the boat to cash out.. as it just says "We can't establish a secure connection blah blah". Worst comes to worst, I'll transfer the money to my UK friend and hopefully he can ship me some moneys on paypal.
On April 15 2011 19:48 egood wrote:
Well looks like I missed the boat to cash out.. as it just says "We can't establish a secure connection blah blah". Worst comes to worst, I'll transfer the money to my UK friend and hopefully he can ship me some moneys on paypal.
i guess this is ftp?
i got that for a while
then it worked somes hours later
Is the player-to-player transfer option still functioning? Have any of you transferred $ to friends since this all began?
1
egood United States. Apr 15 2011 20:54. Posts 1883
On April 15 2011 19:52 Raid wrote:
Is the player-to-player transfer option still functioning? Have any of you transferred $ to friends since this all began?
Just tried transferring and am getting the "Can't connect to secure network.." So no, not right now.. I'm on FTP btw.
1
blackjacki2 United States. Apr 15 2011 20:56. Posts 2582
Should we blow our FTP and VIP points on crap we don't need before it gets sold out?
in other news, twoplustwo is probably being page request bombed to death by anxious 2p2 stars players as it is currently down no clue what's going to happen next and pokerstars steve is probably packing his bags atm
my withdrawal is currently under review atm, if i get a good explanation/reassurance from the site i wont be withdrawing more than i need, i think its best to just remain calm since we are already past being fucked and mass withdrawals will probably make matters worse.
On April 15 2011 20:25 Nazgul wrote:
Does anybody know for fact pokersites invest their stored money?
If not then how can it be similar to a bank run?
i think banks also have invested a % of their stored money (deposits from clients). but the point is if the people start to panic, the effect would be the same as a bank run... taking the site down.
and i think if this goes on for weeks in the media, it can happen.
according to the above document, 32 US bank accounts tied to the poker sites and 45 foreign bank accounts, which include accounts in Cyprus, Hong Kong, Philippines, Canada, England, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Panama, Malta, Ireland, Germany and the Channel Islands have already been seized by the US gov't.
the forfeiture section starts on page 49 and basically the US gov't is claiming they are owed $2 billion for "count eight" and $2.5 billion for "count nine".
The only way we will see our money is if
1 - the US govt decides to pay customer balances before taking their $2 billion and $2.5 billion claims
or
2 - these bank accounts represent only a small fraction of the poker sites capital AND they can remain solvent and maintain their non-US business AND they can find a way to get the money in the hands of US customers without being detected by the US gov't
imo, both scenarios are long shots. although I'm hopeful, I think its unlikely that US residents will ever see a cent from their PS/FTP/AP bankrolls. Considering the fact that this threatens the solvency of these companies, the bankrolls of even non-US customers is also in jeopardy. While we can only wait and hope for the best, I think it's prudent that everyone plans for the worst.
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blackjacki2 United States. Apr 15 2011 22:09. Posts 2582
bank runs are less effective when you can't actually cashout
according to the above document, 32 US bank accounts tied to the poker sites and 45 foreign bank accounts, which include accounts in Cyprus, Hong Kong, Philippines, Canada, England, Luxembourg, Switzerland, Panama, Malta, Ireland, Germany and the Channel Islands have already been seized by the US gov't.
the forfeiture section starts on page 49 and basically the US gov't is claiming they are owed $2 billion for "count eight" and $2.5 billion for "count nine".
The only way we will see our money is if
1 - the US govt decides to pay customer balances before taking their $2 billion and $2.5 billion claims
or
2 - these bank accounts represent only a small fraction of the poker sites capital AND they can remain solvent and maintain their non-US business AND they can find a way to get the money in the hands of US customers without being detected by the US gov't
imo, both scenarios are long shots. although I'm hopeful, I think its unlikely that US residents will ever see a cent from their PS/FTP/AP bankrolls. Considering the fact that this threatens the solvency of these companies, the bankrolls of even non-US customers is also in jeopardy. While we can only wait and hope for the best, I think it's prudent that everyone plans for the worst.
but this isnt actual ps money right? just some accs for tranfers?
hard to believe ps did not see this coming and not have some plan b in place. im usually very paranoid about these things but for some reason im not too worried about this if i hear a press release from stars reps - they haven't yet and that worries me a lot now above everything else
Thank you for your email. We appreciate your concern.
PokerStars is owned and operated by a legal entity licensed and located in the Isle Of Man (a crown dependency of the United Kingdom) and we pride ourselves in abiding by all relevant laws and regulations. The current situation about which you have inquired only impacts US Players.
PokerStars will continue to offer its services to all other jurisdictions. As we are not a law firm, it is difficult for us to advise our customers as to the legal situation in every jurisdiction, however the recent change is not targeted in any way at your jurisdiction.
Most importantly, rest assured your funds are safe with PokerStars and will be accessible to you whenever you may wish to withdraw.
We will keep all of our players up-to-date with any future developments.
We sincerely appreciate your understanding and concern, and thank you for choosing PokerStars.
Regards,
Hogan
PokerStars Support Team
from 2p2, std support bs
ban baal
1
goose58 United States. Apr 15 2011 22:40. Posts 871
Will an admin from this site answer my question? Is LP still paying its rakeback for US players, specifically for AP/UB?
1
ManofFire United Kingdom. Apr 15 2011 22:43. Posts 140
Thank you for your email. We appreciate your concern.
PokerStars is owned and operated by a legal entity licensed and located in the Isle Of Man (a crown dependency of the United Kingdom) and we pride ourselves in abiding by all relevant laws and regulations. The current situation about which you have inquired only impacts US Players.
PokerStars will continue to offer its services to all other jurisdictions. As we are not a law firm, it is difficult for us to advise our customers as to the legal situation in every jurisdiction, however the recent change is not targeted in any way at your jurisdiction.
Most importantly, rest assured your funds are safe with PokerStars and will be accessible to you whenever you may wish to withdraw.
We will keep all of our players up-to-date with any future developments.
We sincerely appreciate your understanding and concern, and thank you for choosing PokerStars.
Regards,
Hogan
PokerStars Support Team
from 2p2, std support bs
lol.
At least they are giving a response
1
NewbSaibot United States. Apr 15 2011 22:43. Posts 4948
Dont forget guys, internet poker is a ridiculously profitable business. The big 3 have made spent tremendous resources and cut into their bottom line to continue their business, aint no way they are just going to throw away a multi-billion dollar industry down the toilet to a few annoying "laws". They'll find a way to keep players playing, even if it means financing transactions through more expensive measures again.
On April 15 2011 21:43 NewbSaibot wrote:
Dont forget guys, internet poker is a ridiculously profitable business. The big 3 have made spent tremendous resources and cut into their bottom line to continue their business, aint no way they are just going to throw away a multi-billion dollar industry down the toilet to a few annoying "laws". They'll find a way to keep players playing, even if it means financing transactions through more expensive measures again.
sure but how much did they lose?
ban baal
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TenBagger United States. Apr 15 2011 22:50. Posts 2018
On April 15 2011 21:43 NewbSaibot wrote:
aint no way they are just going to throw away a multi-billion dollar industry down the toilet to a few annoying "laws".
nearly 100 seized bank accounts across the globe, even in known financial havens such as switzerland and panama and you call it just a few annoying laws?
I posted the primary source, people should take a few minutes to read it rather than making baseless assumptions.
On April 15 2011 21:43 NewbSaibot wrote:
aint no way they are just going to throw away a multi-billion dollar industry down the toilet to a few annoying "laws".
nearly 100 seized bank accounts across the globe, even in known financial havens such as switzerland and panama and you call it just a few annoying laws?
I posted the primary source, people should take a few minutes to read it rather than making baseless assumptions.
On April 15 2011 21:43 NewbSaibot wrote:
aint no way they are just going to throw away a multi-billion dollar industry down the toilet to a few annoying "laws".
nearly 100 seized bank accounts across the globe, even in known financial havens such as switzerland and panama and you call it just a few annoying laws?
I posted the primary source, people should take a few minutes to read it rather than making baseless assumptions.
lets be optimistic ok?
it's not about being optimistic or pessimistic. It's about being informed or ignorant. A major issue like this comes up and there is a primary source, the actual gov't indictment report that has a wealth of information. It just amazes me how so many people neglect to read the primary source, not just in this situation but in general.
On April 15 2011 21:10 whamm! wrote:
i guess that settles it then, take your shots today imo. nothing worse can happen
oh god someone delete this before Neilly sees it
Lol'd
Obama didn't change shit just said the right things and as usual the public is dumb enough to buy into all of it he tapped into their emotions. Ron Paul ftw
On April 15 2011 21:31 whamm! wrote:
hard to believe ps did not see this coming and not have some plan b in place. im usually very paranoid about these things but for some reason im not too worried about this if i hear a press release from stars reps - they haven't yet and that worries me a lot now above everything else
with only 500 bucks online... who would be? lol
imagine if it was all your BR online.
0
NeillyJQ United States. Apr 15 2011 23:03. Posts 8947
meh..........
won one of my last 2 mtts up tonight, atleast go out w/ a lil bang
Just remember you need to be god damn sure about their tendencies. -Artanis11 http://www.pocketfives.com/profiles/neillyaa/
On April 15 2011 21:31 whamm! wrote:
hard to believe ps did not see this coming and not have some plan b in place. im usually very paranoid about these things but for some reason im not too worried about this if i hear a press release from stars reps - they haven't yet and that worries me a lot now above everything else
with only 500 bucks online... who would be? lol
imagine if it was all your BR online.
well technically my withdrawal now has not cleared and im not confident at all it will clear since the last time it was rejected. so yeah, technically i have zero to my name and that was everything i had lol
People chill the fuck out, the bussiness potential for Pokerstars outside the USA is very big, its way more than the total sum of our accounts.
So in the worst case where PS needs to pay billions, they would probably get investors to continue operating outisde the united stats, and that only can be done if they respect our bankrolls (and probably american ones too), so chill out, a company this big doesnt just dissapear especially when it has so much potential, if it has serios issues they are just bought
On April 15 2011 21:09 blackjacki2 wrote:
bank runs are less effective when you can't actually cashout
then it's much easier for the FBI/US govt. to freeze all the money in your accounts. think about it. it's not stopping today. this will go on for months/years until they get what they want.
new pop-up on Pokerstars client, assuring that bussiness for people ouside USA is fine, they changed site to www.pokerstars.eu, that all our bankrolls are safe.
everyone should read tenbaggers post and think about it before posting.
i don't really see how all the bankrolls are not vanished. it's a little delusional imo to think that PS has 10bil sitting in dubai/singapore/wherever or that the US govt is gonna ship everyone their bankrolls back.
On April 15 2011 22:11 Mortensen8 wrote:
that's why I like stars nothing from full tilt yet
Statement from Full Tilt Poker Regarding Recent Check Withdrawal Issues
In light of recent events involving the freezing of certain accounts,
Full Tilt Poker would like to assure all players that their funds remain safe and secure. Processing of both deposit and withdrawal requests is proceeding as normal and is still available to all of our players.
All players who were affected by the current situation have had their funds returned to their accounts and all new withdrawal requests are processing normally. We assure all players on Full Tilt Poker that your online playing experience will not change and that you will be able to both deposit and withdraw funds as needed. Your money remains safe, secure and accessible at all times.
Full Tilt Poker remains committed to the protection of our players’ security and legal rights, and will continue to provide the best and safest online poker room available worldwide
At first while thinking about this, I thought it was shitty as fuck that no americans will be able to play on the site anymore.. then I got thinking - don't you think a large number of the tag regs/vpp hounds are from the US?
Maybe PS will become the new party poker for non-US players. I literally had my mouse hovering over cashout (and also noticed how the CDN $ is worth 4 cents more on the dollar atm... i miss my "bonus" from cashing out like the good old days) and then thought of this.
Think this could possibly be a good thing for non-US players?
Last edit: 15/04/2011 23:15
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Jubert69 United States. Apr 15 2011 23:16. Posts 3191
Sigh of relief so far. Although I didn't think of PS/FTP going down, I mean look at PP, after the US left, they still pulled a pretty penny.
"As you may have heard, we have had to suspend real money poker sercies to people based in the US due to legal developments there. These developments are confined to the US and do not have any impact on your ability to continue using our services.
Please be assured player balances are safe, There is no cause for concern. For all customers outside the US it is business as usual.
The PokerStars website has been moved to www.pokerstars.eu, and our Support email address is now support@pokerstars.eu. We apologise to our players for any inconvenience caused by this disruption.
Please be aware that we are currently experiencing a very high volume of emails, so our response times are delayed. We will answer players emails as soon as possible. Thank you for your patience and understanding in this matter."
I dont know what a dt drop is. Is it a wrestling move? -Oly
1
blackjacki2 United States. Apr 15 2011 23:16. Posts 2582
On April 15 2011 22:11 Mortensen8 wrote:
that's why I like stars nothing from full tilt yet
Statement from Full Tilt Poker Regarding Recent Check Withdrawal Issues
In light of recent events involving the freezing of certain accounts,
Full Tilt Poker would like to assure all players that their funds remain safe and secure. Processing of both deposit and withdrawal requests is proceeding as normal and is still available to all of our players.
All players who were affected by the current situation have had their funds returned to their accounts and all new withdrawal requests are processing normally. We assure all players on Full Tilt Poker that your online playing experience will not change and that you will be able to both deposit and withdraw funds as needed. Your money remains safe, secure and accessible at all times.
Full Tilt Poker remains committed to the protection of our players’ security and legal rights, and will continue to provide the best and safest online poker room available worldwide
wtf, Did they just say "fuck you doj, we're going to continue with business as usual"?
On April 15 2011 22:14 RiKD wrote:
everyone should read tenbaggers post and think about it before posting.
i don't really see how all the bankrolls are not vanished. it's a little delusional imo to think that PS has 10bil sitting in dubai/singapore/wherever or that the US govt is gonna ship everyone their bankrolls back.
is there any precedence in the latter happening?
is there any proof that ALL the funds were sized? is there any proof the BRs are vanished? no so why assuming random shit, its just as stupid as assuming they have billions in untouchable accounts.
What is sure is that Pokerstars is a big big company with a lot of profitability potential, even if it suffers a huge this time investors can take over so chill the fuck out.
Originally Posted by excession View Post
OK so I'm a UK lawyer with some knowledge of IOM law (I got involved in some quite heavy timeshare litigation there in the 90's).
PS spend a lot of money on city of London lawyers who advise them on gaming regulation compliance.
They are licensed by the IOM Gaming Commission which is pretty legit and has some pretty strong customer protection regs.
Most notable are the Online Gambling Participants' Money Regs 2010
These provide that all customer money has to be kept in a segregated bank account and is deemed to be held in trust.
The concept of trust monies is very important under UK Insolvency Law as monies held in trust fall outside the estate of a bankrupt individual or insolvent corporate entity and the liquidator can't get his hands on them.
Also as they are not the site's monies judicial orders purporting to seize the site's monies won't affect them.
I suppose the US government can effectively stop payments out to the US player base by banning the banks within their jurisdiction from handling such payments, but I am really struggling to see how they can realistically stop payments out to non-US players of what is legally their money in anything other than the very short term panic that might cause banks holding such funds to freeze funds whilst they go get an order from an IOM or UK court to clarify what they should do with them.
If PS are governed by the Regs and if they have complied then they SHOULD be no issue in non-US players getting money back out of PS in fairly short order.
FT is governed by Channel Island regs which will be similar.
I cashed out via direct bank transfer from PS. With all those bank accounts seized can i expect my money or should i cancel transfer or something? Half my roll is at FTP so i guess thats fucked. I just hope i can get the other half from PS.
Finally a response from a stars rep - i can sleep better now
On April 15 2011 22:08 Baal wrote:
People chill the fuck out, the bussiness potential for Pokerstars outside the USA is very big, its way more than the total sum of our accounts.
So in the worst case where PS needs to pay billions, they would probably get investors to continue operating outisde the united stats, and that only can be done if they respect our bankrolls (and probably american ones too), so chill out, a company this big doesnt just dissapear especially when it has so much potential, if it has serios issues they are just bought
On April 15 2011 22:14 RiKD wrote:
everyone should read tenbaggers post and think about it before posting.
i don't really see how all the bankrolls are not vanished. it's a little delusional imo to think that PS has 10bil sitting in dubai/singapore/wherever or that the US govt is gonna ship everyone their bankrolls back.
is there any precedence in the latter happening?
is there any proof that ALL the funds were sized? is there any proof the BRs are vanished? no so why assuming random shit, its just as stupid as assuming they have billions in untouchable accounts.
What is sure is that Pokerstars is a big big company with a lot of profitability potential, even if it suffers a huge this time investors can take over so chill the fuck out.
Last edit: 15/04/2011 23:25
1
qwerty67890 New Zealand. Apr 15 2011 23:24. Posts 14026
1
Maynard! United States. Apr 15 2011 23:26. Posts 4453
On April 15 2011 22:11 Mortensen8 wrote:
that's why I like stars nothing from full tilt yet
Statement from Full Tilt Poker Regarding Recent Check Withdrawal Issues
In light of recent events involving the freezing of certain accounts,
Full Tilt Poker would like to assure all players that their funds remain safe and secure. Processing of both deposit and withdrawal requests is proceeding as normal and is still available to all of our players.
All players who were affected by the current situation have had their funds returned to their accounts and all new withdrawal requests are processing normally. We assure all players on Full Tilt Poker that your online playing experience will not change and that you will be able to both deposit and withdraw funds as needed. Your money remains safe, secure and accessible at all times.
Full Tilt Poker remains committed to the protection of our players’ security and legal rights, and will continue to provide the best and safest online poker room available worldwide
On April 15 2011 22:08 Baal wrote:
People chill the fuck out, the bussiness potential for Pokerstars outside the USA is very big, its way more than the total sum of our accounts.
So in the worst case where PS needs to pay billions, they would probably get investors to continue operating outisde the united stats, and that only can be done if they respect our bankrolls (and probably american ones too), so chill out, a company this big doesnt just dissapear especially when it has so much potential, if it has serios issues they are just bought
On April 15 2011 22:20 Baal wrote:
On April 15 2011 22:14 RiKD wrote:
everyone should read tenbaggers post and think about it before posting.
i don't really see how all the bankrolls are not vanished. it's a little delusional imo to think that PS has 10bil sitting in dubai/singapore/wherever or that the US govt is gonna ship everyone their bankrolls back.
is there any precedence in the latter happening?
is there any proof that ALL the funds were sized? is there any proof the BRs are vanished? no so why assuming random shit, its just as stupid as assuming they have billions in untouchable accounts.
What is sure is that Pokerstars is a big big company with a lot of profitability potential, even if it suffers a huge this time investors can take over so chill the fuck out.
don't believe what ever you watch/read on the news in the next few weeks. this is gonna get worse for a while. but i think in the long term everything is gonna be ok.
1
Zalfor United States. Apr 15 2011 23:34. Posts 2236
[QUOTE=PokerStars Steve;26060880]As you may have heard, PokerStars has had to suspend real money poker services to people based in the US due to legal developments there. These developments are confined to the US and do not have any impact on the ability of players outside the US to continue using PokerStars services.
Please be assured player balances are safe. There is no cause for concern about loss of funds in your PokerStars account. For all customers outside the US it is business as usual.
The PokerStars website has been moved to [url]www.pokerstars.eu[/url], and the PokerStars Support email address is now [email]support@pokerstars.eu[/email]. PokerStars apologises to all players for any inconvenience caused by this disruption.
Please be aware that PokerStars Support is currently experiencing a very high volume of emails, so response times are delayed. Player emails will be answered as quickly as possible.
It is understood that many players, especially those from the US, may have additional questions or concerns about these changes, account status, and cashouts. The information above is all the information available at this time. PokerStars management and legal team continues to review the situation and will provide additional information it becomes available.
As there is no additional information available to pass on, I will not be answering follow-up questions at this time. Thank you for your patience and understanding in this matter.[/QUOTE]
NewbSaibot United States. Apr 15 2011 23:59. Posts 4948
I guess maybe this could all be a good thing, as it will force an official vote through legislation now, and once and for all poker can finally be defined as gambling or not.
Zalfor United States. Apr 16 2011 00:16. Posts 2236
my withdrawal from FTP got declined. T_T
1
Klogon United States. Apr 16 2011 00:26. Posts 158
On April 15 2011 22:08 Baal wrote:
People chill the fuck out, the bussiness potential for Pokerstars outside the USA is very big, its way more than the total sum of our accounts.
So in the worst case where PS needs to pay billions, they would probably get investors to continue operating outisde the united stats, and that only can be done if they respect our bankrolls (and probably american ones too), so chill out, a company this big doesnt just dissapear especially when it has so much potential, if it has serios issues they are just bought
Well, considering Bear Sterns and Lehman Brothers, two giants of wall street worth well more than any of these poker sites, went bust two years ago, I'd say anything is possible. After all, they weren't called "to big to fail" for no reason.
1
YouGoTGoT United States. Apr 16 2011 00:33. Posts 1118
Im hoping the sites will return US players monies in order to uphold their reputation globally and continue business for the rest of the world. Obv other countries will not feel safe playing on these sites if they see US players robbed of their money.
On April 15 2011 22:08 Baal wrote:
People chill the fuck out, the bussiness potential for Pokerstars outside the USA is very big, its way more than the total sum of our accounts.
So in the worst case where PS needs to pay billions, they would probably get investors to continue operating outisde the united stats, and that only can be done if they respect our bankrolls (and probably american ones too), so chill out, a company this big doesnt just dissapear especially when it has so much potential, if it has serios issues they are just bought
Well, considering Bear Sterns and Lehman Brothers, two giants of wall street worth well more than any of these poker sites, went bust two years ago, I'd say anything is possible. After all, they weren't called "to big to fail" for no reason.
true... but i'm sure some other company will take over if pokerstars goes bust or something.
on the other hand who will take over since these sites are indicted.
in the long run tho, everything will be ok. but maybe some frozen accounts/lost money here and there like in microgaming.
1
GoodNewsJim United States. Apr 16 2011 00:34. Posts 13
As much as I enjoyed grinding, I went on some pretty bad streaks losing 30/35 hands where I'm racing or ahead. This happened to me 3 times. Still, I was up over 1000x what I bought into Pokerstars. I wanted to see if I could get 1,000,000 times my initial buyin, but I guess that won't happen. I guess I gotta play live now if I want to play, but I really really hate casinos. There is a spirit of greed in those places and the people seem to be focused on money more than your average person. Also if there is one drunken idiot talking all sorts of racist stuff, there is no way to put him on /ignore like online poker. So I'm not sure if I can handle a casino yet. I'll miss Pokerstars.
On April 15 2011 23:50 whamm! wrote:
best thing to do would be to "isildur" my br today. split roll across several PLO tables you cant afford to play.
nope, dont. just relax and play the site this coming week. i think it is gonna be really soft. use aggro BR management... maybe 25 - 30bi then move up. not that aggro but still enough to make you move up quick.
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LikeASet United States. Apr 16 2011 01:07. Posts 2113
Ok guys, if we cannot play on stars, ftp anytime soon, what would be a good alternative (such as UltimateBet or whatever)? FTP can go to hell for all I care, they wouldn't let me make a rakeback account bua ha ha ha ha ha
Last edit: 16/04/2011 01:08
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NMcNasty United States. Apr 16 2011 01:08. Posts 2041
What about - opening a foreign bank account and transferring funds from there to your us bank, you could even say it's gambling winnings, it's not illegal in other countries.
Or dunno if they still do this but I saw at the pca one year u could exchange account dollars for cash and vice versa.
I feel like the money in pokerstars accounts isn't representative of money in specific us bank accounts and therefore can't be seized or frozen, cashing out in another country and just moving it back to the us should be legal although it's a major hassle.
sucks but people will have to leave the U.S. to play until this gets sorted out, VPN is an option but i think that's very risky and directly involves you in the wrongdoing by doing the circumventing yourself knowing you are breaking the law and is obviously malicious.
1
thumbz555 United States. Apr 16 2011 01:15. Posts 3281
play money tables about to get real tough
I click buttons.
1
Maynard! United States. Apr 16 2011 01:16. Posts 4453
You're not breaking the law i think. You're breaking their policy. From what I know UIEGA is vs the sites and deposits only. We're safe.. as long as we pay taxes and thank god that I made that decision to pay them.
i think we should change the title to domain seizure and not poker site, since one can have 1 million domains, just like with demonoid and torrent sites switching domains after getting theirs seized as well,. theres a huge difference and i think the title only adds to the panic lol
If we didn't already know that certainly tells us how real and significant this situation is now with a major player backing out. It'll be interesting to see what happens to the games, the site, and the legislation in the coming weeks. The most interesting thing is that this opens the market previously dominated by PS and FTP to a new site brought in with proper legislation. That could change everything.
Sorry dude he Jason Bourned me. -Johnny Drama
1
Carthac United States. Apr 16 2011 01:40. Posts 1343
Maynard try again, I was able to update FTP finally
However, I am unable to xfer money or withdraw
1
RaiNKhAN United States. Apr 16 2011 01:41. Posts 4080
wtf theres a phone # on there and it doesnt work, fuck
The biggest Rockets, Sixers, and Grizzlies fan you will ever meet!
On April 16 2011 00:53 zodion wrote:
finally was able to cashout on stars, still no luck on fulltilt.
any1 in germany(or anywhere) able to withdraw from tilt?
What method did you use at Stars? I used direct bank transfer. Should i cancel and try moneybookers?? Im so lost!
On April 16 2011 00:53 zodion wrote:
finally was able to cashout on stars, still no luck on fulltilt.
any1 in germany(or anywhere) able to withdraw from tilt?
What method did you use at Stars? I used direct bank transfer. Should i cancel and try moneybookers?? Im so lost!
hm used bank transfer too, why would u want to cancel it? lets just hope money arrives
and of course the vegas casinos will do everything in their power to get rid of these online pokersites by using the media thereby causing something like a bank run. typical...
Contact Users: 1672 Active, 2 Logged in - Time: 15:55
Brasil. Apr 15 2011 14:09. Posts 5230
as soon as I wake up how fun. Anyone want FTP for cash? --;
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